I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

(All references below are Swanson's non-GMO Soy or Sunflower Lecithin Granules)

I see various comments in the thread that Sunflower Lecithin is "better" , "safer", "more suitable" than Soy Lecithin....

In fact, I, myself, wanted to "like" Sunflower Lecithin so when I ran out of Soy Lecithin I tried Sunflower Lecithin and had a pronounced allergic reaction to the Sunflower.....

I went back to the Soy and have had no further problems...

In fact, I believe that we are doing a disservice to this Lip-C concept and Thread by making unequivocal statements that one can react to one form of Lecithin but not the other....ie that soy is inferior to sunflower...or vice versa....

Consider the new person who tries and even persists with Lip-C with a lecithin derived from a source (soy OR sunflower) to which they are allergic....and let me say that allergic reactions can be severe....

We have to think in terms of Biochemical Individuality and be mindful of our own personal biases when counselling others....

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks,

Tarasco

Julie Washington...

Thanks for the comment re false high blood glucose pin prick readings....it rang a bell for me...!

While my pin prick readings were/are elevated while using Lip-C the HbA1C readings are going down....though it's early days....my next HbA1C blood test is a month away....

The pin prick readings are still high so I'm really curious to see the new HbA1C reading....

en.wikipedia.org...

Regards,

reply to post by Tarasco


I don't have the link right in front of me... maybe find it tomorrow.

There was a group that was testing the false readings and found it WAS a false reading limited to the home test kit. They actually went to the doctor and had the professional lab test and the reading was different.

They were wondering if the home test kit was actually measuring the Vit-C and thought it might be a useful tool to test Vit-C levels.

I'll see what I can find.

nwillis
1. I read on another site that you can build a tolerance to LVC, effectively needing more and more to do the same effect. Has anyone found this to be true or untrue?

I have seen no indicators of tolerance in terms of a graduated dosage need. However, I've seen indicators that the body does adapt to the quantity, by which I mean systems all over rely on C and get used to finally having enough of it for once, which is not quite the same thing.

In the former case (your example) one would need 4g ascorbic to get the same effect as 1g you took months before; I do not believe this is so, though I can't say for sure. In the latter case (my example) one can take 10g ascorbic daily but if you abruptly stop taking it, your body is going to be more-deficient-than-usual in C because all the systems started functioning in the context of having it.

And the body will re-adapt but you'll be in mild scurvy for a few days and are likely to get sick with anything that passes during that time if my own experience is any guide.

2. What is the vitamin c content of taking 1g of LVC solution? I know that if i take 1g of normal vit c I'll absorb about 15% (effectively 150g vit c). I know that absorption rate of LVC is much higher but I also know that 1g of solution isn't 1g of vit c, so I guess my question is what amount of LVC solution is equivalent to 1g of ascorbic acid in terms of what's absorbed?

Scroll back a page or three max, I posted some average stats for someone.

Julie Washington
reply to post by Ragnarokkr

 

I think there is too much emphasis made on the bubbles.

When making mine, I have very little bubbles.

As long as you're final product isn't separating, I wouldn't be concerned.

Regarding the metallic taste: Is it a new machine? Did you clean it first? Run a plain water batch first?

Some have reported a metallic taste with new machines.

I agree with Julie. I only asked about your steps to make sure it was all in line. I don't think there is any rule it HAS to be bubbly. Mine usually is but I think I've had at least one batch that mysteriously wasn't much.

The color of mine is more like a slightly blanched almond (a 'light tan') than milky.

I don't know about the metallic taste, except that a new machine might cause that at first. Or maybe that's just how you interpret something taste-wise. In generally my overview of the taste is "vile" either way.

If your formula does not separate, and if any sourness is very mild (there will be at least a little, this is not 100% encapsulation), then it is probably fine.

If you can take a lot more of the stuff per day without stool issues than you can ordinary C then you know your body is getting more of the C. Smaller doses more often are more ideal for this stuff, both for what you can absorb without bowel issues and just for function.

RedCairo
1 cups water + 45g lecithin
1/2 (0.5) cup water + 15g ascorbic
1.5 cups (~354g [~236g per cup of water]) + 60g ingredients
So you end up with about ~415g of formula.
There are ~29.5735g per ounce of water (note: differs for other substances)
So that's around 14oz of formula when you are done.
Assuming the ascorbic is distributed equally (it actually won't be, some % will be unencapsulated and in my experience if let sit a bit will rise toward the top of the container), that would be 0.93g of ascorbic per ounce of liquid formula.

