Understanding Gnosticism; or, a quest for accurate knowledge

reply to post by wildtimes

I'm still trying to dig out a sensible and less-rhetorical answer from him, but I suspect it's doomed....as per previously.

You can read my attempt back in May. www.abovetopsecret.com...
This is the post where I started in on him to get a definition of his beliefs.
If someone wanted, you can follow along the conversation as it progressed from this point.
I got clued in when I saw odd looking slogans in his posts which I did not recognize and googled everything I found and it all came up as Messianic Judaism, and I started asking him until he finally admitted to it.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I got that message too,
and when SuperiorEd got banned he was on the (edit to correct: not BTS, but...) ATS Secret Societies forum about Freemasonry....
he came back on that thread and said he was banned for his "username" and encouraged to come back in a new incarnation.
Here's a link to the thread during which it occurred www.abovetopsecret.com...
and here is the post that is the big reveal:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by jmdewey60

If someone wanted, you can follow along the conversation as it progressed from this point.
I got clued in when I saw odd looking slogans in his posts which I did not recognize and googled everything I found and it all came up as Messianic Judaism, and I started asking him until he finally admitted to it.

Really!! ?
I will check it out.
That was in May, and his Gospel of Thomas thread was in July.

So....has he changed his stance? He seems to be very "Christian" oriented at this point, and pushing the 'come to the cross and repent' doctrine.

reply to post by wildtimes

. . . for his "username" and encouraged to come back in a new incarnation.

That was another option I was considering, since ATS did come out a while back with an announcement not to be supporting or promoting other web sites or something, I took it to mean other competing forums but it could have had a larger scope.
But still, that may be one case and I think the log-in debacle caused most of the other apparent "bans".
The other thing I don't know. I did have this "moment of clarity" but since then it is always this sort of talking around things.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by rwfresh

 

If you trouble yourself with the validity of the story of man/Jesus you risk your own salvation.

Ah, I see. Fear and threats of condemnation if I don't believe what you are telling me to believe...
sorry, but
I don't play that game, thanks very much.

It is not up to any other human being to tell me I'm "risking my own salvation." When someone tells me that, I generally dismiss their opinions as nonsense, and particularly if that someone offers no links or sources other than their own fantabulous knowledge which overrides everyone else's.

Why? Because it's unkind, and un-Christlike, and I won't participate in that kind of behavior

My salvation is not at risk, my friend.

Neither is yours, but nevertheless, trying to scare people into doing what you say is a major Fail with me. It's why I left organized religion in the first place (Episcopal/Church of England).
I didn't subscribe to what I was hearing from the first moments of comprehension; that I was unworthy, hopeless, and doomed.

The Truth, to use your word, is that Jesus's spirit -- the Divine spirit -- resides in us all, and we really don't need to worry or be afraid. What we can do is dispel that fear, by treating others the way we want to be treated. Fear-mongering is the opposite of Christ's teaching.

Our destination, or 'destiny' is what it is. That is the Truth. It does not depend on somone knowing or not knowing, believing or not believing. We are born again ... we 'must be'. And when we realize this, and that our spirits do not die, we can relax and enjoy our life, and by doing so, encourage others to LET GO of their fear.

It's all gonna be okay.

You got me all wrong. I don't care about your salvation. In fact i think you got the bible, Buddha, spirituality and salvation all wrong too. You cannot be saved. The "person" writing this email is temporal and not savable. Whatever you think you are trying to figure out to or evolve (in)to is an illusion. And this illusion ("me") you are talking to about it will lose no sleep knowing that fake, temporal illusions are not persistent in the undying truth of Reality and eternity.

And when i read the Gospel of Thomas that is what i read from it. Truth and Truth alone are one and free and beyond illusion. You are not evolving or anything like that. You are not unfolding or uncovering your spark of God. It's all a fairy tale illusion your ego props up as a self-preservation technique.

Oil and water don't mix. Just like non-reality and Reality don't mix. "Me" and "you" are not real in the Context of God. Every single author of Jesus takes him out of context because it is not possible to put him in context. That is the big "secret" of the gnostics.

I'm not here to try and get you to follow my doctrine or to praise Jesus. Truth needs nothing from us. Love needs nothing from us. Reality is not dependent on illusion. It's the other way around.

Peace and Love!

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Hey Enoch, thanks for the messages! I read everything and agree with something important.. and that is where you are coming from. 100%. I just read a bunch more of this thread and discovered you are SuperiorEd.. we've yapped before in other threads and i wondered where you were at! ha..

