Are You Buying The Anti-Muslim Propaganda?

History has shown that Islam has been the driving force behind many wars with the west. Read into the siege of Vienna. Who was it that Vlad Dracula was fighting? Cripes if it wasn't for ole Vlad outdoing the Ottoman Turks in atrocities that peaceful religion would have overrun Europe. As a rule I could care less about somebodies religion until it interferes with the operation of society. Remember in the 80's when Russia invaded Afghanistan? Lot's of Muslims came to the US and they were for the most part peaceful folks looking to escape the war raging in their homeland. Are we seeing the results of Russia'simperialism?

I think the muslims are stepping up anti-muslim propaganda on their own no help needed.
I don't feel anger or for the killings or flag burning, but I do pity them. It's 2012 all other religions have relaxed their oppressive collars some why not them. Why are they still taking the koran literally it seems like it causes much hate and violence in the world.

The way I look at it is this way. Islam came in slamming western life and culture. There is a shift to anti Islam because the west does not buy into the religion of peace thing. All the west sees is bloodshed and hatred. So if the west rejects Islam, it's because they don't want it and don't like it.

reply to post by detachedindividual

I intend this thread to be a discussion about how this is going to play out, whether you think you are falling for the propaganda (whoever is responsible) and what you plan to do about it.

This is the most depressing thread I've ever read.

No, I have not fallen for all the cocked up propaganda that is designed to dehumanize even more people whose deaths we're being prepped to cheer in the very near future. And having funded and cheered so many millions of deaths already, people can't understand why they're hated and feared.

All hate is based on fear, some imagined and some based on bloody experience. I wish more people could grasp the difference.

As to how I think it will play out ~ it doesn't bode well for any of us. Unfortunately we aren't smart enough to grieve for all we will also lose in tearing up the planet that we refuse to share with others over deliberate lies.

I'm not certain I understand your point here. People are reacting emotionally...like people do.

I myself am not pleased with a group of people that feel it is their "duty" to restrain the rights and freedoms of every other group of people on the planet.

In fact, I have said it a couple of times. If they want to rule with an Iron fist within the borders of their third world sewer...fine...I do not care. But when they cross the border into the modern world, you have to leave those dreams of absolute control behind...it does not work and will never work over here. (and before anyone says but we are there...no, the film and the cartoons were not there...and we shouldn't be there anyway)

The hate speech is just that...speech, an expression of thought...and it is protected. The Freedom of speech was specifically penned down to allow people to be able to speak out against Government AND religion. Yes, people are speaking hatefully, but they are responding emotionally...anger versus anger.

Some dolt thought it was clever to intentionally inflame a group of people who are historically rather easy to inflame. Another group decided to post some cartoons to throw gasoline on the fire...Is it morally right?...prob not. It is however, their right to be idiots if they so choose to be. The biggest test of someone's appreciation of freedom is whether or not they allow others to be free...even the ones you totally disagree with.

I've not called for violence against the muslims....my position has always been that they have no business pretending they can tell others how to think or act...whether they are offended or not is irrelevant. The fact that they resort to violence to try and dissuade the behavior they disagree with is by definition...terrorism...they are attempting to use fear to control others...it will not work and it should not ever work.

I can sympathize to a point about what your opening post was trying to say...yes, hate has been responsible for terrible atrocities for as long as mankind has been able to hit another man with a rock.

I however am not going to sway on my position. I will maintain my freedom to speak and think however I want until the day I take a dirt nap....

"I" am not thumping a Bible in the middle east trying to convert Muslims to Christianity..."I" have not said a thing about their prophet....

"I" HAVE pointed out that most of the raving lunatics in the streets aren't even capable of reading and are behaving the way they are because their trusted (fill in the blank) has told them to be angry and go kill and destroy. makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

But go on, tell us this is how Hitler and Mussolini and Stalin started....got news for you...this country was already on that path before they got an attitude with the Muslims...

some interesting replies thus far .. forgot earlier .. hadnt had coffee yet ... but there is a song by group called anti-flag that heard nephew has it on his mobile.. anyhow ... its called anatomy of your e emy sums up rather well the techniques being used by the west to stir up anti-muslim sentiments (though really it could apply to any group...) ...

I do not need the propaganda to form my own opinions.....unlike what you presume.

I have and always will detest Islam and its entity.

I am no islamaphobic so much as I am an equal opportunity hater and hate all the major religions quite heartily.

Religion as people have come to know it is for the weakest of minds and the dumbest of people.

There is NO proof of any god and no one religious has Ever shown even a morsel. They keep preaching the same crap and trying to shovel it down anybody throat.