Assuming on encapsulation values here:
50% encapsulated is 0.465g encaps per oz (very high absorption)
- and the rest unencapsulated (10-18% absorption plain, 5-15% more if buffered)
79% encapsulated is 0.7347 encaps per oz (very high absorption)
- and the rest unencapsulated (10-18% absorption plain, 5-15% more if buffered)

So you're getting about 5.88g encapsulated in 8oz of formula, plus whatever is outside that.
Due to the greater absoprtion rate compared to taking C orally though, this may be worth many times as much.

edit on 30-1-2014 by RedCairo because: (no reason given)

Hi RedCairo thanks for getting back to me I'm not sure how I missed this post. Why do you use 50% and 79% encapsulation as examples? And what % of this is typically absorbed? Just out of interest how much do you take per day for noticeable benefits? Thanks again!

RedCairo
I have seen no indicators of tolerance in terms of a graduated dosage need. However, I've seen indicators that the body does adapt to the quantity, by which I mean systems all over rely on C and get used to finally having enough of it for once, which is not quite the same thing.

In the former case (your example) one would need 4g ascorbic to get the same effect as 1g you took months before; I do not believe this is so, though I can't say for sure. In the latter case (my example) one can take 10g ascorbic daily but if you abruptly stop taking it, your body is going to be more-deficient-than-usual in C because all the systems started functioning in the context of having it.

And the body will re-adapt but you'll be in mild scurvy for a few days and are likely to get sick with anything that passes during that time if my own experience is any guide.

Thanks this does make sense. I guess it's like any supplement in that if you stop taking it you'll notice you're not feeling the same benefits. Thanks

nwillis
Hi RedCairo thanks for getting back to me I'm not sure how I missed this post. Why do you use 50% and 79% encapsulation as examples? And what % of this is typically absorbed? Just out of interest how much do you take per day for noticeable benefits? Thanks again!

The original DIY recipe, frozen and reviewed in a lab (thanks to Dr. Brooks Bradley), indicated an approximately 79% encapsulation rate. That does not speak to the size of the liposomes mind you (I'm told that anything over 200nm will be disassembled at the liver) but only to the encapsulation.

Later, when there was a Great Debate(tm) about the topic, and the primary commercial seller of Lipo-C hired a third party review which said "zero percent encapsulation!" (which is approximately impossible, given the nature of phospholipids, unless you did the entire process from within the equivalent of a meat locker temperature-wise, and maybe they did intentionally to get the answer desired because temp was not a variable specified in the original online idea-formula), Dr. Bradley responded with debate saying that there certainly was encapsulation and at the least it was over 50%.

So I figure for the DIY version, 50% is probably the low estimate of encapsulation, and 79% is probably the high estimate of encapsulation. (Commercial varieties are about 95+% encapsulated. Now if anybody I know could afford them... actually I've decided the lecithin is such a great and needed supplement I prefer the DIY version anyway.) The reality is that every detail is slightly variable for people making the DIY version, so not only is there the likelihood of it being a little diff for everyone, but it's likely a little diff even for the same person on different batches. Since there is no telling really, I provided the high and low estimates (both) and people depending on their experience with it could probably choose a number from somewhere in that spectrum that they thought likely appropriate to what they're doing.

The percentage absorbed will be, as noted in the post, whatever amount is encapsulated, along with about 15-18% of the remaining plain ascorbic (of the unencapsulated portion), or more than that (uncertain) if the remaining ascorbic was buffered (such as with potassium, magnesium, or sodium bicarbonate).

However, if you take these doses in small amounts often, the body is better able to absorb the unencapsulated portion (use it for "doing stuff" while it's on the way between your mouth and your bottom) and you can often absorb much more of it that way (which also means less or no stool issues).

Some info/notes I have if you're looking for reading material hypernutrient.blogspot.com...

reply to post by RedCairo


I think that several testimonies of people who have used both versions, often saying that home made seems stronger, is a good hint where the truth is. But for me the main argument in favor of DIY recipe is that I can directly sense the 'well being' effect of the DIY recipe within 10 minutes after taking 1 oz dose (including in blinded tests of empty sonicated lecithin vs one encapsulated with ascorbate, arranged with my wife). Of course, the lack of digestive disruption at doses that normally would cause me problems is an additional factor in favor.

Ultimately, the feedback from one's own cellular biochemical networks trumps it all. One cell of your little toe knows more biochemistry and molecular biology than all the researchers in the world, with all their technology put together.

After all, if one were to create a world team of biochemists and medical researchers with unlimited resources and given them a task to build one live cell from simple molecules, they wouldn't even have a clue how to build one live organelle, a tiny organ of a cell, much less the whole live cell, not mention 100 trillions of cells which work harmoniously together in a whole organism. Yet, your own cells have accomplished this magic of molecular scale bioengineering thousands of times while you read this paragraph. The deep knowledge that cellular biochemical networks have about physics, biochemistry and life processes is eons ahead of anything our human scale science knows or can even imagine.