Peace brother!

Originally posted by wildtimes
In the Tibetan Book of the Dead www.summum.us... these spiritual frightening beings (the Archons of James) are encountered by every person as they venture across, alone and unaided.
The severity of the experience is determined by "karma" built up during the lifetime of the dying. A person's unique journey will be a reflection of his performance during life. The guru assures the dying that these things are "from your own imagination only", they are "created by your mind", and are frightening to the degree that you perceived they would be while living...
this karmic debt is paid off during the process of crossing over. It is NOT an eternal damnation...the debt paid, the soul returns to its source for rest and reflection, and then (if necessary) goes forth again into a new womb.

The guru even lends courage and good thoughts that the person's place of landing next will be not to a life of sorrow and hardship, but rather to a kind and comforting place.

Then you come back, into whatever lifetime it was deemed most appropriate by your soul in conference with the ethereal guides assigned to you, and you once again start as if from scratch, but your soul's knowledge retains its ultimate Truth. We are forgetful of the in-between time, and usually if we remember our previous life, either as a little child, or later in life, that is a wonderful thing...
but I have yet to come across anyone who has for their entire life had full retention of a previous lifetime.

Does anyone know of someone who has? (Aside from Jesus, obviously he was aware).

" frightening to the degree that you perceived they would be while living..."
In what sense???"they" is something "living" or a "condition"???

and about the guru saying that" the person's place of landing next will be not to a life of sorrow and hardship, but rather to a kind and comforting place. " that applies for everyone??his students??or??

It is currently 4am,lol,btw is it just me or ATS forum is lagging ??

reply to post by wildtimes

So....Ed, you do believe in reincarnation? You furthermore agree that we are all going to get there?

I believe what the Bible says about the issue and the fact that it's a mystery. You really need to read the article on Water and Baptism linked below in my signature. You won't be sorry. This is my view. Transmigration of the soul is what I see from the scriptures. Reincarnation is similar, but connected to being a blade of grass and an animal. Transmigration is what John 3 describes and what the Hebrews have believed since the time of Job. Again, read the article. It covers the Biblical mystery.

I never said that we all make it, nor does my word matter on the subject. I did say God is capable and that God is love. The real mystery may very well be that Love keeps no record of wrongs. There is a final judgment we know about when evil is judged. This implies other judgments that come before as we read in Hebrews 9:27-28. As I noted before, it also says that the first are last and the last are first. It also says that few find the way to salvation. It depends on the heart. Speaking of the heart, there is also a good article linked below on Glass and Ceramic that shows another clue to this whole thing from the Gnostic Gospel of Philip. You would most likely enjoy it. It covers some sacred geometry as well as some physics. Again, it's a mystery. God never answers any question with a Zero.

To me, Zero represents all numbers and no numbers. If you add all numbers to all negative numbers, you get zero. This indicates that all numbers possible is nothing and everything all in one. Alpha and Omega. Why does this relate to truth. For God to reveal a truth at zero, the truth is fact. Faith is not fact. Can God grant us zero (infinity) and still preserve faith apart from fact? No. This is why he always leaves it at a mystery. We find the negative one clue. We also find the positive one clue. Sometimes, we are far from the tipping point to truth and become forced into a process of digging toward the zero point. By knowing negative one and positive one, either side of zero, we can see zero. We just need to choose between the two reflecting points. Example:

Aliester Crowley said "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law." Consider this the negative zero.

Jesus said this in Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Now you can see Zero. The reflecting point of the image shows both sides next to each other. If you build a catalog of these reflections, the positive one will always reveal itself by context to the rest. Seeking God shows the way. Once you reflect on truth enough, you will see what I see. The Bible is the source of the positive.

Can I be honest with you (as I always am)? You and I have met before on threads. We have shared this information back and forth. Both of us have planted seeds from our own understanding. Only seeds of truth can grow. Keep that in mind. If anything I have said has made any impact at all, realize that only truth can grow. Anything counterfeit will be dead. God's word accomplishes what He sent it to do.

This is the promise we both have from God on the subject of His truth:

Isaiah 55

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,


And this is the best part of all:


11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

We can both place our faith on this fact. God is amazing.

I love you. Don't forget that.

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Hey Enoch, thanks for the messages! I read everything and agree with something important.. and that is where you are coming from. 100%. I just read a bunch more of this thread and discovered you are SuperiorEd.. we've yapped before in other threads and i wondered where you were at! ha..

Peace brother!

