rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

UnifiedSerenity
So, would you think this is appropriate for school? Now granted some of these images are not at a school, but I have seen exactly this sort of attire at some high schools:

my-funspace.com...

acidcow.com...



So, put them at a party, twerking and grinding and they are suddenly surprised when a boy thinks they want sex? Granted, she should be able to be left alone, but I won't let my girls dress like this, and they are well aware of what putting oneself into a compromising situation could cause. Some of you seem to think the world will change, and yet I know all the positive thinking and beliefs won't change the fact that many of these girls who do this will find themselves in trouble and yell they are victims without taking one iota of responsibility for putting themselves into the situation that allowed it to happen.

Welcome to the Varsity twerking team

rlv.zcache.com...

edit on 28-9-2013 by UnifiedSerenity because: bad link went to inappropriate site.. my apologies

Those images are not of kids at a school. And what you describe next is wanting to imagine them at a party doing what you say.

The rule is: YES MEANS YES AND NO MEANS NO.
It can't be more simpler.
No matter how they dress or how sexually 'provocative' they behave, you do not rape and anyone who does is a piece of scum.

taoistguy

luciddream
reply to post by taoistguy

 

It was a rebuttal for assuming "men normally rape" because "teach men not to rape" is essentially saying the same thing.. and it is one of the top phrase feminist use.

So i said they should be appreciative of what i did because i didn't rape them like they claim a man would.

In general, men rape. The number of reported, (meaning this does not include all the unreported rapes), rapes is staggeringly huge. Not to mention failed and attempted rapes, non-rape sexual abuse aloso.
I think the feminists have a very valid point.

Are we also going to teach women to not claim rape when it didn't happen?

There have been studies done that show that false rape claims account for anywhere from 2% (the number commonly tossed out by feminist groups) to 50% - 60% as noted Here

It works both ways. There are plenty of women out there that have gotten men put in prison for rape based almost solely on the fact that they are women and the accused did nothing more than having been born a man, and she said he did it.

taoistguy
reply to post by oblvion

 

I take it back. I don't wish more men were like you.
God help women: for wearing and behaving in a way that people like you label them as a slut and imply they deserve to be raped.

Men can't control themselves???
Sheesh. :\

You must be the most conservative man I have ever met. In fact your post about women walking down the street completly naked takes the cake. No one is saying anyone deserves to get raped, they are saying some women act like magnets with their all around provocative behavior, and thus stand a higher probability of getting abused/raped.

If you still dont get it then I give up. I really do. I think I am going to avoid these emotionaly charged, irrational threads from now on. Too many bad faith assumptions and name calling going on!

ProfessorChaos

taoistguy

luciddream
reply to post by taoistguy

 

It was a rebuttal for assuming "men normally rape" because "teach men not to rape" is essentially saying the same thing.. and it is one of the top phrase feminist use.

So i said they should be appreciative of what i did because i didn't rape them like they claim a man would.

In general, men rape. The number of reported, (meaning this does not include all the unreported rapes), rapes is staggeringly huge. Not to mention failed and attempted rapes, non-rape sexual abuse aloso.
I think the feminists have a very valid point.

Are we also going to teach women to not claim rape when it didn't happen?

There have been studies done that show that false rape claims account for anywhere from 2% (the number commonly tossed out by feminist groups) to 50% - 60% as noted Here

It works both ways. There are plenty of women out there that have gotten men put in prison for rape based almost solely on the fact that they are women and the accused did nothing more than having been born a man, and she said he did it.

I think teaching women that would be good. However, I think teaching men not to rape in the sense that has ben explained time and time agin in this thread takes precedence regardless of the dubious figures mentioned in the article you posted. If it was that high then most of us would either know a man who has been falsely accused or be one ourself if you are a man.

And I beg to differ that being raped and being falsely accused are comparable. If I have to explain that sentence then I suggest therapy for whoever asks me to explain it.

What this entire thread breaks down to (in my opinion), is that there is a severe deficiency of morality in our society (for men and for women), and to be honest, I don't see that issue being resolved any time soon.

taoistguy

ProfessorChaos

taoistguy

luciddream
reply to post by taoistguy

 

It was a rebuttal for assuming "men normally rape" because "teach men not to rape" is essentially saying the same thing.. and it is one of the top phrase feminist use.

