Are You Buying The Anti-Muslim Propaganda?

I wrote out a long reply and then lost it sigh...

I agree with the OP, The ingnorance, self rightiosness and bigotry of the human race stinks.

It does not take too much research to see it. Just look into 'Mass psychology, advertising or subconcious memory. Watch Adam Curtis - Century of the self, (Try to make it through part 1, I know there are no explosions and its educational) for Mass psychology, and anything by Derren brown (He is awesome) for the subconcious memory.

The proof of this point is shown so astutely in this thread itself, No one looked at thier beliefs about Muslims and where those beliefs come from. "I've seen the protests and the flag burning". Who showed you them? Who failed to put it in its proper context? Were the counter protests by moderate Muslims shown by MSM? They just pounced on you for claiming there beliefs are manipulated. Not only could thier beliefs not possibly be manipulated but they are also right, because they hold them. It does not matter how little education or knowledge they have in the area.

The same goes for "I lived with Muslims and the gangs were terrible". Did you live 'with' the muslims or just near them? Did you hear the discussions of the Muslim community regarding the issues they have with thier youth? I did! They are the same issue us Westerners have with ours. It has to do with far more complex social issues than just because they are Muslim! In fact these youth for the most part have shunned religion, in favour of the western way of life (greed) and this is what the elders blame for there thuggish behaviour. ( Which is predictable as religion is the central focus and guidence for thier lives)

It does not take that much research either to find out what the west has been doing to that region for centuries? Why there is a dislike of the western world throughout the region. It has nothing to do with 'democracy' our leaders want our corporate controlled consumerist society to be exported to them by any means necessary to make more profits and riches for the already rich, without a care as to whether it helps or hinders the average citizen. This is not compatable with the Muslim way of life.

I could go on and on, but I already lost one lengthy post.

As an append, I do not believe in evil, it is a reigious invention and is used to demonise whole races and populations. Once someone / something / some race has been branded evil, anything goes. We have seen Bush junior using this one. I once wrote a long thread on these lines, I might did it out if anyone is interested?

No. I am not.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
The German population didn't just wake up one day with a hatred of all Jewish people, all gay people, artists, writers and poets. They were CONDITIONED to hate

Indeed. They were 'conditioned' through a floundering economy, perceived inequities divvied out after The Great War, the comparative success of the Jewish denizens amongst their otherwise flagging ranks...

The difference with Islam is that we're comparatively very well off with respect to you the majority of Islamic influence nations. We have nothing to complain about, relatively speaking. The 'anti-Muslim propaganda' is intra-perpetuated, far more than anything attributable to externally manipulation. It's those within Islam who permit and incite these bad seeds to grow that sully the entire religion. The ball is in the Muslims' court to weed out the carcinogens to clear the faith's tarnished name. Forward thinking Muslims know and acknowledge this fact; they've said as much. They do, however, stop short of apportioning blame to the wildly interpretable Qur'an (predictably so); although they avow the problems they have and need to address internally.

No secular force compels Islamists to call for / enact beheadings, sever appendages of thieves, to wage 'Jihad', to stone adulterous women, to marry off their adolescent children, to be intolerant of anything and everything that does not comply with their chosen fiction. It is those who brainwash the vulnerable and those who make the choice to pursue a literal interpretation of the bellicose dogma they espouse, that cause the problems.

There are many more pressing reasons for people to take issue with the West than the ousting of Saddam or the assassination of 'King Osama' or the Satanic Versus or some Mohammad cartoon et al. These are just convenient MacGuffins that disenfranchised Muslims, who feel their this life is a fait accompli of misery which is better spent in paving the way to some "paradise", use to divert attention away from the core problem of their theocratic societies stagnating in an era that calls for free-thinkers, not theologians.

Do not exonerate the evils of religion in your efforts to keep up with the Joneses in the fashionable heaping of blame on Western society for everyone's ills and sundry. Although hardly angelic in all of its undertakings, the West is far from culpable for the patent lack of evolutionary progress of others.

Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by detachedindividual
The German population didn't just wake up one day with a hatred of all Jewish people, all gay people, artists, writers and poets. They were CONDITIONED to hate

Indeed. They were 'conditioned' through a floundering economy, perceived inequities divvied out after The Great War, the comparative success of the Jewish denizens amongst their otherwise flagging ranks...