RedCairo

nwillis
Hi RedCairo thanks for getting back to me I'm not sure how I missed this post. Why do you use 50% and 79% encapsulation as examples? And what % of this is typically absorbed? Just out of interest how much do you take per day for noticeable benefits? Thanks again!

The original DIY recipe, frozen and reviewed in a lab (thanks to Dr. Brooks Bradley), indicated an approximately 79% encapsulation rate. That does not speak to the size of the liposomes mind you (I'm told that anything over 200nm will be disassembled at the liver) but only to the encapsulation.

Later, when there was a Great Debate(tm) about the topic, and the primary commercial seller of Lipo-C hired a third party review which said "zero percent encapsulation!" (which is approximately impossible, given the nature of phospholipids, unless you did the entire process from within the equivalent of a meat locker temperature-wise, and maybe they did intentionally to get the answer desired because temp was not a variable specified in the original online idea-formula), Dr. Bradley responded with debate saying that there certainly was encapsulation and at the least it was over 50%.

So I figure for the DIY version, 50% is probably the low estimate of encapsulation, and 79% is probably the high estimate of encapsulation. (Commercial varieties are about 95+% encapsulated. Now if anybody I know could afford them... actually I've decided the lecithin is such a great and needed supplement I prefer the DIY version anyway.) The reality is that every detail is slightly variable for people making the DIY version, so not only is there the likelihood of it being a little diff for everyone, but it's likely a little diff even for the same person on different batches. Since there is no telling really, I provided the high and low estimates (both) and people depending on their experience with it could probably choose a number from somewhere in that spectrum that they thought likely appropriate to what they're doing.

The percentage absorbed will be, as noted in the post, whatever amount is encapsulated, along with about 15-18% of the remaining plain ascorbic (of the unencapsulated portion), or more than that (uncertain) if the remaining ascorbic was buffered (such as with potassium, magnesium, or sodium bicarbonate).

However, if you take these doses in small amounts often, the body is better able to absorb the unencapsulated portion (use it for "doing stuff" while it's on the way between your mouth and your bottom) and you can often absorb much more of it that way (which also means less or no stool issues).

Some info/notes I have if you're looking for reading material hypernutrient.blogspot.com...

edit on 24-2-2014 by RedCairo because: (no reason given)

Brilliant thanks mate!

So I did a slight experiment. I have not done a lot of this sort of thing because I know jack about chemistry and trust Dr. Brooks Bradley to have a better idea, but he is the one who has often insisted people "experiment around the edges" because as he puts it, "it isn't rocket science."

So after some of the posts on this thread talking about putting more water with the ascorbic and less with the lecithin I decided to try that.

I reduced my 240g water to 180g water for the lecithin. And (I already had it premade) I used 180g water with the ascorbic instead of 120g. So basically I just moved 60g of the water from the pre-blended lecithin to the pre-blended ascorbic part.

As a side effect this also results in 22.5 instead of 15.0 grams of ascorbic in the batch. (I make three batches at a time.)

The lecithin was thicker as a result, a little more gloppy more like light gravy than fluid. It thickened more on surface of water like there was more than the water could truly absorb.

The resultant formula had less foam/bubbles than my normal with these ingredients/process. It resulted in the same blanched-almond color and the same texture. It does not appear to be falling out of emulsion at least yet (2 days out). The taste appears to be about the same, it is a bit variable even in my normal approach even within the same batch, and I've only drank about 1/8 of the formula from this one so far. So far if anything it's probably less sour not more.

So this appears to have worked, and it appears that as a side-effect I have 50% more ascorbic in the same amount of formula.

Has anyone tried Liposoming R-Alpha Lipoic Acid...?

RedCairo
So I did a slight experiment. I have not done a lot of this sort of thing because I know jack about chemistry and trust Dr. Brooks Bradley to have a better idea, but he is the one who has often insisted people "experiment around the edges" because as he puts it, "it isn't rocket science."

So after some of the posts on this thread talking about putting more water with the ascorbic and less with the lecithin I decided to try that.

I reduced my 240g water to 180g water for the lecithin. And (I already had it premade) I used 180g water with the ascorbic instead of 120g. So basically I just moved 60g of the water from the pre-blended lecithin to the pre-blended ascorbic part.

As a side effect this also results in 22.5 instead of 15.0 grams of ascorbic in the batch. (I make three batches at a time.)

The lecithin was thicker as a result, a little more gloppy more like light gravy than fluid. It thickened more on surface of water like there was more than the water could truly absorb.