So i said they should be appreciative of what i did because i didn't rape them like they claim a man would.

In general, men rape. The number of reported, (meaning this does not include all the unreported rapes), rapes is staggeringly huge. Not to mention failed and attempted rapes, non-rape sexual abuse aloso.
I think the feminists have a very valid point.

Are we also going to teach women to not claim rape when it didn't happen?

There have been studies done that show that false rape claims account for anywhere from 2% (the number commonly tossed out by feminist groups) to 50% - 60% as noted Here

It works both ways. There are plenty of women out there that have gotten men put in prison for rape based almost solely on the fact that they are women and the accused did nothing more than having been born a man, and she said he did it.

And I beg to differ that being raped and being falsely accused are comparable. If I have to explain that sentence then I suggest therapy for whoever asks me to explain it.

So being raped and having been incarcerated on false charges are not both life altering events?

As for your remark about the website being dubious, I doubt you even read the article, since they themselves did not conduct the studies, there were several referenced that were conducted by sociologists, including one by Linda Fairstein, who headed the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit, in which she states that "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen." - so the New York county D.A.'s office is dubious?

I made an attempt to engage you honestly, and gave source material, yet you disregard it out of hand, and I would imagine that that is because the numbers don't fit your argument.

I guess you really can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

reply to post by taoistguy


When was the last time you went to a high school? I drop off my two teenager daughters at one regularly and this is exactly the sort of clothes some of the girls are wearing, and it's not 1 or 2, but quite a few. They dress like sluts, twerk during breaks, and their culture at school is very sexual. I do love one one sorority sister (virgin) of mine said once to a girl teasing her.

"I can become like you anytime I want, but you can never, ever become like me."

taoistguy It's problematic that rape is treated differently in different places. I guess this is why a lot of men are confused and need a bit of education.

I'm a woman and apparently I do too, since we have here an entire thread evidencing all the many different definitions of rape, as well as definitions of endangerment (which matter to legal trials of rape).

EarthCitizen07

You must be the most conservative man I have ever met. In fact your post about women walking down the street completly naked takes the cake. No one is saying anyone deserves to get raped, they are saying some women act like magnets with their all around provocative behavior, and thus stand a higher probability of getting abused/raped.

If you still dont get it then I give up. I really do. I think I am going to avoid these emotionaly charged, irrational threads from now on. Too many bad faith assumptions and name calling going on!

I agree with you. I have avoided commenting on this thread for quite a while but, here goes. No one deserves to be raped, no matter what they are doing or how they are dressed. That being said, young women need to use some common sense. If I moved to a new town and people told me "Don't go to this area of town, especially after dark. Lots of muggings happen there." I would take their advice. Likewise, I really hope my step-daughters take my advice and don't go to frat parties and drink from open containers. It's called being careful. Think about what you are doing and how to keep yourself safe. Understand that men tend to be larger and stronger so don't give them an even greater chance.

ProfessorChaos

taoistguy

ProfessorChaos

taoistguy

luciddream
reply to post by taoistguy

 

It was a rebuttal for assuming "men normally rape" because "teach men not to rape" is essentially saying the same thing.. and it is one of the top phrase feminist use.

So i said they should be appreciative of what i did because i didn't rape them like they claim a man would.

In general, men rape. The number of reported, (meaning this does not include all the unreported rapes), rapes is staggeringly huge. Not to mention failed and attempted rapes, non-rape sexual abuse aloso.
I think the feminists have a very valid point.

Are we also going to teach women to not claim rape when it didn't happen?

There have been studies done that show that false rape claims account for anywhere from 2% (the number commonly tossed out by feminist groups) to 50% - 60% as noted Here

It works both ways. There are plenty of women out there that have gotten men put in prison for rape based almost solely on the fact that they are women and the accused did nothing more than having been born a man, and she said he did it.

And I beg to differ that being raped and being falsely accused are comparable. If I have to explain that sentence then I suggest therapy for whoever asks me to explain it.

