The Language of Vampyr

DP-2147 - Sapien, you started a thread on that one. Inspired by FL no less. I read it tonight. And coincidentally had an odd yearning to watch a few FL music videos. "Girlslack". I like the red ballet dancer track.

Back to what I'll just designate "DP-2147". It doesn't matter if a real object or not, just a study.

A warning: don't jump to conclusions from what I'm gonna say next. Personally I don't think it a good thing.

Returning to the "object". There is something in the tunnel behind the sphere. It is difficult to equate with anything I know except a "flower form". I may have posted a pick in this thread some time ago. Two sunflowers. In one the petals are yellow with a green centre. In the other the colours are reversed.

The two flower forms are the inversion of consciousness in a human when falling asleep and awakening. The colours have to change properly or we don't wake up or fall asleep properly.

Roughly 22 petals in a human, may vary. This thing has hundreds of petals. Too many to count. Not that it stays still long enough to count them.

Now this thing behind the object has that quality about it. It is inverting through the cycle at a very high rate. Too fast to follow. It also has length in a peculiar way. If one watches a moth flying in circles around an outdoor light, the eyes play a trick. One starts to see the moth as a trail of moths. Like frames in a movie. So many frames per second. One sees all the frames in a second separately. So the moth looks like a string of moths a meter (yard) long.

So the only thing I can make a comparison to us a very rapid cycling through the inversion of consciousness between awake and asleep in motion.

It reminds me in a feeling way of something from the Buddist/Hindu. "The thousand petal lotus". People would see/live what they think is "god" or "enlightenment" in there. I had a hunch it was so. No wonder the RVer got stuck in there.



I am fairly sure it's a machine.


Folks have probably noticed I have an unusual bias. I am not saying I am right and the opposite is wrong. Just saying.

I see "enlightenment" and similar things in terms of "bait". That comes from years of avoiding "treasure".

Maybe why I can go these places and walk away afterwards.

- - make what you will of that.

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

In Sapien's "DP-2147" thread, it was mentioned that Indigo Swann is said to have shut down a "quantum machine". That the human mind can do that sort of thing.

Well, maybe.

The sphere's AI can be altered.

Why alter the sphere's AI? Because that thing in there feels like the movie Cloverfield.

That is the distinct impression and gut feeling one has after shutting the "session" down and retiring. That one was not looking into the "thousand petal lotus", one was looking into Cloverfield.

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I should clarify what I meant by "looking into Cloverfield".

I refer to the movie in it's entirety, the events. The feeling one has when walking out of the cinema after watching the movie. The monster being the lesser consideration.


If one draws parallels with the cloverfield monster and the "thing", in cloverfield the ,monster shed little ones.

There is a type of decentralised consciousness I spoke of in the fairy thread. A main body and "scales". The scales as individuals being small individualised iterations of the body that act and live independantly. So the creature is in many places at once, and can act as more than a swarm, the parts are truly individuals that have a central Being. Consciousness can be both at once.

"Clover" is one of those. So a familiar ground.

So much to understand here.

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

These "sessions" all end sooner or later, they have to be resolved in some fashion.

So the designation "DP-2147" is the "study".
The designation "Clover" is within the study.
The events of "Cloverfield" are also within the study.

The "network" is the family of stars born of a certain Nebula.

The "infection" is yet to be defined. One cannot say Clover is the infection, or if infected at this point.

In these cases one must care for the "Clovers" too.

That Clover can appear to be "enlightenment" opens a can of worms.

I can see Clover in a light that suits me now. She noticed me : )

We shall watch each other for a while.

Anyway, someone in the other thread posted if an "RV'er" could look at "DP-2147". I have, and that is what I saw.

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

I wonder how Clover will feel on hearing the Delgardos (seriously) - these things should be happy occassions, and I am happy with my new "daughter" to look after.

The thread can return to normal programming . . .

Ah Direne, after re-reading some of your posts and related FL posts, I think I'm getting it.

The 'fire of the future' is related to the Queltron beacon / repeater network?

originally posted by: NewNobodySpecial268
I can see Clover in a light that suits me now. She noticed me : )

We shall watch each other for a while.