The resultant formula had less foam/bubbles than my normal with these ingredients/process. It resulted in the same blanched-almond color and the same texture. It does not appear to be falling out of emulsion at least yet (2 days out). The taste appears to be about the same, it is a bit variable even in my normal approach even within the same batch, and I've only drank about 1/8 of the formula from this one so far. So far if anything it's probably less sour not more.

So this appears to have worked, and it appears that as a side-effect I have 50% more ascorbic in the same amount of formula.

Sounds interesting, the only thing I'd question is how well the thicker mixture would sonicate and form liposomes - I imagine a lower viscosity is required so to be better permeated by the ultra sonic waves.

I still think that mixing both together in all the water at the same time results in better liposomal encapsulation -

Check my previous post out for the method I use (and my reasoning behind doing so)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tarasco
Has anyone tried Liposoming R-Alpha Lipoic Acid...?

Not tried personally but I know livon labs make that stuff -

www.livonlabs.com...

might be worth a go (although not put any research into it personally) - glutathione is another one I've been meaning to try.

boxertwin
Sounds interesting, the only thing I'd question is how well the thicker mixture would sonicate and form liposomes - I imagine a lower viscosity is required so to be better permeated by the ultra sonic waves.

It is the same amount of water as before. The less water in the lecithin is only for the initial blending -- as I pre-blend and store the lecithin-water and ascorbic-water for a day (...or vastly longer) before I make the stuff. When I later made it, I used a larger amount of the ascorbic-water. So in the end, the formula has the same amount of water in it either way. The reason for putting more of the water with the ascorbic was to dissolve more ascorbic in it. Make sense?

Iwinder

Originally posted by reficul
i hope this concoction isn't the same one that is turning people into flesh eating zombies!!!

can you over dose on viamin C ?

I believe this is a serious thread and maybe perhaps you should respect the OP and not make light of it.
Regards, Iwinder

I believe it's mostly BS. What he sais I do without it and for the rest it is subjective.
There is no scientific proof of than kind of effect when you take vit C

Bangorak

Iwinder

Originally posted by reficul
i hope this concoction isn't the same one that is turning people into flesh eating zombies!!!

can you over dose on viamin C ?

I believe this is a serious thread and maybe perhaps you should respect the OP and not make light of it.
Regards, Iwinder

I believe it's mostly BS. What he sais I do without it and for the rest it is subjective.
There is no scientific proof of than kind of effect when you take vit C

2 words: Linus Pauling.

The End!!!!

By the way, you've never taken this concoction, and so all you can add is pure unbalanced, one sided, blind skepticism. ATS'ers see through that all day long. Regardless, good luck on your mission, you'll need it

dominicus
2 words: Linus Pauling.

The favorite combo of Linus Pauling was Vitamin C + Lysine in 1:1 weight ratio. The latter complements Vitamin C, by among others, boosting production of elastin, which is vital for elasticity of arteries as well as of other tissues & organs (skin, joints, etc). I started making this combo last few batches. I first dissolve Lysine powder in 1.5 cup of water, then use 1 cup of that for lecithin blending and half cup for Sodium Ascorbate as in regular recipe.

I use it also for skin lotion, aftershave (with a bit of alcohol) and a mouthwash. The latter not only fixed the problems with sensitive/bleeding gums (which have noticeably firmed up and stopped bleeding with flossing & harder brushes) but has resolved completely the chronic inflammation & abscesses in the root of one molar which dentists insisted required either root canal or extraction plus implant. These problems are now completely gone as if I never had them.

nightlight7

dominicus
2 words: Linus Pauling.

The favorite combo of Linus Pauling was Vitamin C + Lysine in 1:1 weight ratio. The latter complements Vitamin C, by among others, boosting production of elastin, which is vital for elasticity of arteries as well as of other tissues & organs (skin, joints, etc). I started making this combo last few batches. I first dissolve Lysine powder in 1.5 cup of water, then use 1 cup of that for lecithin blending and half cup for Sodium Ascorbate as in regular recipe.

I use it also for skin lotion, aftershave (with a bit of alcohol) and a mouthwash. The latter not only fixed the problems with sensitive/bleeding gums (which have noticeably firmed up and stopped bleeding with flossing & harder brushes) but has resolved completely the chronic inflammation & abscesses in the root of one molar which dentists insisted required either root canal or extraction plus implant. These problems are now completely gone as if I never had them.

Hey Nightlight,
Awesome reply!!!!!

I got some issues with gums as well, and a couple of teeth that have had a corner or chipped/broken off. The only thing for me that has been able to keep cavities at bay has been twice daily coconut oil brushing, rinsing, gargling. There was a study years ago that coconut oil destroys the bacteria that produce cavities, and it has worked on me.

The Lysine trick is sure to be added to my list of natural wonders