rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

reply to post by ThePawnsTheory


Most rape cases don't make it to court because it's her word against his word and she doesn't want to go through the trauma of a trial.

I am not talking about court cases, but what is called "rape" and how so many women put themselves into that situation. Most rape is not stranger rape. Most molestation is not stranger molestation. I don't leave my girls alone with any man except their father. I wonder how many women on ATS if they could share their story anonymously would account of their bad experiences and admit they put themselves into harms way. It was terrible what happened, but had they not done X then the rape would not have occurred.

I bet they don't do it again.

theHattersfolly
reply to post by taoistguy

 

But the whole concept of "Teach men not to rape" is silly and would be wasted effort. Not to mention it debases an entire gender. It is sexism. I'm all for awareness on this issue but, I cannot and will not endorse a slogan or concept that at its core is sexism.

We should also teach white people not to say racial slurs while we're at it. At the heart of it that's probably "racism"(... or wait, what's that term that's just as racist, "reverse racism"...yeah, that's it) to you too, huh?

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


You essentially just said "women put themselves in harms way by being around men." You won't even let your daughters be around men. They shouldn't have to worry about putting themselves in that situation. Men shouldn't rape.

reply to post by taoistguy


You think a catchy slogan is going to stop a criminal intent on harming women? Why don't we just post "don't rob people" or "don't kill people"..... I think honest people won't and criminals don't give a damn.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

What was the situation? Was she stranger raped or did she know them? I will say that a lot of women put themselves in bad spots. Should it happen? No it should not, but I am not going to paint myself with honey and lay down near an ant pile either.

Like I said, we were shocked in my college when 85% of the men answered they would rape their date if they knew with 100% certainty they would get way with it. That said a lot more about morality than most wanted to believe and this was back in 1986, so is it better or worse now? Why are 1:3 girls sexually molested in some fashion?

Too many men seem to think if they can get away with it they will. I think sexualizing young girls is very bad. Look at our society. Look at advertizing. Look at little girl pageants making them up like women and having them prance around and then look at the immense child porn industry. We live in a hedonistic world and it's showing in the worst possibly ways, and telling men not to rape is a bit of a joke. I'll avoid bad areas, I will protect myself, and I am much less likely to ever be a victim.

Agreed, the overall 'culture' is bizarre and messed up.
Yes, many women find themselves is dodgy situations cos they wear clothes that men consider that says 'rape me', so to speak. Fashion is a sick business reinforced by media, film and the music industry.
But regardless of what a woman wears, these men don't seem to have the intelligence to understand that clothing does not sanction rape.

And again, women who don't dress like that also get raped so really clothing is not that big a factor.

reply to post by ThePawnsTheory


I am a realist TPT. Why would I let my daughter go off with a man alone? Why? I used to live in a time and neighborhood where we never locked our doors, the kids all played together, and we literally ran in anyone's house to use the toilet cause our house was a block away. That time is LONGGGG past.

Men can be pigs with no sense of morality and that is from personal experience. Of course not all men are like that, but quite a few are, and if given the chance too many will try something with a girl. I prefer to not have to worry about it or have to help my daughter in rehab cause "friend x" molested her.

I will also point out if women making false accusations is not a problem, then why do most doctors always take a witness into a room with them when examining a woman? Maybe too many have experienced false accusations that could ruin their hard earned reputation.

taoistguy
But regardless of what a woman wears, these men don't seem to have the intelligence to understand that clothing does not sanction rape.

You think these type of men care?

Khaleesi

taoistguy

I don't see your point? Are you saying the school staff don't enforce school uniform?

What has this got to do with men who rape? Are you saying the kids are asking to be brutally raped???

I see a lot of school kids about town and my daughter only finished school about a year ago. Her school had a better discipline and school uniform policy and pupils tended to treat others and themselves with a more respectable/respectful attitude than the school you describe.

edit on 28-9-2013 by taoistguy because: (no reason given)

Unified Serenity may correct me if I'm wrong but, I think the point is society has sexualized children at a young age now. Why do young girls wear skimpy clothes? Maybe because they want the boys to WANT them? There seems to be some cognitive dissonance at play here. If a girl dresses provocatively, why do they dress that way? To get noticed? "I want the guys to see me as a sexual being, want to have sex with me but, I don't really want to have sex." So they get the guys all worked up. Kinda cruel if you ask me.

No. These are children. They dress like that because of all the 'role models' on tv. Then this is reinforced by peer pressure and wanting to fit in with their mates. It's a fashion fad. Just like sexualised clothes for little kiddies. It's social programming and peer pressure.

reply to post by taoistguy


I understand fully what it's about. I agree that more awareness on the topic is a good thing but by using this particular slogan you 1. Are being sexist 2. Are inviting intelligent confrontation to a topic that shouldn't get confrontation. 3. What's the old adage? Two wrongs don't make a right.