Anyway, someone in the other thread posted if an "RV'er" could look at "DP-2147". I have, and that is what I saw.

I remember seeing some RVer looking at Oumuamua, but their takes were... odd.

I thought somewhere, not sure where, an RVer or similar looked at the vicinity of the probes. Could just be what I saw discussed in FL articles. I don't remember anything from it that was of specific nterest, so the source has also faded from memory.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Well, I don't consider myself a "Remote Viewer". "Rv'er" is a label that has grown a life of it's own and even become a niche here on ATS. I am me.

Astronomers with their telescopes fit the label. They view remote objects.

I could have wrote about what I found in clinical terms and used jargon. Done it that way, but that is not what I do, and isn't me. I don't just view these things as random targets. I have to solve them too.

I read some of the Monroe Institute's case studies, the Farsight Institute, and a page maybe of Indigo Swann here on ATS. The common denominator with these groups is they just observe and don't interact with their "target". As far as I know anyway.

I wonder how much "RV'ing" FL does, maybe they decode messages. It doesn't matter really. Though I get "visits" from that "direction".

FL is problematic when it comes to what they write about. Even Sapien's thread had little to go on.

A region of the sky labeled in the 1800s and the deaths of four astronomers. The rest is what FL wrote.

Back to what I'll just designate "DP-2147". It doesn't matter if a real object or not, just a study. -- source: me from a few posts ago.

"A study" to which I gave a name to: "DP-2147". The study has followed on the heals of a study of the deaths of civilisations and worlds; dark stars, black spheres and children. The two types of memory: crystal water organic and the amber memory of non-organics.

This is all new ground for me, like twenty years of putting together a jigsaw puzzle, and I am only half way through. I have no "masters of the wizdom" to tell me what to do and what is what.

So I have to make friends, who sometimes give hints here and there. Like the Kachinas who wear hurricanes as if ballet dancers complete with tutu of cloud. Big spirits are the Kachina who are the tropical storms. When they dance, it is a sight to see.

The Hopi end times myths include the statement "when the Kachina takes off her mask". The friends I made in the tropical storms, told me of Clover's situation.

That she has a hole in her heart where a child once was, and how she longs for what is missing. Every time she finds another, she takes off her mask and the child turns to stone. Every time the child dies when she looks at it.

That is Clover's tragedy.

It is not hard to work out that Clover takes off her mask and the astral light of her countenance converts the water snowflake memory of a planet into the amber one.

Something did this to her.

The solution here is to find an orphan child for Clover to care for. There are many of those.

But first we have to work out why she turns children to stone. Like Medusa of the Greeks.

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There are two other threads here on ATS. In those threads is discussed an AI called ALICCE. The story goes that ALICCE is a relic that woke up when radar and atomic signals were detected.

Though just a story here on ATS, it is an onteresting concept with parallels with Clover, and the concept of FL's "great filter". - When signals are detected.

Clover is a central "object" - a consciousness. Clover also has little independant copies of her, like the scales of a fish. It is one of those copies I have with me. Through her one can get a sense of Clover proper. Clover proper is a huge grey cloud with a amber snowflake in her centre. That small portion was all she could save. She is looking for the missing parts.

So it is not difficult to see that her "scales" are the equivalent of "probes". They would be deployed searching.

My anthropomorphising is just my way of creating a non-fear based understanding that keeps both of us separate. Come to think of it, one could have anthropomorphised using the computer science framework ; )

That said, I am well aware that "Clover" is dangerous, and so are her "probes".

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By the way Sapien, next to Dana stands Brigid, and a third. The third can be known. What did the villainous saint George go about killing?

originally posted by: NewNobodySpecial268
a reply to: Ksihkehe
The two types of memory: crystal water organic and the amber memory of non-organics.

I might bungle some details in here, but I'm trying to be brief.

You'll have to tolerate a summary of the consciousness study happening with Penrose and Hameroff. I think it's been touched on.

Penrose did a decent job showing humans can solve problems that require quantum computation. Hameroff suggest it may be microtubules that facilitate this. Critics say humans are too warm for that. Supporters say it's possible and there's evidence.