I find the US a sad and desperate place as these idiots have "in god we trust" on their money, yet they are the most gluttonous, self obsessed and truly corruptest nation on this dog pile we call earth. OF the western world I am speaking.

Everytime I see someone praying or preaching their crap I ask them if they have lost anyone close to them through cancer, car accident, child death or any of the really nasty stuff. Most reply yes they have.

I just laugh at them and head straight for the nearest outlet that sells lottery tickets and purchase one just for the hell of it.

Anti-muslim as people call it.....NO its just plain anti-animals.

Ah... well, lets see? Bombings, Riots, threats, placards that say "Death to Americans" and "Behead those that insult Islam"... etc etc etc

There isn't any 'propaganda'...it's there on the news in plain sight!

So I have a new question... Why can't you see it?

Originally posted by detachedindividual
After all of the discussions on ATS over the last week, I worry that there is a massive change in public sentiment taking place.

If you've studied history, you know what this is about. The German population didn't just wake up one day with a hatred of all Jewish people, all gay people, artists, writers and poets. They were CONDITIONED to hate, they were lied to, coerced, bombarded and brainwashed into viewing millions of people as enemies - worthy of killing.

It didn't matter what the individual had done, or not done, all were deemed to be worthy of attack.

Take a look at the following, and tell me whether you think these quotes are from Nazis about their enemies, or people today, in our countries, speaking about all Muslim people...

I've removed identifying words, to give you a challenge, but the sentiment is unchanged.

It is time to face facts. [REMOVED] is an enemy to [REMOVED]. It is time to deal with them

I think these mad [REMOVED] underestimate white man.There are plenty of people ready to crush them like worms.

Spot on Dude, I hope more people realize that Islam is not America's enemy, just a handful of fundamentalists.
Maybe they are the few who understand the futility of [REMOVED] forced upon us and are taking a stand. Some might say racism.

As for the [REMOVED] terrorizing countries,why should we pander to them?

I cannot stand [REMOVED]. I find them to be savages, ignorant and expansionist

It really is embarrassing to call them humans.

History says [REMOVED] was a pedophile, a murderer, a savage, an idolator, a rapist, a thief, illiterate, a liar

Can you work out which of these above quotes are from Germans in WW2?

Wait for it...

None of them are, they are all taken from posts on ATS, most from the same thread, all from individuals attacking Islam and Muslim people in general.

These people are not attacking the minority who protested or acted violently, they are attacking millions of people, combining them all into one group to hate. It doesn't matter if the Muslim person is moderate, gay, a poet, a thinker, man woman or child, these opinions are expressed against ALL MUSLIMS.

We have groups of people in our western nations now planning a counter protest against all Muslim protests. We have the same people screaming about their own freedoms, attacking the freedoms of others because a minority abuse them.

There are large numbers of complete idiots currently planning to attack the freedoms of others in their country, for protesting against the freedoms they have. This is an insane circle of hypocrisy, with both sides of the protesting crowds guilty of complete and utter stupidity.

What concerns me is that the number of those falling for this propaganda war is rising. It might have started out with the knuckle-dragging white-power neo Nazi, but it has quickly spread. Normally the posters on ATS are more rational than this, but I fear that this is a microcosm of what might be happening out in the real world away from forums.

We have several xenophobic groups planning to protest or show the pathetic little YouTube video in the coming months. We have warnings that radical Islamic groups are likely to increase in number in response to both the original video and the coming clashes in the streets. Likewise, it's reasonable to assume that racist and nationalist groups will also increase their numbers as a result of this.

We are walking into a storm, people are buying the polarization, people are willingly falling for the crusade mentality. And some people - some nations - will benefit greatly while they watch us all fall.

I welcome the discussion, but can we please keep this limited to discussion about the polarization of nations and people, who is responsible, what people are experiencing and personal perceptions? We've had enough discussion about the film, the cartoons and the protests outside of our nations.

I intend this thread to be a discussion about how this is going to play out, whether you think you are falling for the propaganda (whoever is responsible) and what you plan to do about it.

Please leave your opinions of religious groups at the door, it's not welcome in this discussion.

reply to post by Antonio1


Sorry.........my comment didn't appear for some reason on the above post.
I hope more people can realize that Islam as a whole is not the west's enemy, just a handful of religious fundamentalists.

While I agree with most of the posters here, in that I want to avoid Islamic values taking hold, or having any influence, whatsoever, over American politics. Not that I think Muslims are bad people, I don't. Nor do I want to go to war with these countries. That being said Islam is a repugnant belief system, that is diametrically opposed to Freedom. Granted Judaism and Christianity are as well.