So being raped and having been incarcerated on false charges are not both life altering events?

As for your remark about the website being dubious, I doubt you even read the article, since they themselves did not conduct the studies, there were several referenced that were conducted by sociologists, including one by Linda Fairstein, who headed the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit, in which she states that "there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen." - so the New York county D.A.'s office is dubious?

I made an attempt to engage you honestly, and gave source material, yet you disregard it out of hand, and I would imagine that that is because the numbers don't fit your argument.

I guess you really can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

edit on 9/28/2013 by ProfessorChaos because: typo - changed being to been in first sentence

Is being raped and being accused of rape different? Hmmm...Ask a rape survivor what it was like and how it has affected her.

And you are wrong, I read the article.

We can all post articles...Here's mine:
Crying Rape

I wonder if you will read it?
And if you do, if you say the Crown Prosecution Service is dubious?

Newly Added:
I never said being accused is not life changing, I said being raped is worse (especially gang rape and even further 'sexual torture' during the rape.) Stop putting words in my mouth and distorting what I said,

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

When was the last time you went to a high school? I drop off my two teenager daughters at one regularly and this is exactly the sort of clothes some of the girls are wearing, and it's not 1 or 2, but quite a few. They dress like sluts, twerk during breaks, and their culture at school is very sexual. I do love one one sorority sister (virgin) of mine said once to a girl teasing her.

"I can become like you anytime I want, but you can never, ever become like me."

I don't see your point? Are you saying the school staff don't enforce school uniform?

What has this got to do with men who rape? Are you saying the kids are asking to be brutally raped???

I see a lot of school kids about town and my daughter only finished school about a year ago. Her school had a better discipline and school uniform policy and pupils tended to treat others and themselves with a more respectable/respectful attitude than the school you describe.

Threads that deal with overall morals on this site never cease to let me down. It becomes more and more clear that a lot of your thoughts on what "equality" is and what is right or wrong is skewed and dark. Is this to do with the conspiracist paranoia you've surrounded yourself with or just a need to argue? Overall, men rape more. No one should rape. Even if someone dresses provacatively and likes sex, it DOES NOT give anyone a right to rape them. Even if those EVIL "feminists" say don't rape, hey! Don't rape! Hey dare these women encroach on my manhood with their rights! My gender role is Alpha! I. Am. Man. Oh yeah, and I feel entitled to everything. Man. Rise above.

reply to post by taoistguy


Girls wear short shorts, tight shirts, tight pants and some students will get sent home, but others won't because it's "discrimination". What I am saying is if these girls are going to dress like this, twerk and act like sluts, they might find that some guys think they want it, and some might and some might not. How is the guy to know really? We are not talking brutal stranger rape with a gun or knife to her throat, but a very possibly young man who could be engaging in consensual sex as far as he knows and she regrets it later for some reason and says he raped her. Maybe it was a little bit late in the coitus and he didn't stop as fast as she wanted. At what point does she bear some of the burden of having gotten herself into this situation. This thread is about "teaching men not to rape", well how about teaching women not to be sluts or act like whores?

Yes, there is a double standard. If a woman wants to be treated with respect then maybe she should act like a respectable woman and not some pole dancing slut.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Girls wear short shorts, tight shirts, tight pants and some students will get sent home, but others won't because it's "discrimination". What I am saying is if these girls are going to dress like this, twerk and act like sluts, they might find that some guys think they want it, and some might and some might not. How is the guy to know really? We are not talking brutal stranger rape with a gun or knife to her throat, but a very possibly young man who could be engaging in consensual sex as far as he knows and she regrets it later for some reason and says he raped her. Maybe it was a little bit late in the coitus and he didn't stop as fast as she wanted. At what point does she bear some of the burden of having gotten herself into this situation. This thread is about "teaching men not to rape", well how about teaching women not to be sluts or act like whores?

Yes, there is a double standard. If a woman wants to be treated with respect then maybe she should act like a respectable woman and not some pole dancing slut.

I won't go into all the issues in your post, those have been discussed in the previous posts you failed to read or did not grasp.

