I make my own liposomal vit C. This stuff is frickin AMAZING!!!!!

I found another recipe online that adds 1 Tbsp. of bicarbonate soda to get blood ph balanced, I tried it and there was no sour taste at all. Has anyone else tried this? Should the bicarbonate soda rid the sour taste?

reply to post by Ragnarokkr

I use ready made sodium ascorbate, which is what you get when you add baking soda to ascorbic acid.

Ragnarokkr
I found another recipe online that adds 1 Tbsp. of bicarbonate soda to get blood ph balanced, I tried it and there was no sour taste at all. Has anyone else tried this? Should the bicarbonate soda rid the sour taste?

Yes, because it is neutralizing the acid in ascorbic acid.

My friend has just been diagnosed with throat cancer.
Does anyone have any info in what way using liposomal is best.
I already make and take the drink but am I best using baking soda with the liposomal vitamin c for my friend ?

I'd be grateful for some information and on how to make the drink using baking soda !

Has anyone considered using the Heating Method aka Mozafari Method to form liposomes? It's an easy one step sonication free, organic solvent free, large scale liposome production method.

Here's an excerpt:

The heating method involves hydration of the ingredients of the carrier system for ca. 1 hour, followed by heating and stirring (less than 1,000 rpm) the ingredients and the active compound(s) to be encapsulated, in the presence of a polyol, such as glycerol, at 40–120°C. The process temperature is based on the properties of the liposomal ingredients, presence or absence of cholesterol, and characteristics of the material to be encapsulated (Mozafari et al., 2002; Mozafari, 2005; Mortazavi et al., 2007; Mozafari et al., 2007) . Recently, Mozafari and colleagues showed that nanoliposomes prepared by the heating method are completely nontoxic toward cultured cells, while nanoliposomes prepared by a conventional method, using volatile solvents, showed significant levels of cytotoxicity (Mozafari et al., 2007). A further improved version of the heating method, called the Mozafari method, has recently been employed for the encapsulation and targeted delivery of the food-grade antimicrobial nisin (Colas et al., 2007). The Mozafari method allows the manufacture of the carrier systems in one step without the need for the pr ehydration of ingredient material, and without employing toxic solvents or detergents from sm all scales to large, industrial scales (Colas et al., 2007).

courses.engr.uky.edu...

Why is the glycerol necessary, I wonder?

In my early reading on this I saw that the lecithin did not function as non-liposomal ('open') until about 110 F or so, and that coming down from that temp it would form liposomes, enclosing the medium in which it was present. I think that "impact-encapsulation" as I call using a paint gun or something, is different than "thermal-encapsulation" as I call what I do. (Even though the idea was originally based on Brooks Bradley trying to find a home DIY approach to replicating what Thomas Levy (LivOn) was doing, which was impact-based.)

So I soak both lecithin and AA in water overnight or longer. Then I heat the lecithin-water to usually around 115-120, and then add the refrigerated AA-water (~ 40 F) which drops the temp fast (hence liposomes are forming) and I blend them together in the high-speed bullet blender. I also tend to do much longer sonification (8min cycles, usually 6-7 of them, separated). This seems to work very well, as long as I don't let the formula heat up (so I tend to do long times between the separate sonification cycles just to make sure it doesn't).

I've never used glycerin, though. I have some vegetable glycerin in the fridge, that I had gotten for some potential lip-balm making. I wonder how health/not glycerin is, though, to add into this mix?

For those looking for the recipe again, here is a link to Pdazzler's website with instructions:

It has both the original recipe and the pH balanced recipe.

Pdazzler Liposomal Vitamin C

His website also has links to research about killing cancer with Lipo-C.

RedCairo

So I soak both lecithin and AA in water overnight or longer. Then I heat the lecithin-water to usually around 115-120,

Is there any reference for the Tc (critical temperature) for the lecithin liposome formation? I also use water at 115 F for blending lecithin alone (before Vitamin C is blended in). In few papers where Tc's appear, such as the above paper, Tc seems to depend great deal on the precise phospholipids used. Had someone found out the Tc is for the sunflower or soy lecithin?

No idea on the specifics. Someone I cannot recall but whose opinion I respected wrote in regards to the DIY-C that the lecithin had to get to above 110 F in order for cooling to form liposomes, and I'm sorry I don't remember the ref, I tend to remember concepts better than details.