The difference with Islam is that we're comparatively very well off with respect to you the majority of Islamic influence nations. We have nothing to complain about, relatively speaking. The 'anti-Muslim propaganda' is intra-perpetuated, far more than anything attributable to externally manipulation. It's those within Islam who permit and incite these bad seeds to grow that sully the entire religion. The ball is in the Muslims' court to weed out the carcinogens to clear the faith's tarnished name. Forward thinking Muslims know and acknowledge this fact; they've said as much. They do, however, stop short of apportioning blame to the wildly interpretable Qur'an (predictably so); although they avow the problems they have and need to address internally.

No secular force compels Islamists to call for / enact beheadings, sever appendages of thieves, to wage 'Jihad', to stone adulterous women, to marry off their adolescent children, to be intolerant of anything and everything that does not comply with their chosen fiction. It is those who brainwash the vulnerable and those who make the choice to pursue a literal interpretation of the bellicose dogma they espouse, that cause the problems.

There are many more pressing reasons for people to take issue with the West than the ousting of Saddam or the assassination of 'King Osama' or the Satanic Versus or some Mohammad cartoon et al. These are just convenient MacGuffins that disenfranchised Muslims, who feel their this life is a fait accompli of misery which is better spent in paving the way to some "paradise", use to divert attention away from the core problem of their theocratic societies stagnating in an era that calls for free-thinkers, not theologians.

Do not exonerate the evils of religion in your efforts to keep up with the Joneses in the fashionable heaping of blame on Western society for everyone's ills and sundry. Although hardly angelic in all of its undertakings, the West is far from culpable for the patent lack of evolutionary progress of others.

Very Very very well articulated.......I wish i could give you multiple stars for this post......

Im anxious to see if anyone can successfully argue with this logic......

Well done my friend

Children chant 'Death to America'
www.ktvz.com...

Anti-film ads in Pakistan feature Obama, Clinton
www.cbsnews.com...

I have visited mosques in the past as part of my ongoing attempt to learn more about our world's and society's different religions. I was always allowed in, greeted politely, and never saw anything untoward happening. I saw a lot of what I see in every religious institution: prayer, discussion, contemplation, fellowship, and pontificating.

On a more personal note, there is a man who works at our local hospital. He is one of the most decent human beings I've ever met, and one of the few genuine people I've encountered there over the last going-on-seven months that my mom and I have been struggling with the hospital bureaucracy to get her well. He works tirelessly every day to help facilitate liaisons between hospital staff and patients when things go awry and the hospital fails its patients in some capacity. Without going into too much detail, the other day my mom went from being in unremitting, unbearable pain, to virtually no pain whatsoever. The things that went into making that happen were a direct result of his efforts on our behalf, and it wasn't anything particularly spectacular or skillful that he did: it was just him being a communicator and a - in my view - decent person.

He happens to be Muslim.

So, that is the extent of my exposure to Islam and people of the Muslim faith. Are there almost certainly, as in any faith, other elements of it elsewhere in the world (or even right here) of which I'm unaware and might be what I would consider harmful? Yes, probably. And let me make it clear: where and when such elements are found, appropriate steps should and must be taken to protect people. But I can only go with what I have experienced personally, directly. And that experience tells me that I cannot paint members of any faith with a broad brush or make assumptions about them (positive or negative, as they all seem to contain both in my experience.)

Everyone's mileage and opinions will vary, naturally. Peace.

Ok OP,I see what you're saying.

Now, here's the thing.
Whether or not I "buy" the anti-muslim propaganda or not is irrelevant.
There is obviously a reason why there is so much of it, and so many people that believe that way.
Now you have to ask yourself... Where does this hatred come from?
It is a collective energy that is for sure.
My point here is, there is just too much evidence against the "powers that be are making all this propaganda" that it debunks your theory.

This collective hatred has been building for a LONG time.

Why?

Because westerners are very tolerant people.

I don't know exactly when or where it all started. Probably somewhere around 600AD.
This latest rash of collective hatred probably stems from the mid-70's during the islamic uprisings then, and around the time of the whole "muslims storm into munich olympics" thing, and the whole "iran turns into a violent islamic nation and takes a bunch of Americans hostage" thing. Mmmmm, yeah somewhere around that time.