But my question to you is: How do you explain all the rapes of women, (or men), who were not dressed in a way you would label as 'slut'?

ThePawnsTheory
Threads that deal with overall morals on this site never cease to let me down. It becomes more and more clear that a lot of your thoughts on what "equality" is and what is right or wrong is skewed and dark. Is this to do with the conspiracist paranoia you've surrounded yourself with or just a need to argue? Overall, men rape more. No one should rape. Even if someone dresses provacatively and likes sex, it DOES NOT give anyone a right to rape them. Even if those EVIL "feminists" say don't rape, hey! Don't rape! Hey dare these women encroach on my manhood with their rights! My gender role is Alpha! I. Am. Man. Oh yeah, and I feel entitled to everything. Man. Rise above.

Ok, so it's been said for millenia now "DO NOT RAPE" and guess what? Men rape women! Wow, that is a newsflash I tell ya!

Show me anywhere in society where it's a general idea that rape is ok. My issue is with the very gray area of date / relationship sex that someone misunderstands and then accuses the other of rape. Men are told we are supposedly in a new age when # buddies are the norm, and yet how is he to know if she is not going to say he raped her? At what point is it rape if it started out consensual. You all want to treat women like we are some virginal sheltered beings who somehow just get in the clutches of these brutes when it has been my personal experience that a LOT of women put themselves in very very bad circumstances and then cry "victim". Some strong feminist way of being... no self responsibility. Burn my bra, prance around anyway I want, and rub up against any man I want, but "How dare he touch me!"

Hypocritical stupid women is what comes to my mind.

reply to post by taoistguy


But the whole concept of "Teach men not to rape" is silly and would be wasted effort. Not to mention it debases an entire gender. It is sexism. I'm all for awareness on this issue but, I cannot and will not endorse a slogan or concept that at its core is sexism.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


You're dealing with a minority. There's always going to be a gray area to everything. that's why we have laws and a court system. If that were to work properly (and no, it doesn't always), justice would be served correctly if the man did not really rape the female.

reply to post by taoistguy


What was the situation? Was she stranger raped or did she know them? I will say that a lot of women put themselves in bad spots. Should it happen? No it should not, but I am not going to paint myself with honey and lay down near an ant pile either.

Like I said, we were shocked in my college when 85% of the men answered they would rape their date if they knew with 100% certainty they would get way with it. That said a lot more about morality than most wanted to believe and this was back in 1986, so is it better or worse now? Why are 1:3 girls sexually molested in some fashion?

Too many men seem to think if they can get away with it they will. I think sexualizing young girls is very bad. Look at our society. Look at advertizing. Look at little girl pageants making them up like women and having them prance around and then look at the immense child porn industry. We live in a hedonistic world and it's showing in the worst possibly ways, and telling men not to rape is a bit of a joke. I'll avoid bad areas, I will protect myself, and I am much less likely to ever be a victim.

taoistguy

I don't see your point? Are you saying the school staff don't enforce school uniform?

What has this got to do with men who rape? Are you saying the kids are asking to be brutally raped???

I see a lot of school kids about town and my daughter only finished school about a year ago. Her school had a better discipline and school uniform policy and pupils tended to treat others and themselves with a more respectable/respectful attitude than the school you describe.

edit on 28-9-2013 by taoistguy because: (no reason given)

Unified Serenity may correct me if I'm wrong but, I think the point is society has sexualized children at a young age now. Why do young girls wear skimpy clothes? Maybe because they want the boys to WANT them? There seems to be some cognitive dissonance at play here. If a girl dresses provocatively, why do they dress that way? To get noticed? "I want the guys to see me as a sexual being, want to have sex with me but, I don't really want to have sex." So they get the guys all worked up. Kinda cruel if you ask me.

theHattersfolly
reply to post by taoistguy

 

But the whole concept of "Teach men not to rape" is silly and would be wasted effort. Not to mention it debases an entire gender. It is sexism. I'm all for awareness on this issue but, I cannot and will not endorse a slogan or concept that at its core is sexism.

You still miss the point of what the slogan is about and what prompts it. Maybe it's too deep for some people?
Read the thread or you are seeing only a snapshot.