rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

Silly me, sitting here, hoping that men just somehow KNEW not to rape. But, being a victim of it myself, I know that's not really the case, so maybe they actually do need to teach it to them from a young age. Do.Not.Rape.

reply to post by Nyiah


May even end up needing an entirely new word for it, its already double booked

Its also diluting , the severity of it allows the use in emphasising the severity of something else, which lessens the severity of it.

In reality any substitute would simply replace the original unless it was hard to say or type, and in that case it will just get truncated.

I suppose you can dissuade through relevance, i.e. 'murder' while as severe in its meaning is relevant to use, as a virtual killing is pretty much what happens too. 'Rape' would be irrelevant as that is not what has happened virtually

I also once read a debate on a particularly shocking film (I chose not to watch, but I understand why it was made), that pointed out how rape and its consequences are almost glossed over in TV and films which makes it seem less serious too.

Its life destroying but all too often used as a simple plot device. I find that very disturbing.

reply to post by taoistguy


Don't think too hard about it. Just like the majority of the people who are thinking that this class will make any difference aren't thinking too hard. Like I have posted in another reply.. I think that the theory is good, but apparently the bleeding hearts who "just want everyone to get along" haven't thought about it too much. The only person that can stop the criminal from acting like a criminal (short of killing them) is the criminal themselves. Rape is a repeat offense crime... the people that rape are seriously messed up... no class will stop them from raping over an over again. I can be sarcastic about it in the same sense that someone can actually believe it will work. Rapists should be dealt with swiftly and thoroughly to be sure they can't repeat offend. No mercy for those who show no mercy.

Tidnabnilims
Would be nice to stop the use of 'rape' as an acceptable verb, especially with younger generations.

Its all too common to hear 'You got raped in that match/game etc.', or such delightful constructs as 'Face Rape', or 'Rape Cage' within normal banter and gaming parlance. (Rape Cage got banned as a publicly viewable term of use in that game in the end).

Attributing any form of domination/superiority in an acceptable situation as a 'rape' reduces the impact and thus the significance of its actual meaning leading to actual rape being considered less serious than it is, and even associated with being a good thing as the 'rapist/s' are the victors in those terms.

Language is a powerful behavioural modifier, especially in a growing mind.

edit on 28-9-2013 by Tidnabnilims because: explainy stuff

edit on 28-9-2013 by Tidnabnilims because: clarity

I'd like to see any evidence that this is actually a problem. I certainly think you might be being a little sensational about words on this. I mean, I play video games from time to time and I'll use the phrases that contain the word "rape"; it certainly doesn't desensitize me to some notion that rape is okay.

I mean, how long have we been saying "She murdered that song", "He butchered that article", "He stole the show". Is there lineage between these and an increase in homocide an theft? I'm doubtful about it.

Kinda seems like one of those bad "Kids these days" complaints that the older generations are just as guilty of.

Had to take a humanities class a few years back, thought I'd take this women studies class. I discovered rape wasn 't just chunking a woman on the ground and forcing myself on her. Nope, rape also covered things I'd never considered. Like buying a woman dinner and giving her flowers. That's rape, because she might feel obligated. Taking her somewhere nice, a cruise or even a movie? Rape. If she says she wants sex and you think it's true as far as you can tell, but she doesn't although she only thinks it and doesn't say no: rape.

If she has sex with you and seems to be a happily willing partner, but afterwards decides she shouldn 't have: rape.

Even watching a movie that objectifies sex is contributing to rape. The example they gave was the latest 007 movie.

In fact there. were so many ways you could rape a woman and never have a clue it seemed better to just become a monk. Not withstanding the telling argument that all sex was rape because it involved penetration at any rate.

And it seemed the rape stats we were given in the class had been adjusted to account for all the cases where the woman might not have known flowers were rape tools.

It was quite enlightening.

reply to post by LightOrange


Words are powerful, but not really that powerful I don't think. My core values were instilled in me, not only through words, but through my parents, and my close extended family leading by example as well. Boys without positive male role models never seemed to fully grow up at all to me. Just my opinion and observation of my journey through this life.

When you use the term "Teaching men not to rape" Im sure most of you first imagine a room full of blokes being told the absolute obvious and i can understand where the anger and disbelief comes from.

However, consider "Teaching men not to rape" as just changing societies social attitude's to sex/gratification. It wouldn't mean putting males in "classes" stating the obvious, but rather everyone being on the same page knowing that rape of any person is unacceptable, should be punished accordingly.

The one thing i hate about winter is that it gets dark early, waiting in town, walking home from my bus stop, i know am technically vulnerable and that's why i always walk very fast, even when im tired. If i got raped just walking home in the dark from work, they'red be some sick # who would place blame on me, i guarantee it.