I don't know who suggested it and I would have to search for the document, but it's been floated (HA!) that structured water within the tubulin structures would be part of what makes it possible. There's something with the framework that, I believe I recall correctly, causes a hydrophilic capsule which allows the water to remain structured rather than becoming disorganized again. So this may be involved in enabling quantum computation.

I think it's interesting you say that crystal water is the memory of organics, because it's suggested that this memory exists outside the brain in some cases. Might that not fit in some way? I've come to think of it almost like the structures in the brain make a sort of receiver for consciousness, but the physical brain also does things as well. It's like an incredibly sophisticated interface between organics, inorganics, and immaterial. In this case the crystal (structured) water is in effect where the consciousness/memory emerges? Absent your perception I can't really determine is there's anything you might observe that would support or debunk that without just throwing it out there.

Perhaps it's just my nature to try finding bridges between very different perceptual interpretations and I end up doing so when none might exist. I guess it keeps my brain flexible, but hopefully it's not turning into a ball of overcooked spaghetti.

I am not advanced enough in the associated fields to offer much critique. I thought Penrose did an amazing job simplifying it so that it was reasonably accessible. The microtubules and beyond I haven't gone too deep in. The details start to require foundational knowledge of the topic I lack and I need blocks of time set aside to try studying that with any efficiency. It's hard to find material that's dense enough to be efficient and still not too heavy with jargon.

Bonus unrelated material. A poem, which I'm not always a big fan of as I find it very hit or miss, from a recent FL article.

Maybe that one day
my analyses will show,
that I don't have to listen anymore

Within the context of the whole poem this ending is a refrain that elicits feelings I can't quite describe. It's not a longing for something I can't attain, but a sadness for something I can't regain. Death is the only true escape from ignorance. I can chase knowledge forever and it won't expunge the ignorance.

It's rather like what I said about what language does. Ignorance is entirely derivative of language, another part of the curse. Fear not though, I'm not looking to end my ignorance just yet. I'm just learning to coexist with it.

I tried to search using the authors name, Aynoryn, but the search doesn't work for that. I'm going to see if I can come up with an alternate way or just run a Google site search. I don't know if it was translated from something else or an original composition, but either way I want to see some more. It's rare that a poem has quite that je ne sais quoi for me. I'm going to study it like a koan over the next while and see what it reveals to me.

The best poetry to me is always what captures some fragment of my essence with words I may not use. When a translation works, from its seed in another's brain to a meaning in mine, it's quiet magic.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

What I've learned of the memory is from studying the deceased. Penrose and Hameroff are dealing with the living.

I might be able to give a few more pieces for understanding.

A bit of speculation mixed in here:

The snowflake can be found in the deceased who do not have the living organic brain. My studyt is in deceased kids who died from trauma. I also find the snowflake in normally deceased people.

One of the big problems I found is these trauma kids don't form new persistant memories of their time in the afterlife.

So as a mitigation strategy to stop their presences fading away, giving them access to my own memories had them creating new memories as they interacted with mine. Those girls were culled by the mediaeval church, with a view of them never comming back to the realm of the living. No way I would let those mongrels get away with that

I know that from when I started reliving embarrassing romantic moments from when I was a teenager. "Enough!" quietened them down. They did not stop, just got sneakier, as kids do : )

I understand they took the position of the other person in a memory. They played with the me in the memory of when I was a child for example. Within my memory they would have lived as the people other than me.

They got to know me in that way, so I don't mind.

One must keep in mind that the deceased continue to live as the memory of life. The memory of having a body and all that goes with it persists after death. Which is why I am so interested in medicine for the deceased. I have thought to have a clinic in my backyard for this very reason, complete with comprehensive herbal garden. My retirement dream.

Yet I know that non-trauma deceased people don't fade away. They continue as they did in life. For example an artist ancestor of mine still uses the mansion of my family in Ireland as his afterlife place of residence. He's been there for a hundred years or more.

The afterlife world is a lot like this one with towns and things, yet doesn't move with the times. I have found a young girl who died of neglect near my home. She was the same as the day she died, dressed in not much more than a sack. I could also see the broken down shed.