People who live in this country are guaranteed a vote, regardless of their religion (not that your vote affects anything). However, I think that before a person be allowed to move here they should have to swear an oath, affirming their belief in a few basic principles. They should affirm the belief in freedom, and the equal rights of all men, and women.

HOWEVER! what these people fail to realize is that these protests, and western hatred aren't the result of some movie. This anti american, anti western sentiment is about the west imposing it's values and agenda on the peoples of the middle east for close to a century.

England invaded their countries in World War 1. They start trading in drugs, and alcohol. They bring in strip clubs for the westerners living there. After World War 2 they are the play thing of Russia. American intelligence covertly topples there systems of governance to "prevent the spread of communism". We put a puppet dictator in Iraq (Saddam Hussein), and ARM HIM WITH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, THAT HE USED ON HIS IRAQ'S NEIGHBORS! Next turning against him and occupying his country.

The list goes on and on. You can't systematically attack one of the largest groups in the worlds way of life, for decades, and not expect a push back. This kind of push back is inevitable. Imagine if the Chinese and North Koreans started manipulating European affairs in this way. Don't you think over time the people would latch onto Christianity and radicalize against the east in much the same way? Of course they would, and they'd have every right. It's a survival mechanism.

Granted if we totally left the ME alone, conflict would have just arisen at a later date. I don't claim to know the answer, or the best strategy. The future of is indeterminable. The long term ramification of any action or inaction is impossible to calculate. Mankind is blindly and ignorantly hurdling towards an unknown future, for we are but a flash of lightning in the life of the cosmos. All we can do is to seek wisdom, and peace, and to express our god given inner nature's as best we know it, as best we can. Leaving the rest to fate. [rant end... sorry]

To answer the question proposed in the title of your thread, no, I have not bought into the anti-Muslim campaign that has been pushed by members of our government and the media. It is something I worry about constantly, especially since I see it up close and personal quite often. I have always been someone who is highly empathetic and I can put myself in anothers position which makes it very hard to judge. Unfortunately, it is easy for people to point their finger and criticize others, but when it comes to taking a hard look at ourselves, most are too cowardly to do so. Instead of concentrating on our differences, we should be focused on our similarities, which there are a vast amount more of.

Speaking of those similarities, it is funny (well, more scary) to me that people are unable to notice how similar we truly are. When you get down to it, it is like looking into a mirror. The irony is significant. One of the greatest criticisms of the Islamic world is their inability to keep religion out of politics and their ability to let it interfere with their worldview. Most who play this card will point to how the Muslim extremists use their holy doctrines to justify their actions. However, when you take a look at the United States, you find that many influential political leaders dictate law and political policy based on their Christian beliefs. There are biblical literalists who use their faith to deny the rights of others. "God will not allow it so we cannot either." You see this in the gay marriage debate as well as the abortion issue. Which leads me to my next point - we ridicule the Muslim people for how they treat their females, which cannot be debated is deplorable, but as a civilized society we still have problems with gender equality that are very disconcerting. Obviously, it really has not been that long since women were finally allowed to vote. We still have never had a woman as president of our country (though Pakistan has) and although it is very, very slowly getting better there are still few women CEOs and heads of colleges and universities. We do not make our women cover their faces and bodies with burkas, but we live in a society where women (and men, too) are bombarded by advertising and PR campaigns specifically designed to make women feel ugly, fat, and overly uncomfortable with their bodies so that there is a constant market for cosmetics and promiscuous clothing. These issues breed all kinds of dangerous physical and psychological problems. As the brother of a young woman who struggled with bulimia, I can testify to this fact first hand. They are radically different problems we deal with, but they stem from the same issues.

To think that the Muslim world is dominated by religious extremists while simultaneously ignoring the fact that we ourselves have this problem is vastly naive. Our culture and political spectrum, as stated above, is filled with biblical literalists and Christian extremists who dictate the norms in this country. They have an enormous amount of influence. But as with all religious discussion, no matter which side you find yourself on, it is your God that is the right and one true God. You are correct and everyone else is wrong. People stand atop their soapbox and bark orders and judgements without ever stopping to consider the irony. Honestly, how are we any better than them if this is how we act? Instead of helping these cultures we deem backwards and barbaric learn and grow, instead of taking them by the hand and ushering them further down the line little by little, slowly, into the realm of acceptance and understanding, we let blind and irrational fear and anger take over, somehow not realizing the vitriol we perpetuate will destroy us all sooner rather than later. The saying is cliche, but how many of us have actually walked a mile in their shoes? Experienced life from their point of view? Lived along side them and tried to understand their values? I am willing to bet that most, and particularly those who are prone to issuing the sharpest and quickest of indictments, have not took the time nor the effort to understand why they hate.