In order to avoid confusion, new readers should see the original recipe as linked in the post above by Julie.

reply to post by dominicus

This is very interesting. This guy (no ads on site) has a slightly alternate way of making Liposomal C, and apparently the equipment (and a lab for checking) to measure by. His 4-page website shows how he goes about it, here:

qualityliposomalc.com...

The differences between the 'standard' way seem to be that:
* he heats the ascorbic to dissolve it in water, not high enough to inactivate it though
* he adds 10x the ascorbic, saying vastly more should dissolve in water than the standard formula
* he creates the dissolved-ascorbic-water and uses THAT to soak the lecithin, rather than separate water, as he says more C can be encapsulated that way
* this is the big one: he claims that LivOn Labs patent indicates that the alcohol in their formula (which is significant %) is not just for preservation but part of the effective creation of the small liposomes.
* he also has a process where he 'forces out the bubbles created by blending' (though I think my long sonicating times, with lots of cooling time in between, actually do this naturally).

Anyway, see the link for the details. I thought some folks here might be interested. The question on separate water, and quantity of dissolving ascorbic, has been posed on this thread in the past.

reply to post by RedCairo


Very interesting, lots of good info and potential experimentation. Not sure about alcohol, though, who wants to be drunk all day when work is waiting.

Yeah, I told the guy on my own blog that the alcohol part was pretty confusing to me esp. as it's not good for the liver.

I have been searching for and reading what I can find on making liposomes and alcohols but so far, everything I find merely suggests that it "can" be used -- in a science or commercial setting where, as a solvent, is then *removed* -- for certain approaches to making liposomes but not to the one we're using with the sonicator bath. So far I cannot find any sign of why this would be helpful.

It is possible that the combination of alcohol and heat he's using up front does cause a greater dissolution of the ascorbic since he's using 10x the amount of AA. I once did an experiment with just about the same quantities of everything but more ascorbic and it was more sour, suggesting that not all of it had encapsulated. If his isn't then it's hard to imagine he could even drink the stuff with 10x more in it.

reply to post by RedCairo


Thanks for sharing that link and recipe.

I will be reading it thoroughly.

Right off the bat I like the thought of making it 20x stronger

a reply to: RedCairo

I think one useful bit, ignoring the alcohol, is the cycling of cooling and sonification, which I had evolved my recipe toward already (after reading in some papers that cold sonification, below 75-80F, produces smaller liposomes). From that patent, the liposomes by that procedure seem too large, well above 200 nm, which may have to do with higher lecithin density (at high density adjacent smaller liposomes merge into larger ones). Interestingly, from the comparisons in the patent, the commercial Liposomal C has even larger liposomes, above 500 nm (which are not suitable for direct cellular delivery).

My take for immediate next experiments is to keep the sonification temperature below 75F, and do multiple larger cycles, with cooling it in the fridge down to 35-40F.

Through experiment, I found that by keeping a 2 cup glass jar filled with ice cubes & water in the tub (this is the larger UC unit), in the tub corner during the ultrasound active phase and using it to stir the mixture in between the ultrasonic start/stop cycles, keeps the temperature around 70-75F. The initial ice cubes did melt away and needed to be replenished once during the 1/2 hour process. Without this cooling the temperature would rise to 95-100F in the same interval.

a reply to: nightlight7

Maybe thats why it has worked so well for me. Had no heat outside rooms. first cycle was lukewarm dumped in very cold tub. and it sat for 1 or more hours between about 6 cycles getting very cold in between. now that the temp is reasonable in my livingroom I will have to make a new process!

pls excuse errors, I am lousy on cel txt

Sorry I haven't responded in a while. I started having complications
from surgery in Dec & still ongoing.

I started this regime in March 2013 & I have NOT been sick period.
Right now I am low on ingredients so I haven't been able to take full
dose for the past couple of weeks. I will order more Sunflower Liq Lecithin
tonight or tomorrow.

I can't wait to see if there really is a huge difference in adding alcohol.
The alcohol is just another expense for me sense Julie's recipe is awesome.

Thanks Red Cairo & Julie Washington for still being here & updating.