When I revealed a Masonic secret in a thread, they banned me on Valentine's Day. That's Martyrs Day by the way. By they, I mean ATS, but I don't really think they did it because they are Masons. I believe that a moderator might be and I most likely offended him. Consult the Valentine's article linked in the signature below. You may find it interesting on a symbolic level.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I never said that we all make it, nor does my word matter on the subject. I did say God is capable and that God is love.

I believe everyone will make it... consider this

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Even the worst of sinners will make it... but their judgement might not turn out so good

reply to post by wildtimes

In July of last year you brought the Gospel of Thomas to the table.... it faded (unfortunately).... but your posts since I have met you seem to dismiss the Gnostic/Coptic texts as heresy.

Thomas is on a different plain of truth than many of the Gnostic texts. You need to remember that the Gnostic writers were not all divinely inspired. Many were, but some were on a mission to promote an agenda. Many were involved with pagan mysteries and looking to make a name for themselves in the world of revelation. We need to sift these documents for truth. What we can find is amazing. Really, they are not much different than you and I here. We might reveal a major truth in our search and then be way off on other topics. We can know from what I just said earlier. Truth grows as a seed and accomplishes a task we can verify. Like you said before. Context is important.

The more we study history and revelation for perspective, the more we can then sift the documents for clues. The people who wrote these Gnostic documents had access to the Library of Alexandria. When it was burned, I am convinced some of the more important truths were preserved. Additionally, others were preserved as later copies of the originals that were destroyed. Enoch 1 is a good example. God saves what is most important and the Nag Hammadi is likely in our possession for a reason. I have a published copy on my shelf. I also have a published copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also have the Dhamapada, Josephus, the Tao Te Ching, All of Rumi, The Tree of Souls (Jewish Lore), The Quran, Kabbalah for Dummies (LOL) and a room full of other sources. What other day in history could we possess such a casual collection? My iPad contains thousands of others. I'm not a casual reader. I read until my eyes bleed and I fall asleep in my chair.

Why? I don't want to miss a second of this life I live. I intend to live. Not just in my chair, but with my family. All moments are experienced and then gone. Living by God's standards is difficult, but the reward is obvious. I am a sinner like the rest. Each day is a struggle to claim victory over sin and death until we finally see Christ takes us the extra mile to the end. We are not alone in this work.

I don't say this to brag. We can only boast in Christ. I say it so you can see why I embrace some truth and shun what stands as counterfeit. There is a reason. The reason comes from what I said before. Truth must be rightly divided. Hillel's Seven Rules are worth memorizing. LINK The root context of any truth will be found at the source. All seeds grow from the root, just like language. Narrow any word down to the root and you know the story behind the word.

2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

On our best day, we are filthy rags. God knows this fact. Mercy and Grace covers our error and ignorance.

Listen to this and tell me you don't feel the truth in your entire being: LINK

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I never said that we all make it, nor does my word matter on the subject. I did say God is capable and that God is love.

I believe everyone will make it... consider this

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Even the worst of sinners will make it... but their judgement might not turn out so good

You make a good point in this. Consider what blasphemy is. The Holy Spirit, from my view, is consciousness. Specifically, it's the Great I AM consciousness that God is. Disbelief is blasphemy against the spirit. Science blasphemes God by denying consciousness as preexisting matter. Dawkins is now saying he's an agnostic. What he likely means by this is that he is realizing what science shows us.

Consider this. We know that consciousness collapses wave function. This is verified by the double slit experiment and others. This paradox with light shows us that light is both a particle and a wave. What we come to realize with the paradox of light is that consciousness determines the state of light. Consciousness is entangled with light. This implies that wave function collapse cannot occur apart from consciousness changing the states of matter. Go back and read my posts from Superiored from the beginning. I have been staying this over and over again. Consciousness is the trinity of light. Particle and wave make up our bodies. Spirit makes up our consciousness. God is all three in one. He is Light, both particle and wave with consciousness. This is the Trinity.

Father is light (all three).

Son is Wave from John 1. (In the beginning was the word/wave).

Holy Spirit is consciousness.

Light is all three. God is light.

Take this further into physics. If God is on one side and we are His image, this means that we are the image of his light. We are the trinity in image.

Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

We are 'inside' the image. We are also the image of God in the image. How did He do it? Consult Einstein and reveal it in Genesis 1

Genesis 1:1-3

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

How does Christ (Word of information and wave) fit into this as a man?

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Why can't we see God?

Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Why is God hidden and not visible?