Personally, that is my biggest reason for being careful when I judge and deciding who I dislike. I want to know WHY I feel the way I do, especially if it is so strongly. Sadly, most simply hate based on what they have been told - through the news, through movies and television, and through listening to others who have not taken the time themselves even though they may be in a position of authority and should understand that their words will affect the judgement of others.

We need to be responsible for our own actions, and take responsibility for our emotions, as well. We need to not be so quick to judge others and as stated previously, we need to realize the similarities that bind us together instead of the minute amount of differences that drive us apart, and work on bettering ourselves, together, for the sake of our children and future generations of humans who we have no right to throw into a world of hatred, ignorance, and intolerance.

I speak to Muslims and Christians alike. And all other -isms and forms of herding us all into one group or another that humans seem to enjoy so much.

And anyone who wants to talk about history to some how justify these feelings of ill will, well first of all, there is a lot of it. As in, a lot of history. We can point to almost every religion as having committed some sort of violence or injustice towards another at some point in time. Christianity is number one in my book when it comes to this, based on the Inquisition alone, and Islam would probably be number two. I myself have never been particularly fond of organized religion, and felt that they all in one way or another, hold us back from reaching our true spiritual potential. However, all religions are the same in the sense that people need something to believe in to get them through it seems, and if it wasn't religion it would be something else. Organized religion is just a mechanism for control, but people should be able to believe in different things while still appreciating the fact we are all human. We all entered this world the same way, and we will all exit it the same way.

But concentrating on the past is a moot point, as we are only responsible for our own actions in the present. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can move forwards and towards a world of peace.

Oh, and this is my 200th post. Woot woot! I am glad it was concerning an issue that is truly important, and not about the political election or some crap.

I hope each and every one of you can move past your judgements and understand there is no reason to be afraid. There is no reason to be afraid of death, no reason to be afraid of life, and there is no reason to be afraid to appreciate your fellow man.

I do have to say though, after reading many of these posts, my faith in humanity itself has drastically gone down.

Originally posted by detachedindividual


Because the main point of the topic is not Islam, it's the polarization of people based on false ideas about a minority group.

Think about the Nazis in WW2 and how they managed to convince millions of German citizens to hate Jewish people, gay people, intellectuals, the press...

Do you get it now?

This is not about whether you agree with Islamic beliefs or not (I really don't care), this is about the rising of the idiot masses against ANY group of people within their country.

Your premise is that we have false ideas about a "minority group".

Lets update your second sentence.

"Think about the Islamists in WW3 an how they managed to convince a 1.5 billion people to hate
Jews,Christians,Hindus, Buddhists,gay people, intellectuals, the press........."

Islam is a Rage Virus.

It is a mental meme that infects all those people.
Islam is NOT A TRUE RELIGION anymore than Naziism was a true religion.


www.citizenwarrior.com...

The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
Friday

HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED why millions of Muslim men are dedicated to killing Americans? Or why so many are willing to blow themselves up to kill Israelis? Or why they are so committed to blowing up random people in Bali, London, Madrid, etc.?

Islamic supremacists are doing this all over the world, attacking westerners and their own fellow Muslims alike. Why?

Because of memes. A meme is anything that can be copied from one mind to another. The custom of shaking hands, for example, is a meme. A melody is a meme. A recipe for lemonade is a meme. Even the word "meme" is a meme, which has just made a copy of itself in your mind. Read more about memes here: What is a Meme?

One of the characteristics of memes is they can evolve because some memes are better at making copies of themselves than other memes. They get more copies of themselves into other minds.

So memes compete with each other and evolve. Part of the way they become better at making copies is to join together with other memes in a mutually-supporting group. A combination of memes (known as a "memeplex") is often able to get itself into more minds than single memes.

From a memetics standpoint, a religion is a memeplex — collection of memes. One of the memes might be, for example, "This is a holy book."

And the holy book itself is, of course, a collection of memes.

Let's look at how religious memeplexes evolve and compete. To begin with, let's assume we already have a religion established. It already has a holy book and millions of people already have a copy of the memeplex in their minds.

And then there is a slight variation.

The original memeplex had a "live and let live" attitude, and never tried to encourage its followers to get converts. But then someone comes up with the idea that if you can persuade a non-believer to become a believer, you earn some sort of spiritual merit. You are saving souls, and your chances of getting into heaven are better.

Okay, now you have two variations on the same memeplex: One says "live and let live." The other motivates people to spread the memeplex to others.