Then from there, we could fill a library with the things that have been done under the banner of "islam".
We could start going back and looking at old newspapers, etc and you will see.
I am not just making it up, these people want to cause harm to western interests.

It is my own personal opinion is that they have brought this wrath upon themselves because of their own actions.

My point with all this is, that I don't think you really understand what is REALLY happening. Maybe there isn't a "powers that be" pulling the strings on this issue. I highly doubt it.

So... now that you asked, and I have given you a "layman's" term of what I think is really going on, what say you?

There was an interesting social experiment conducted in the 1960s called Sherif's Robbers Cave Experiment. The popular telling of it goes like this:

Twenty-two 11 year-old boys were taken to a summer camp in Robbers Cave State Park, Oklahoma, unaware they were the subjects of an experiment. Before the trip the boys were randomly divided into two groups. When the boys arrived at the camp, they were housed in separate cabins and, for the first week, did not know about the existence of the other group.

The experiment had three phases. The first was focused on "in-group formation/cohesion". So they did a bunch of crap to get the kids to bond - like swimming and hiking and coming up with a group name and emblem, etc...

After about a week, they initiated Phase Two - the "Friction Phase". Here, they allowed - for the first time - the groups to become aware of each other and brought both of them together. The experimenters wanted to encourage conflict, so they set the groups against each other in a series of competitions, with rewards and praise showered on the victors. They even encouraged gloating and name-calling. Eventually, it got to the point where the groups were practically at each other's throats, and they couldn't even be kept in the same room to eat lunch together. Then, they moved on to phase three.

Phase Three was the "Integration Phase". Here, they brought the two groups together, not to compete, but to cooperate and work as a unified whole. One of the things they had to do was come up with a solution on a water supply that was supposedly damaged by vandals. And it worked! The kids put their heads together, solved the problem, and got along swimmingly. They even picked out a movie to watch together later that night and once again ate in the same room! Talk about a happy ending, right?! Not so fast...

It turns out - and this wasn't known at the time the study was published and even usually gets left out to this day - they had conducted the experiment two other times (so, three in total). In the first, the boys remained stratified and violent and ganged up on a common, "weaker" enemy. In the second - and this is where it gets interesting - the boys realized they were being manipulated and ganged up on the experimenters themselves. That's right, there was a third "invisible" group at play the entire time - the powerful manipulators in the background who had everything to gain (research grants, data, results, prestige, etc...) by pitting the two other, "weaker" groups against each other.

Now, what does that remind you of???



For more background and analysis on Sherif's Robbers Cave Experiment, check out these links:

SHERIF'S ROBBERS CAVE EXPERIMENT (the nuts and bolts of it)
War, Peace and the Role of Power in Sherif's Robbers Cave Experiment (the analysis that inspired this post)


Edit to add:

On a semi-related note, there's an amazing book that's worth checking out called Madness at the Gates of the City: The Myth of American Innocence by Barry Spector. A summary doesn't do it justice, and this post is already running pretty long, but it also touches on this need for an "in-group" to paint another group of people as "the Other". And how it reflects those "shadow" aspects of ourselves that we refuse to face and end up projecting on people who we view as different - going so far as to dehumanize them, in most cases.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I have visited mosques in the past as part of my ongoing attempt to learn more about our world's and society's different religions. I was always allowed in, greeted politely, and never saw anything untoward happening. I saw a lot of what I see in every religious institution: prayer, discussion, contemplation, fellowship, and pontificating.

The same could be said about literally every cult that has ever existed throughout history.

The agenda behind cults is ALWAYS hidden.

This is the ONLY way they can grow and thrive.

If the agenda were out in the open, no one would fall for it.

Contrary to popular belief, this is NOT rocket science.

No and neither are most people ..the idiots who think we should exterminate a certain race,will never win.People are not the sheep they once were.You got to look @ most nations are rising against the TPTB.Muslims are not our enemy.Our enemy are extremist elements as in which ever Religion Nation they claim to back!!!People forget the thugs who go around knocking chunks out of people.:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace (past three days):

["Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29]

2012.09.20 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Two Religion of Peace suicide bombers detonate in a restaurant, taking out fifteen patrons.

