rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

UnifiedSerenity

captaintyinknots
So, youve never heard a woman being told that they should not dress a certain way, or act a ertain way, because it invites rape? Thats called victim blame my friend. The idea that women should prevent themselves from being raped is blaming the victim.

'pro-victim'? Are you kidding me? Are you 'anti-victim'?

Just asinine.

So, if your 16 year old wears hoochy clothes is grinding all over my 18 year old son, slipping her hand down his pants and riding him like the pony express and as they start to get it on she feels some guilt and screams rape, that makes him a rapist?

Yeah, right.

What???
"hoochy clothes"?
"grinding all over"?
"riding him..."?

This is a very bizarre scenario.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Dude are you for real? Why do you purposefully misinterpret everything people say to you?

You obviously lack real world experience or specialise in trolling.

I am out!

I'm gonna play both sides and then leave.

The 'teaching men not to rape' concept started off with some half decent intentions and goals but has been poorly communicated over the last ten years. There are a number of incidents where some men such as George Galloway would call it 'bad bedroom etiquette' and Cosmopolitan would call it 'grey rape' when mostly its just a form of rape (albeit not the hiding in the bushes with a ski mask kind).

In several Western countries a lack of consent, even after an initial consent, is classified as a rape offense now. Forms of coercion are also now classified as rape. So there is meant to be some form of education about that, for example encouraging men not to let their friends take home drunk people whilst drunk. Reminders that just because a woman doesn't speak doesn't always mean 'yes'. Pointing out that pressuring a woman into sex via social intimidation is illegal also in many places ...

Unfortunately, I don't think most men were involved in that discussion, and I don't know how other people feel about it but I'm guessing the 'be a REAL man and DON'T rape!' adverts are mega patronizing to just about everyone, and also totally lacking in useful information or compassion for the male condition.

Honest question to ATS men: I mean was anyone aware that the adverts were to try and highlight risk situations and alleged 'grey' areas as opposed to asking men not wear ski masks and prowl in back gardens?

captaintyinknots
on average, 89,000 rapes occur annually, just in the us. When 16% of women will be victimized in their life. These numbers dont even include child sexual abuse. I find it insulting that ANYONE is ok with that.

Which also leads into this ... I agree, this is unacceptable, but these numbers aren't climbing.

The Western definition of 'rape' has expanded, and vast campaigns encouraging rapes being reported have been run. Despite this, if you take a close look at the statistics, rape, spousal abuse (against men and women) and many other forms of violence have been on a decline in the western world for several decades. I've found it quite confronting myself as a feminist over the last few years. I believe the empowerment of women has contributed aggressively to this decline, but I also believe there are a lot of people that can't separate the multiple meanings of the word 'rape' on both sides of the fence, and that's a huge freaking problem.

The word itself feels like I'm stabbing a blunt knife into my eye ball, so how is anyone meant to have a mature conversation about it when being accused or blamed for it by proxy? The great thing about this sentence is you can apply it to everyone in the thread.

Anyway, we've made more progress than people think. We should totally acknowledge that, and we need to come up with ways to discuss it that are less alarmist, more honest, and not as clumsy.

EarthCitizen07

There's that word again. We are discussing attitudes to rape and suddenly, its a "feminist" topic. I think THATS amusing.


Because feminists tend to make all rape cases black and white. Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not.

Im not disputing that they do or dont, im just saying your dragging the feminist argument into this and then trying to make out like its a feminist topic while slandering feminism. Are you so desperate cast feminism in a bad light you mention it on a thread that is nothing to do with feminism?

Thats why cases go to court and the jury or judge determines the verdict.

If you are a women whom is rightfully concerned about getting raped, then its best to error on the conservative side. It prevents people from getting a mixed "yes-no" message!

Best to be conservative? Best to act like a "lady" then, because if you dont, bad things happen?

I hope you're joking.

captaintyinknots

UnifiedSerenity

captaintyinknots
So, youve never heard a woman being told that they should not dress a certain way, or act a ertain way, because it invites rape? Thats called victim blame my friend. The idea that women should prevent themselves from being raped is blaming the victim.

'pro-victim'? Are you kidding me? Are you 'anti-victim'?

Just asinine.

So, if your 16 year old wears hoochy clothes is grinding all over my 18 year old son, slipping her hand down his pants and riding him like the pony express and as they start to get it on she feels some guilt and screams rape, that makes him a rapist?

Yeah, right.

If she tries to stop, or says no at any point, then yes it is. There is no way around it. Throw on top of that that your 18 year old son, in most states, would already be guilty of statutory rape, whether she said no or not.

Sounds like you support the idea of 'she asked for it'. Victim blame, friend. No means no, even if it comes mid-coitus. Get it?

It is truly scary to me that there are people who think its not, and some of you are prime examples of people who need this education being discussed in this thread.

edit on 28-9-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

Actually, most states have a two year window, but let's make my son 17 as an example, not real case mind you..... Lot's of girls do push the envelop of intimacy and feel guilty afterwards... then say they said no when they didn't. Do you deny women falsify rape issues? I'm just saying that women should not be surprised when they get raped and it is rape if she does say no, but she is setting herself up to be a victim. Not all men are respectful of women no matter how they act, and women should understand the positions they put themselves in.

I had a rule to NEVER go to a man's college dorm room alone. I had more than a few sorority sisters share stories of rape because they trusted the young man. They'd known him for 3 years, thought they were friends, and made the mistake of going to his bedroom (dorm room) with him and he assumed they wanted sex. Again, avoid the near occasion of disaster and you won't fall prey to it usually. Most women cannot overpower a man, and that is why I have trained my girls to not put themselves into danger, to know how to use a gun and when they are old enough, they will each have one in their own homes.