After a thousand years, which of the two variations will have more copies in the minds of people? I'm betting on the motivated-to-spread-it version.

reply to post by detachedindividual


I'm surprised you didn't use one of my posts for an example. I have been very outspoken about the need to deal with the extremists before this gets worse even comparing them to Hitler.

I'll quote myself:

Why was Hitler a threat? Because he showed if not stopped, he would try to take over the world and remake it in his image. People don't seem to get this is exactly what the Extremist Muslims are trying to do and they have stealth and deceit on their side hiding in the numbers of millions of good Muslims. Now you have a million Hitlers we have to deal with hidden in plain sight.

www.abovetopsecret.com... Also in this thread I call for a pre-emptive strike against them and call for the good Muslims to turn them over before they get caught up in the middle of a war.

You want to discuss how this will play out? I think people need to keep in mind there is a clear defined enemy and that enemy needs to be better identified ( the extremist Muslim factions) from the good Muslim population. It's not about hate or spreading hate. Even the good Muslims agree with me that these people don't represent them and they must be stopped, as evidenced by Bridget Gabriel Act for America. ( Act stands for American Congress for Truth) en.wikipedia.org... These are Muslims working together to combat Islamic fundamentalism in the USA.

People need to keep this distinction in mind and not fall into the trap of hating all Muslims. That would be like hating all Christians because of the actions of a few rouge factions such as the Catholics responsible for the Crusades.

Originally posted by detachedindividual


I've removed identifying words, to give you a challenge, but the sentiment is unchanged.

It is time to face facts. [REMOVED] is an enemy to [REMOVED]. It is time to deal with them

I think these mad [REMOVED] underestimate white man.There are plenty of people ready to crush them like worms.

Maybe they are the few who understand the futility of [REMOVED] forced upon us and are taking a stand. Some might say racism.

As for the [REMOVED] terrorizing countries,why should we pander to them?

I cannot stand [REMOVED]. I find them to be savages, ignorant and expansionist

It really is embarrassing to call them humans.

History says [REMOVED] was a pedophile, a murderer, a savage, an idolator, a rapist, a thief, illiterate, a liar

Can you work out which of these above quotes are from Germans in WW2?

Wait for it...

None of them are, they are all taken from posts on ATS, most from the same thread, all from individuals attacking Islam and Muslim people in general.

I am 100% sure, you can use the word "Zionist", or "American" in any of these sentences, and find the same type of Rhetoric, throughout ATS.

MHO

Originally posted by Fromabove
The way I look at it is this way. Islam came in slamming western life and culture. There is a shift to anti Islam because the west does not buy into the religion of peace thing. All the west sees is bloodshed and hatred. So if the west rejects Islam, it's because they don't want it and don't like it.

edit on 20-9-2012 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

This is the main reason I believe.

Fear of the unknown leads to distance and hating the unknown and before you know it - all alien want to invade earth, all the while, the aliens just wanna see whats make us tick.

It is undeniable some Muslim the aggressors, but so do others. Yet due to "fear of the unknown' its blown out of proportions and exaggerated by others. We got white supremacy, black brotherhood, M13, Nazis, drug cartel etc, but they are 'known entity' thus 'normal threat'.

'Look! its a flying saucers, mannn, at that speed they can easily down a military jet! Lucky us they not landing here'. The UFO actually evading a meteor shower while checking a thypoon buildup.

When Islam gone...look, hes Chinese...

No, I'm not buying it, the only images we see in the Muslim world are barbaric.....I used to work at a store next to a Pakistani business....after 9/11 they reached out to us....how could I treat them bad?

My dad spent 5 years in Morrocco, he made many friends there....I currently have many Pakistani friends now all Muslim.....I couldn't imagine basing our friendships on media propaganda.

In my experience, I have an entirely different perspective of Muslims, and I can't hate them.

I'll leave you with this.......m.youtube.com...#/watch?v=TWgEUGnuwpk

Because the main point of the topic is not Islam, it's the polarization of people based on false ideas about a minority group.

I believe there will always be people who think they are educated , yet they are not. There is also always going to be people who are just downright stupid.

Some people are generally unhappy and isolated with their own lives and to have an outlet for that enables them to feel somewhat part of a team.

It is obviously fashionable at the moment to slur muslims. It used to be fashionable to slur disabled people and blacks. But that is not fashionable anymore. I would imagine every race, color and creed have taken their turn in being on the receiving end of slur.

Is the proganda driven with a sinister intent? Or, is it driven by the people , the consumer and it just so happens to be the flavor at this point.

The media may present situations to the masses, but ultimately the masses are the end user. When sales and interests drop, new topics will be introduced.

Ultimately the end user is to use discretion. If they can't then really are they educated enough to comment ?