Cheers
Ektar

PS Julie I hope you mum is still doing well, mine just passed 2 weeks ago.

On using baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) for any unencapsulated ascorbic acid: I thought maybe I should mention, for anybody who might not know this, that there are multiple kinds of bicarbonates and they would all work. Sodium is a mineral, as are the other bicarbonates I know of, such as magnesium and potassium.

So if you're working to get more of either of those things into your body (most people don't need to try to get enough sodium, but most do have to make an effort to get enough magnesium and potassium), you could use one of those forms instead.

For those who don't have a local place, I get stuff at purebulk dot com (no affiliation with it, just a ref), they have just about everything in pure form. (For poor people, buying bulk and capping your own supplements [little capping things and gelatin caps avail at amazon] is vastly-cheaper and often has far less fillers.)

I hadn't realized initially that bicarbonate came in other forms besides sodium so I just thought I'd mention it.

I don't usually use it. Like lecithin doesn't taste bad enough already...

originally posted by: Ektar
Thanks Red Cairo & Julie Washington for still being here & updating.

Cheers
Ektar

PS Julie I hope you mum is still doing well, mine just passed 2 weeks ago.

Awe, sorry to hear, my condolences.


Still use it daily here, works for addictions too, like smoking, heroin, alcoholism......

Another confirmation of encapsulation

Yesterday I was first time making Liposomal C using plain Ascorbic Acid (AA; all previous batches were with sodium ascorbate). I wanted to verify via the Brooks Bradley baking soda test the encapsulation in the cold sonification process that was recently brought up here.

The mixture started at ~55F (from the fridge) and during the ~30min sonification, I kept it at 60-70F (by keeping a glass jar filled with water and ice cubes in the tub and to stir the liquid with). The baking soda test showed a good sonification (70% or more; I had doubled the dose of AA & lecithin in the 1.5 cup recipe so Bradley's numbers were not accurate measure; I also kept pouring in baking soda solution until no more foam was produced).

But then, I figured, let me encapsulate the rest, so I poured the liquid back into the UC, then covered the tub to start one more cycle. Within a second of pressing ON, the tub lid was thrown off on the floor, followed by the massive amounts of foam pouring out, that covered the whole unit and the surrounding table. It all went so fast, there was no way to stop the huge mess even though I instinctively pulled the plug almost instantly, as soon as I saw the lid lifting up.

What the experiment shows is that there was a great deal of encapsulated AA that didn't interact with the baking soda until the ultrasound started breaking up the liposomes and previously encapsulated AA interacted and neutralized with the excess baking soda in the surrounding liquid.

Another more important feature of the process shown is that the already formed liposomes constantly break up and reconstitute under the ultrasound, mixing their content with the surrounding liquid throughout the process.

The implication of this is that it is not necessary at all to dissolve ascorbate upfront in the full 1.5 cup of liquid before the initial blending with lecithin (in order to fill up the initial liposomes with ascorbate solution, as some, including myself have started doing lately). Basically, in the Brooks Bradley recipe, where initially the blending phase uses only water and lecithin, then adds solution of ascorbate, works just fine because the liposomes which initially had just water inside are broken and reformed after mixing their content with the surrounding liquid that contains the ascorbate.

The upfront adding of the ascorbate to the solution is not even desirable since the heavy, longer agitation of lecithin with metal blades in the initially warmer water (which warms further by the blender) is bound to destroy some ascorbate.

As result, I will return to the original 2 phase Bradley scheme, where lecithin and water are well mixed, then cooled, before any ascorbate is added.

But I will keep the cold sonification aspect, which clearly works and is preferable for multiple reasons to the warmer variant (which I was using previously, allowing liquid to go up to 100F in the UC), since

a) more ascorbate is preserved undamaged, in active (reduced) state and

b) from liposomal papers and patents, the colder process yields smaller liposomes (below 100 nm) since the adjacent liposomes merge into larger at higher rate in the warmer liquid. In the colder liquid the dominant process is the breakdown and reforming of the existent liposomes. One can easily see this kind of temperature dependency with oil droplets in the water -- in the cold water, the round droplets remain small and separate, while in the warm or hot water, the droplets boundaries dissolve and the adjacent droplets merge into larger oily blobs.