2012.09.20 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A children's doctor is among six Iraqis who lose their lives to Muslim terrorists.

2012.09.19 (Scheme Chowk, Pakistan) - Nine people along a city street are obliterated by a Taliban bomb
containing ball bearings.

2012.09.18 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A 12-year-old girl is among eight members of the Dawoodi Bohra (Shia) minority are blasted into the next world by Sunni bombers.

2012.09.18 (Mastung, Pakistan) - Three Shia pilgrims are sent to Allah in a targeted attack by a Sunni suicide bomber.

2012.09.18 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - A female suicide bomber massacres a busload of foreigners "in revenge" for a film about Muhammad that the victims had nothing to do with.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
although there are some here who seem to be swallowing the BS and believe that this is ALL of Islam.

People are ignoring the intention of the post and immediately jumping in with their opinion of Islam. That is not what this is supposed to be about.

You are creating a straw man thread to defend your propaganda of Islam. 1400 years of terrorism
is enough to prove what Islam is. Read todays news, killing all over the world by Islamists. Islam
is a Rage Virus Meme.

Let's look at some of the individual memes within the Islamic memeplex:

1. A standardized version of the memeplex is written down, which makes for perfect replication fidelity. This is something basic to several religions and isn't an Islamic invention, but it is an important factor in the success of Islam.

Something only transmitted orally can change over time, but something written will be identical a thousand years from now, and with modern printing presses, can be reproduced in the millions, giving it enormous fecundity and fidelity.

2. The Koran includes instructions for its own spread. It tells believers they must spread Islam. It is their holy duty to bring Mohammad's warnings and Islamic law to every corner of the world.

3. The memeplex includes instructions for its own preservation, protection, and replication fidelity. The Koran, the most important of the Islamic holy books, directly tells its followers that they can never change or modify or "modernize" any of the teachings within the memeplex. It is a capital sin to try to do so. The memeplex ensures its own preservation this way.

These first three memes are pretty standard for several successful religions. But now it gets interesting...

4. Islam commands its followers to create a government that supports it. This may be one of the most brilliant innovations in Islam. Islam is the only religion that uses it. Other groups of religious people have had political aspirations, but no other major religious group orders its followers — as a religious duty — to create a government that follows its own system of law.

Islam has a system of law, called Shari'a, and all Muslims are obligated to continually work toward making their government — wherever they are — follow it. Because of some of the other memes added to Islam, you will see that this political addition to the memeplex has significant consequences. I think this is Islam's most brilliant innovation, and also the most terrifying to non-Muslims.

5. Permission to spread the memeplex by war. This is another brilliant innovation. Although some other religions have spread themselves using force, they had very little justification from their own religious doctrines.

Not so with Islam. Expanding by conquest is very much accepted and encouraged by the memeplex. The poor non-Muslims not living in an Islamic state need to be saved from the sin of following laws other than Allah's. If they won't voluntarily change their laws to Shari'a, then it is the duty of Muslim warriors to insist. The world cannot be at peace until every government on earth follows the laws of Allah.

Mohammad's own experience showed the example — an example, says the Koran, that every Muslim should follow. For ten years Mohammad tried to spread Islam by peaceful means. After ten years he had a paltry 150 converts. But he changed tactics and started using warfare, slaughter, executions, and assassination, and in a relatively short time, he converted tens of thousands, and after his followers died, they used the same tactics and converted millions.

The use of warfare combines powerfully with the instruction to create an Islamic state. So Islam spread quickly as their armies got bigger. They conquered and set up Islamic states, most of which have lasted to this day, and as you'll see, the laws within an Islamic state make it very advantageous to convert to Islam.

This is one of the most effective methods ever invented for getting a memeplex into huge numbers of minds. It's a method of control and indoctrination similar to those used successfully in communist and totalitarian states. But as you discover below, Islam makes unique use of the power of the law to enforce complete conversion to the memeplex.

6. Lands must be conquered. Lands that Islam has lost must be reconquered, like Spain and Israel, for example. The Islamic empire must continually expand. Contraction is bad, expansion is good. So if a land was once Islamic and now it is not, that is contraction, and must be remedied.