Panic2k11
reply to post by Merlynn

 

One thing that should be kept in mind is that rape is also an evolutionary trait and sadly has a function (that is similar to that of other animals) as a species we would be in trouble if we managed to eliminate the capacity for it (the same can be said to many other "deviant" behaviors).

edit on 27-9-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

The evolutionary biological explanation for rape runs something like this:

Raising offspring consumes time and resources, and for men there is no guarantee that the child is your own offspring (hence cultural "mate guarding" practices). Thus, rape amounts to a "cheating" behavior; not in the sense of infidelity, but in the sense of violating the rules for your own advantage. You inseminate the victim without incurring any subsequent responsibility for rearing your offspring.

Hence, the type of man who would employ this tactic is likely to be predisposed to other "cheating" behaviors: lying, stealing, etc. Education/conditioning only goes so far with that type, but fortunately, they comprise a relatively small percentage of the population.

However, evolutionary biology only accounts for a portion of the problem: the rest has little to do with sexual frustration, and a lot more to do with entitlement, negative cultural stereotypes and misogyny. All of which can be addressed through education.

We could more constructively tackle the issue by reframing the approach. Swap in "Teach men that women are people with feelings and rights, and their own set of sexual needs" rather than "Teach men not to rape".

The latter message is only going to aggravate the problem, as is made vividly clear in the discourse on this thread.

reply to post by Eidolon23

Raising offspring consumes time and resources, and for men there is no guarantee that the child is your own offspring (hence cultural "mate guarding" practices). Thus, rape amounts to a "cheating" behavior; not in the sense of infidelity, but in the sense of violating the rules for your own advantage. You inseminate the victim without incurring any subsequent responsibility for rearing your offspring.

That is only one of the biological aspects (lets call all of it genetic dissemination imperative, and males are not unique nor those involved directly in procreation, all direct family contributes to the biological imperative of reproduction as they all have vested interests in doing so even if in many regards not even consciously aware of it). In a world of limited opportunities (or artificially limited by our "civilized" society) there are many paths that build what I defined as sexual frustration (and today since women have in general equal opportunities, it affects both sexes even if differently, since only women can bare children the balance of power has shifted to the feminine or matriarchal structure of society). Reproduction is how genes have an chance for immortality...

Hence, the type of man who would employ this tactic is likely to be predisposed to other "cheating" behaviors: lying, stealing, etc. Education/conditioning only goes so far with that type, but fortunately, they comprise a relatively small percentage of the population.

I disagree, all men are cheaters by evolutionary reasons and sexual biology what prevents some males from cheating is culture (moral indoctrination and society or religious dogmas) even so the imperative is always present if faced with the chance and a guarantee of no repercussions a very small number of males would remain monogamous even more so if they had not successfully reproduced previously. I'm certain that you are aware that the male brain changes after their offspring is born, the imperative then shifts in large part to the protection of that offspring...

However, evolutionary biology only accounts for a portion of the problem: the rest has little to do with sexual frustration, and a lot more to do with entitlement, negative cultural stereotypes and misogyny. All of which can be addressed through education.

Culture goes both ways, as a restrain or a promoter of actions. Education however can not change biologic imperatives only an evolutionary process and as I said as a species we would be worst of by pruning out that side of human nature (even if it disgusts us in our present societal paradigm. In a upside world or a world that life expectancy decreases extremely it may be argued that it would be in the species interest to increase reproduction ratios by all means possible, it could even become something acceptable (hard to imagine in todays society but possible). Even a shift towards a matriarchal structure would change some of the taboos, there were some claims that males are due to extinction (non conclusive as I remember) but if we add technology to the mixture a possibility.

We could more constructively tackle the issue by reframing the approach. Swap in "Teach men that women are people with feelings and rights, and their own set of sexual needs" rather than "Teach men not to rape".

I have no issue with the teaching but as many have said before this is something that is already done in part. I see no benefit in bringing the state or even religions or outsiders into something that should be done by parents especially the mother. Respect for women is something that can easy be transmitted by mother to son, that it is not prevalent speaks volumes on how women relate to males even their own children and the level of social acculturation that is transmitted.

I think that women have become very cynical in regards to the understanding regarding their power over males (especially if they had a father figure), in how they behave, let or use society freedoms to appeal to the sexual interests of males. To a point there is something to be said about womanhood having some blame on the status quo by exacerbating their signals of sexual disponibility (from makeup, behaviors and how they care for their image) they clearly understand what they are doing and even if subconsciously the objective is only one. Society has not all the blame as women are part of society, especially today...

reply to post by LightOrange


Well like I said, the negative opinion in one case was enough to ban the term in one game. So I guess I'm not alone in thinking this.