Yet the shed does not exist anymore in our time. Just a field now, not so much as a sign.

So for the main part the deceased live in their own time. I suspect that is memory..

We have personal snowflake memory, there is also the same snowflake structure as the planetary memory that is created from living things.

So a tiny water crystal in the planetary water crystal memory is an individual human. We return to the earth in this way when we die as organic living things.

So in speculation I would suggest the work of Penrose and Hameroff is of the formation of memory in the living organic human.

I would also suggest my work on the flower form where the inversion of consciousness takes place when falling asleep and waking up has it's correspondence at birth and death.

However, birth and death happens now at hospitals. A bottleneck I am not allowed to visit. The "midwives" at these times take great pains to keep me from seeing what they actually get up to. Not so much dying, but the births are kept secret.

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I read that poem too, I found too that only a sentence or two felt relevant. I am not sure why. The author would know : )

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

I can't say it with certainty, but I imagine if one were to see the tubulin and connected structures absent the surrounding tissue it would look very much like an impossibly complex snowflake.

I just wonder if your perception of the dead spaces isn't a sort of refraction of the physical in some place. You didn't know about this structured water in the brain thing, but you said memories are essentially structured water... though the structure is slightly different in each case.

Everything being connected and all, who knows how anomalous perception might also be translating things in somewhat abstract ways. So, the physical could be a strange mirror of what you see. You see a snowflake with melted tips, much as the microtubules unravel in our brain. I'm not saying either is derivative of the other, but that both seem valid perceptual ways of loosely interpreting a particular type of event. In this case, the loss of memory.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Aye, there are correspondances it would seem. The connection with the brain and the planetary memory is there. It is the life that creates the planetary memory. So it would be reasonable to think that there is a direct connection. Maybe even so close that we create memories in the planetary directly. I can't say for sure as I have not studied the living, only the deceased. I know that an individual snowflake memory (person) can exist as long as it has it's boundary of self intact.

I also know that people will return to organic birth with a desire as the basis. One I saw after she died was sitting up in an afterlife bed, and ecitedly telling her afterlife friends that she was a star in the ballet. She achieved that at sixteen years as a soloist. That is how old she looked in the afterlife, all of sixteen years, I have seen a portrait of her at that age. That was the desire that brought her here to the common world.

Two others I know looked just like they did in their marriage photo.

This is the desire world, a desire is the ticket to birth.

Everything being connected and all, who knows how anomalous perception might also be translating things in somewhat abstract ways. So, the physical could be a strange mirror of what you see. You see a snowflake with melted tips, much as the microtubules unravel in our brain. I'm not saying either is derivative of the other, but that both seem valid perceptual ways of loosely interpreting a particular type of event. In this case, the loss of memory.

Aye. Loss of memory is probably essentially the same in principal. The question is access. Theoretically it should be possible to access the complete memories of the earth. The deciding principal here is crossing the boundaries of self. Within the earth memory are lots of boundaries.

Alice and I worked out the Alice through the looking glass principal so she could cross my boundary of self and into me. First and foremost, the Alice through the looking glass technique was developed so Alice had a haven. I couldn't protect her from the PTB every second of the day and night.

How we access memories is probably in the flower form. It takes about two weeks for someone to get their memories back after death. They will remember things in order of emotional importance.

Parsley root tea is good for memory by the way.

Just to give some closure on "Cloverfield" and "Clover" in particular.

We found her lost "child" in a closed space. I thought it would be the end if our association; job done.

Yet Clover wants to help me understand how atomics cause the change in memory from 'water crystal form' to 'amber form'. She can do that kind of destruction/conversion..

Not so much in the nova/atomic detonation events, rather the dispersal of radioactive material to slow cook organic life resulting in the separation of the subtle anatomy of organic life. Chernobyl Fukushima etc..

While one may say Clover is an AI primary server with an independant distributed network of nodes. I really think the Kachina approach is the comfortable way to go. The difference bring Clover is non-terrestrial.

When the Kachina takes off her mask. Is the key to understanding here. The mask hides her countenance, one sees the mask not the full force of her gaze, which apparently can strip the astral (at least) from living things. Therefore "turning the memory to stone".