According to this meme, the earth is Allah's. If there are parts of the earth not following Islamic law, it is the duty of the faithful to gain control of that land and establish Shari'a. It is a sin to let it be.

7. The memeplex provides for new soldiers by allowing polygamy. A Muslim man can marry up to four wives, and he can have sex with as many slave girls as he wishes.

edit on 21-9-2012 by WakeUpNowSnap because: (no reason given)

Religion. That which continues to preach peace yet always ends in violence. Thank God for religion. Without it, how would we ever continue to divide and conquer ourselves?

Step 1: Leave cave.
Step 2: Invent book.
Step 3: Go back into cave.

Well done humanity, well done.

Originally posted by WakeUpNowSnap
You are creating a straw man thread to defend your propaganda of Islam. 1400 years of terrorism
is enough to prove what Islam is. Read todays news, killing all over the world by Islamists. Islam
is a Rage Virus Meme.

1400 years is it? And Christians had nothing to do with that? No, it has to be those evil brown people at fault. I do read today's news, and you know what I see? I see Israel pleading with Christians to start yet another holy war. Interesting that the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, yet humanity continues to repeat it's mistakes. Haven't changed much have we?

Originally posted by Surfrat

THE MUSLIMS ARE *NOT* HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ..
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ..
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ..
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ..
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France ..
They're happy in Italy ..
They're happy in Germany ..
They're happy in Sweden ..
*They're happy in the USA .. *
They're happy in Norway ..
They're happy in Holland .
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!

*AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?*
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

*THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN! *
**
*AND THEN; THEY WANT TO CHANGE THOSE COUNTRIES TO BE LIKE *
*THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY*!

Excuse me but I can't help wondering...
How damn dumb can you get?

What's the difference between the first list and the second list? The second list is bombing the first list.

Let's continue on topic for a moment. Since the go to response to anything positive about Islam is about those "extremists", let's do some math then shall we?

Even if 911 happened as we were told and "extremists" really did kill 3000 people from some remote cave in derka derka land, our Government turned around killed over 6000 more of our people in response. So let me just get this logic right okay? They kill 3000 of our people and we turn around and sacrifice 6000 more. That's really showing them! On top of it, how many "freedoms" have we lost in the process? I hope all you people that hate Muslims so much are enjoying your sexual assault by the TSA or being spied on through the Patriot Act. Maybe some day, anyone that thinks we shouldn't condemn an entire religion based on the action of a few thugs can just be taken away and brainwashed *I mean reeducated* using that NDAA!

I wonder who those Fema camps are really for? The evil brown people or the people with a functioning brain?

reply to post by WakeUpNowSnap

You are creating a straw man thread to defend your propaganda of Islam. 1400 years of terrorism is enough to prove what Islam is. Read today's news, killing all over the world by Islamist. Islam is a Rage Virus Meme.

Why is it when a Muslim nation is attacked and they strike back it's called terrorism? America and the UN are killing people all over the world far more than what Islam does so why aren't you complaining about them?

reply to post by TrueBlood

I wonder who those Fema camps are really for? The evil brown people or the people with a functioning brain?

By the way some people in government are acting I would say both.

reply to post by detachedindividual


There will always be racists and bigots. The fact that some are posting here is no surprise nor does it mean that they are succumbing to propaganda. That isn't to say there isn't any propaganda but I don't really watch a lot of MSM and aside form a few news stories I've seen in regards to Muslim extremists I haven't really seen anything to indicate to me that people are being brainwashed or anything in regards to those people....I might change my opinion were you to see such comments you posted earlier in the MSM. Although I won't defend that I feel as though America is edging closer and closer to a fascist state reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

Originally posted by TrueBlood
Religion. That which continues to preach peace yet always ends in violence. Thank God for religion. Without it, how would we ever continue to divide and conquer ourselves?

Give credit where credit is due...

There is a very good reason that the god of this world is called the "deceiver".

The father of all lies uses religion to deceive.

Religion only does what it was DESIGNED to do: hate, kill, and lie.

The real agenda of all Illuminati created false religion is to blind and misguide you AWAY from the truth.

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control." Link

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated and is behind ALL false religion.
Source

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda." Link