I am a realist and not an idealist. I would love the world to be perfect, but it's not, and women need to take some responsibility for their own predicaments. Sort of reminds me of Whoopi Goldberg in Jumping jack flash when she says, "Why don't you slap a $100 bill on my ass and should "victim here"" when she was stuck in some ghetto neighborhood.

reply to post by Pinke


Being a realist is now considered conding rape. I believe both men and women are responsible for their actions, not just men. If a women acts provocatively all around and an unballanced individual gets the wrong message that is when rape tends to happen. Both are at fault. I am not playing any victim card. Its reality!

And the final decision happens in the court room. Not on ATS or on msm. All this sensationalising of rape is just as disgusting as rape itself.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


It is no good teaching men not to rape. It misses the point. As a species we are loosing empathy we naturally have to each other and other species. We are being being desensitised to our feeling as human beings..

If women really want to teach men something, then they should delve into their own areas of expertise and teach us how to do the washing up.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I am sorry, but women who dress and act provocatively share some of the blame if they get raped

That is a wrong way of looking at things. A women should have the right to walk down the road naked if she wants. That does not mean she deserves to be a rape victim.

purplemer
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I am sorry, but women who dress and act provocatively share some of the blame if they get raped

That is a wrong way of looking at things. A women should have the right to walk down the road naked if she wants. That does not mean she deserves to be a rape victim.

Why?

If a man walked down the road naked, he'd be arrested as a pervert and a flasher.

Personally, i'd like to see everyone keep their clothes on. After a long day, the last thing i want to see is some-ones dangly bits.

Scorchio
If women really want to teach men something, then they should delve into their own areas of expertise and teach us how to do the washing up.

Every now and then something so random, stupid and utterly pointless gets posted on this site, that i can only burst out laughing because of how unexpected it was.

If you cant sit there and logically work out how to wash up a few dishes, it makes me wonder, are you a big enough boy to take yourself to the toilet when you need to pee?

taoistguy


What???
"hoochy clothes"?
"grinding all over"?
"riding him..."?

This is a very bizarre scenario.

I guess you have not seen what girls wear to high school or parties or how they act. Do a little research.

purplemer
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I am sorry, but women who dress and act provocatively share some of the blame if they get raped

That is a wrong way of looking at things. A women should have the right to walk down the road naked if she wants. That does not mean she deserves to be a rape victim.

No its not. Men are men and women are women. Only in the west is rape sensationalised! You would think its worst than murder just by reading some posts in this thread.

BOTH men and women share responsibility for their actions.

And the women would be arrested for indecent exposure which is a misdeamenor, just like a man would!

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Dude are you for real? Why do you purposefully misinterpret everything people say to you?

You obviously lack real world experience or specialise in trolling.

I am out!

standard reply by those who can't counter an argument

UnifiedSerenity

taoistguy


What???
"hoochy clothes"?
"grinding all over"?
"riding him..."?

This is a very bizarre scenario.

I guess you have not seen what girls wear to high school or parties or how they act. Do a little research.

Well, I've been around long enough to have seen such parties. It's just my way of thinking about them and describing them would be different in my terminology.
Makes it seem like she is raping him and not the victim herself.

"Damn that loose girl in slutty clothes. She is asking to be raped by saying no when he jumps on her, rips her clothes off and tries to penetrate her. That poor boy." :\

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I'm only too glad to provide some entertainment.

Seriously though, the concept that all men are rapists and need to be taught not to rape is laughable. I see it as a complete lack of self control and discipline, probably stemming from a young age. Call it poor parenting or the failings of modern day society but that applies to both sexes. It's an individual problem and not a gender problem.

Scorchio
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I'm only too glad to provide some entertainment.

Seriously though, the concept that all men are rapists and need to be taught not to rape is laughable. I see it as a complete lack of self control and discipline, probably stemming from a young age. Call it poor parenting or the failings of modern day society but that applies to both sexes. It's an individual problem and not a gender problem.

I will talk slowly - we are not saying all men are rapists; it's 'potential' rapists. There is a difference. do you not understand?

Women do not need to be taught not to rape becaus e they are mostly the victims.

But the concept of "teach men not to rape" is more than the words in the sentence: -- it means that we need to stop victimising rape survivors and stop contributing to the culture of rape. Men are the biological 'brothers/fathers/mates' of those other males who are raping and so need to bloody well do something about it because women have been trying for decades and have done as much as they can and have done their part. Women in general know about all this - it's the men who are lagging behind and continuing to rape and call women sluts.

You can't rape the willing..

Scorchio
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I'm only too glad to provide some entertainment.

Seriously though, the concept that all men are rapists and need to be taught not to rape is laughable. I see it as a complete lack of self control and discipline, probably stemming from a young age. Call it poor parenting or the failings of modern day society but that applies to both sexes. It's an individual problem and not a gender problem.

I agree that its wrong to label all men as potential rapist's but let me tell you, when im walking home in the dark and i see a man anywhere in the area, you bet your bottom dollar that just for a second, i consider how much of a threat he is to me.

SearchLightsInc

Scorchio
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I'm only too glad to provide some entertainment.

Seriously though, the concept that all men are rapists and need to be taught not to rape is laughable. I see it as a complete lack of self control and discipline, probably stemming from a young age. Call it poor parenting or the failings of modern day society but that applies to both sexes. It's an individual problem and not a gender problem.

I agree that its wrong to label all men as potential rapist's but let me tell you, when im walking home in the dark and i see a man anywhere in the area, you bet your bottom dollar that just for a second, i consider how much of a threat he is to me.

ESPECIALLY IF it is a BIG BLACK man!!!!