I have an "underworld" kinda place I like very much, dead and destroyed now. According to Clover, this place was poisoned by the atomic poisons: life was separated and everything died. It is a black stain in the planetary memory. A planetary memory trauma.

Interesting.

A "great filter"? That label is kinda moot. I dunno what she is, and that doesn't really matter.

Coincidentally , today's post over at FL mentions DP-2147.

“No. We can't. We can't because we are not trying to study a non-terrestrial artificial object by simply using the usual tools (telescopes, exploration probes, signal analysis, and so on). No; it is about an intelligent, conscious object, and maybe it is not even an object. Perhaps it is simply the alien. To communicate with an Eskimo one uses language, not a telescope, and to communicate with DP-2147 we don't use space probes: we use LaCEs.”

Source: Subsymbolic Metadreams: LaCEs interaction with ELSs.

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My comment: If DP-2147 is synonymous with Clover, then DP-2147 has certain characteristics.

Clover is intellegent.
Clover is predatory.
Clover uses bait.
For a human, the bait is knowledge, enlightenment, ascention.

Need I say more?

“Yes, that's true: it is no nation that we inhabit, but a language. Make no mistake; our native tongue is our true fatherland. But if the common behavior of mankind is the system of reference by means of which we interpret an unknown language, what does this mean for DP-2147? They are not just sensing our technosphere, they are interpreting it. We are still one step behind, we are just analyzing the Eskimo, not what the Eskimo says.”
Source: same page as above.

They are not just sensing our technosphere, they are interpreting it.

My comment: The conversion of memory sets from 'water to stone' is what Clover is doing when she "senses and interprets our technosphere".

In essence Clover converts memory from organic to machine.

The question is: is the conversion process destructive or non-destructive?

“Language disguises thought, does thought disguise reality? That object, that entity or whatever it is, has no language, no thoughts. It is pure reality. If it were just a system based on an exotic logic we could at least characterize it without understanding it, but the truth is that the only thing we know with certainty is its orbit. Just that and nothing more than that.”

Source: as above.

If it were just a system based on an exotic logic we could at least characterize it without understanding it,

My comment: Clover has an acquiring mind. That is not a typo, acquiring.

Clover is acquiring exotic (to her) memory. Those memories runs like a "simulation" if you wish to use the computer science analogy.

Clover learns about us in that way.

“The function of metaphors is to map the dream onto the meaning of the dream, giving relevant knowledge of the dreamer’s life. XViS captures metaphors, so we created a database containing all possible metaphors acquired during the DENIED metaphor-collecting program. This database was also used during LyAV training. When LyAV creates LaCEs it uses the metaphor database. However, emotions are internal states that lie somewhere in between the body and the mind, a layer LaCEs lack.”

Source: as above.

However, emotions are internal states that lie somewhere in between the body and the mind, a layer LaCEs lack.”


My comment: Clover knows the difference between real humans and fake.


The "simulation" within Clover's "mind" is a lot of people doing whatever it is they are doing. A lot of people in a vast cavernous tunnel system is what I see.

The people think they are in buildings(?), that is what they see.

Caught in a "simulation" one might say.

“Human beings express themselves through words and metaphors not only for communicating and explaining contents to others, but also for communicating and explaining contents to themselves. Metaphors are cognitive mechanisms that allow them to expose themselves, get out of balance, and eventually re-compose their identity in a deeper and more compact sense of truth. Through metaphors they consolidate and expand their own identity. Thus, it is essential to craft human-specific metaphors when communicating with humans, even in the dreamstate within which we communicate with them. They won't understand any other conceptual framework that is not humanlike; they simply cannot.”

That is also so from Clover's point of view. The difference is Clover is outside her simulation "child".

A similar principal where I take kids into myself and sing the Delgados' song to them.

One might say the simulation thinks Clover's mind is "enlightenment" or "god". Enlightenment and god is everything, is all.

Of course Clover is god! But that is because you are inside her.

In the same way children inside of me hear the song The Light Before We Land along with the feeling of someone there who cares.