The statement is negative there is no denying it. Why not use a positive and gender neutral statement? "Rape is Wrong" "No means no". Truthfully, there is no gray area. There is nothing to be taught. Rape is a product of control and mental illness NOT some perversion of sexuality.

And to be completely clear, most of the feminists I know are disgusted by this slogan.

reply to post by taoistguy


And out of the programming, what do you think sick uncle ed's thoughts are when little missy sits on his lap after twerking for him and her relatives? My oh my, why is our society so sick? Because parents are not protecting their children and allowing this behavior. It's sick.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Men for the most part are awful. I know because I am one and often see my friends and aquaintences acting like barbarians who can't control theirselves. No, I do not think a slogan will stop it. I do think re-inforcing equality between men and women through TV and other media at an early age and the extinction of gender roles would help but I don't think it will ever be completely gone.

I think anyone should be able to dress how they want and not have to worry about it. I don't think it should be the case where women are putting themselves in harm's way just be being around men. The fault falls on the rapists not the victims.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

You think a catchy slogan is going to stop a criminal intent on harming women? Why don't we just post "don't rob people" or "don't kill people"..... I think honest people won't and criminals don't give a damn.

The slogan won't do a damned thing unless these men in general stop raping. Like I said before, the women have been trying for bloody ages to stop it and failing; So let's see if men can do any better?

taoistguy

No. These are children. They dress like that because of all the 'role models' on tv. Then this is reinforced by peer pressure and wanting to fit in with their mates. It's a fashion fad. Just like sexualised clothes for little kiddies. It's social programming and peer pressure.

Unified Serenity stated high school age. I look at High School and Elementary School age as quite different. Yes it is social programming and peer pressure but, at the age of High School most know more than I knew at their age. Most know what they are wearing is provocative. Give them credit for having some brains here. Why did my step-daughter try to wear a coat over skimpy clothes on a warm morning? Because she knew we wouldn't let her out of the house in that outfit. Where did she get the outfit? We didn't buy it. She borrowed her friends clothes. Most know what they are wearing is inappropriate and they know why it is inappropriate.

reply to post by ThePawnsTheory


en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

You seem to be unclear on the definitions of the word.

Targeting a group of people based on race is racism.

Targeting a group of people based on gender is sexism.

This is by no means rocket science my friend.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


"Rape" has become extremely broad.

It use to mean that a person is being forced into having sex against their will.

Now it means "I had sex with this dude, I wanted to at the time, looking back it was a bad decision...so he raped me." 90% of today's "rape" cases.

reply to post by ThePawnsTheory


I agree the fault for the crime is the one doing the act. Do you have children or a wife? If you saw your wife or daughter headed out dressed very provocatively and they said they were going to a party with 30 some odd men you did not know, you were not going to be there, and they were going to be drunker than a sailor on shore leave after 6 months at sea, would you feel good about it? Or would you want to try to stop them?

I mean, if they are old enough to do what they want, and don't want to use common sense, would you feel they were putting themselves in harms way? If you think they are putting themselves in danger, and they understand the danger, do they not bear some personal responsibility when you get the phone call to come to the ER cause they've been raped at a place you knew immoral men and rapists hang out?

I am not blaming them, I am talking about personal empowerment and taking responsibility for ones decisions and actions.

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

"Rape" has become extremely broad.

It use to mean that a person is being forced into having sex against their will.

Now it means "I had sex with this dude, I wanted to at the time, looking back it was a bad decision...so he raped me." 90% of today's "rape" cases.

So untrue. This is urban myth.
Anyhow, I gotta sleep.

reply to post by theHattersfolly


So, is it okay for white people (the majority) to say racial slurs? Is it okay for men (the most likely to commit said inhumanity) to rape? No. It is not. It's immoral and a privileged way to act. Why not try stopping it at the most common source?

Thanks for the Wikipedia links. I've heard of this site but always thought it was just a myth. Conspiracy busted, I guess. Thumbs up.

taoistguy

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

"Rape" has become extremely broad.

It use to mean that a person is being forced into having sex against their will.

Now it means "I had sex with this dude, I wanted to at the time, looking back it was a bad decision...so he raped me." 90% of today's "rape" cases.

So untrue. This is urban myth.

Not in the United States. It's the norm.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


That's a parenting decision and you do what you think is best. I'm not disputing that at all. I'm just saying men are the majority of the problem when it comes to rape and it's because the way the media and old-school-frame-of-mind elders perpetuate the myth of how men should act. If everyone were treated equal and not told how each gender should act then I think we'd see less of that macho, ego crap from males.