While you may not have been desensitised to it, as I'm sure most psychologically balanced people do not either, how about those who have or would become desensitised ? Is it OK to enable that furthur ? Do you speak for all psychologies ?

Prevention > Cure no ?

Try substituting 'rape' for those words, still seem relevant ?

She seriously sexually assaulted that song, he seriously sexually assaulted that article. he seriously sexually assaulted that show.

At least the words you picked are relevant to the context of the sentence and make sense within its meaning, rape doesnt fit however except when used outside of meaning.

I'm a little disappointed that language is seen as not particularly important in psychological development here.

It is.

reply to post by Tidnabnilims





I so agree with what you say ... I have teen's around and was appalled when I

first heard the expression face book rape. But then should that be a surprise?

when swear words are bandied about instead of adjectives! It seems that

language is going even further 'down hill' now with the texting shortcuts used

these days.

reply to post by eletheia


I have little issue with how language evolves in general, but some specific cases (like this) the negative impact of switching the terms for victory with those of a serious and not relevant crime on a developing psyche warrants some attention.

Its the out of context association without relevance that reinforces that winning = raping. How can that not effect a growing mind with no other grounding?

The issue is also partly one of inappropriate use of R/18 rated games and films by lesser age groups. Ratings exist for a reason. Not all children have the benefit of a balanced psychosocial upbringing and exposure to adult material can seriously and negatively alter the direction of that development where those other balances are not in place or sub-standard.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


That's an entirely ludicrous concept.

I do not need to be taught not to rape women.

Anyone who would need to be taught that concept is already a deraged sociopath.

Who thinks of this crap?

Society did this to itself. All the ways of old were broken down and removed, one by one. And for what? Are we not living in the utopian paradise promised with all the change that's came about?

Every time something else gets changed we are told it's "progress". I grew up in an old fashioned, middle class, suburb, rape was a term seldom heard. Now I live in what is essentially a ghetto and I can't remember the last time I walked down the street and didn't see pimps, prostitutes, dealers. Rape and murder are rampant, hell they're downright expected nowadays.

Blaming "men" in general is a copout for the failed experiment that is modern society. We ALL can stand to have our moral compasses readjusted I think.

reply to post by wingsfan


Just to clarify, do you mean you moved from suburb to ghetto, or that suburb became ghetto ?
I do agree with you that society has laxed in some areas.

Tidnabnilims
reply to post by wingsfan

 

Just to clarify, do you mean you moved from suburb to ghetto, or that suburb became ghetto ?
I do agree with you that society has laxed in some areas.

Where I live now became a ghetto. I'm a fairly tough guy I guess, the people don't bother me much, but it's very dangerous now for women to be going out. 10 years earlier this area was mostly seniors, still dirt roads around, and people rode their horses. Now gunshots and the sound of the ghetto bird will prevent you from getting a good nights sleep.

reply to post by wingsfan


Thanks for the clarification, it emphasises your point well.

Unballanced people do unballanced things. Thats why laws exist. But you cant really teach someone something that goes against their personality and upbringing. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses to make a long story short.

And women share the responsibility many times because they dress and act inappropriately. If you dont want attention then stop seeking it. Or the sexual harrassement lawsuits with barely any substance. Someone has a grudge against their boss and they want to slander him.

Feminist topics and their pov are somewhat amusing.

kdyam
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Don't think too hard about it. Just like the majority of the people who are thinking that this class will make any difference aren't thinking too hard. Like I have posted in another reply.. I think that the theory is good, but apparently the bleeding hearts who "just want everyone to get along" haven't thought about it too much. The only person that can stop the criminal from acting like a criminal (short of killing them) is the criminal themselves. Rape is a repeat offense crime... the people that rape are seriously messed up... no class will stop them from raping over an over again. I can be sarcastic about it in the same sense that someone can actually believe it will work. Rapists should be dealt with swiftly and thoroughly to be sure they can't repeat offend. No mercy for those who show no mercy.

"This class".

You are missing the point.

Here's what people are missing here. Women are taught to think about how not to get raped every single day of their lives. That is what rape prevention is. It is the idea that a person should consider EVERYTHING they do, every day, and how it 'invites' a rapist.

Men are told "rape is bad" and thats that.

See the difference?

Perhaps if men were taught to think about it, every day, just like women, less would do it.

Either way, I still find it downright disgusting that people are okay with rape and rape culture, and believe the current course is just fine.

Downright pathetic.