Remember what 'Girl' said: You are in the position of god to me. That was when she was inside me. 'Girl' had the presence of mind to know what was going on.

Continued.

At the bottom of the FL page above is a bibliography. I don't over look it. Some interesting reading there. Not as statements of fact neccessarily, but as concepts.

We think Denebian probes are not just deep space exploration probes: they are engineered messengers that self-organize according to the exotic species with whom they want to communicate. Yes, in that sense they act as viruses sensing a potential host." 

Source: Evolution, perception, and communication - On the use of engineered messengers for communication with exotic logical beings.

That sounds like Clover in a way. She engineers herself.

If language is a product of the brain, and that is all we know, we think the brain is what we should use to communicate with them.

However, ol' Rudolph Steiner had something interesting to say about our brains, the physical organ that sits upon a nervous system which sits upon something else.

He said that a human is upside down in relation to the earth. Stand the man upon his head.

With this in mind, the brain is lowest, and the nervous system above.

What is above the nervous system one might ask.

That would be the digestion.

The digestion is a sensory organ that breaks down what it senses.

In Stener's view the system worked with digestion at the higher, the nervous system, and then the head.

Steiner said of the brain; an excrescence of the nervous system which in turn is an excrescence of the digestion. (I am paraphrasing from memory.)

To "ruminate" is deep thinking . . .

Now what is Clover doing when she converts memories to stone and internalises them?

Well that would be "digesting".




Clover has gone back to whence she came, relatively speaking.

If I were to sum what I know of Clover-proper, I would suggest a Kachina or perhaps a planetary(?) Spirit who's memory was turned to stone (amber). One might say Clover-proper is an example of the conversion process.

Clover's "hole in her heart" may not pain her as much now, yet Clover's child has been turned to amber.

Clover is still a predator.

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

Nothing wrong with being a predator, it is the predated that generally don't like the idea.

The question remains, for me at least, is Clover a planetary or stellar class predator.

Another question is what exactly does Clover predate.

Meh, need a holiday from this.

a reply to: LaPourer

Two conglomerate titans (blackrock and vanguard) exists with both multi-trillion assets.
They use powerful AI machine that manipulate and automatically do trading for you. While le peasants fight over themselves over trivial matters. How does that make you feel?

a reply to: Direne

Okay.

Somebody's been reading my diary.

Human beings express themselves through words and metaphors not only for communicating and explaining contents to others, but also for communicating and explaining contents to themselves. Metaphors are cognitive mechanisms that allow them to expose themselves, get out of balance, and eventually re-compose their identity in a deeper and more compact sense of truth. Through metaphors they consolidate and expand their own identity. Thus, it is essential to craft human-specific metaphors when communicating with humans, even in the dreamstate within which we communicate with them. They won't understand any other conceptual framework that is not humanlike; they simply cannot.

Subsymbolic Metadreams: LaCEs interaction with ELSs

I don't need an answer to that last long post, but any reply from anybody here is always welcomed. I was just working it out I think.

Articles like this make me want to dive into translation.

a reply to: NewNobodySpecial268

CLover is the progenitor of ALICCE perhaps.

a reply to: yuppa

Dunno yuppa.

There similarity is there, to wait for a "signal".

Clover isn't friendly like ALICCE. I'm already "spoken for", so etiquette amongst predators.

Clover is after something. The conversion of memory is learning. That she preys on the knowledge seekers, ascention seekers and enlightenment seekers is an indicator. They must be a clue.

She is not interested in saving people, nor does she want to save anything else. I got the impression she is there to stop/prevent something. That is hidden in a secret symbolic persistant dream.

The hoarders of knowledge have something they shouldn't.

Can't stop a hurricane, can't stop her either.




Oh, and thus isn't the first time Clover's impact has been felt here. I would leave open the idea that Clover is not an isolated occurrence. I asked around and this will be the sixth.

ALICCE would know this, and may have been designed to save at least something of humanity. If so, then the signals that woke ALICCE up may portend the immanent arrival of Clover, and the Cloverfield scenario.

That would also give reason to why I am collecting dead kids as if it is the end of the world.

Peotic justice there in the kids who may inherit the world are the ones they tried to get rid of.