Rumi the Sufi

The light which shines in the eye is really the light of the heart. The light which fills the heart is the light of God, which is pure and separate from the light of intellect and sense.

God created pain and sorrow that happiness might show itself by contrast. For hidden things are made manifest by means of their opposites: since God has no opposite, He is hidden.

People should really just read the Bible and then work their way out to the other classics of wisdom. God is in all corners of our world.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I've read all your threads and your former ID has gotten many stars from me...

I think we can broaden the definition of blasphemy to include physical violence... which is inflicting harm to something that is a part of God, even sacred...

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy)

IF God created all of these... dare i say even from himself... Then we see God every day... we just don't realize it.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I've read all your threads and your former ID has gotten many stars from me...

I think we can broaden the definition of blasphemy to include physical violence... which is inflicting harm to something that is a part of God, even sacred...

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy)

IF God created all of these... dare i say even from himself... Then we see God every day... we just don't realize it.

Essentially, we are so much a part of Him that our every atom is known. We can easily make the association between our own crude virtual reality of computer generation and the one God designed with the universe. Each of these shares a consciousness behind the information. The differences go way beyond what we can use to compare. There are two main differences.

1) God is part of the overall consciousness of the entire reality.

2) The reality is conscious of God.

You are currently reading my consciousness from information, in time and in space, from an image in a dimensional reality. None of this is possible apart from a source of light. Take the infinite reflections back to the moment of creation and you can see that God produced the projection, along with the storyline, complete form point A to point Z. Not only did he produce the image for us to collapse the wave as we ride time in our own finite slice of this infinite probability space, He also knows where it's all headed. Time is only the illusion of our frame of reference as we collapse the wave we use to view the story. God knows it all as one thing outside of time.

Compare this to the computer program of a virtual reality space. The user who is observing the game only sees the memory location that is being collapsed at the moment of game play. Essentially, we could be doing the same in God's story. Consider this bit of mystery in the book of Esdras.

[37] By measure hath he measured the times; and by number hath he numbered the times; and he doth not move nor stir them, until the said measure be fulfilled.
[38] Then answered I and said, O Lord that bearest rule, even we all are full of impiety.
[39] And for our sakes peradventure it is that the floors of the righteous are not filled, because of the sins of them that dwell upon the earth.
[40] So he answered me, and said, Go thy way to a woman with child, and ask of her when she hath fulfilled her nine months, if her womb may keep the birth any longer within her.
[41] Then said I, No, Lord, that can she not. And he said unto me, In the grave the chambers of souls are like the womb of a woman:
[42] For like as a woman that travaileth maketh haste to escape the necessity of the travail: even so do these places haste to deliver those things that are committed unto them.
[43] From the beginning, look, what thou desirest to see, it shall be shewed thee.

That's so amazing. Now read this one. It makes sense in the context of our discussion here.

And I said, Wherefore, Lord? whereunto was I born then? or why was not my mother's womb then my grave, that I might not have seen the travail of Jacob, and the wearisome toil of the stock of Israel?
[36] And he said unto me, Number me the things that are not yet come, gather me together the dross that are scattered abroad, make me the flowers green again that are withered,
[37] Open me the places that are closed, and bring me forth the winds that in them are shut up, shew me the image of a voice: and then I will declare to thee the thing that thou labourest to know.
[38] And I said, O Lord that bearest rule, who may know these things, but he that hath not his dwelling with men?

Notice that he is asking him to do things he cannot possibly understand. In particular, he says, "shew me the image of a voice: and then I will declare to thee the thing that thou labourest to know."

When can we know? When we can show our own image of a voice (Word). Information is the Word Christ used to create the universe (John 1:1). In other words: When we are capable of understanding, we will be shown all things. Is that now? I'm excited at the prospect.

reply to post by rwfresh

You got me all wrong. I don't care about your salvation. In fact i think you got the bible, Buddha, spirituality and salvation all wrong too. You cannot be saved.

Really !!
I have it all wrong? I can 't be 'saved'? And you don't care?
*chuckles"
Okay, um, whatever.
I'm so shame-faced and reconciled to my doom.....thanks for pointing that out.
And what is with the not-a-face in your avatar?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Can I be honest with you (as I always am)? You and I have met before on threads. We have shared this information back and forth. Both of us have planted seeds from our own understanding. Only seeds of truth can grow. Keep that in mind. If anything I have said has made any impact at all, realize that only truth can grow. Anything counterfeit will be dead. God's word accomplishes what He sent it to do.

As I, also, am honest with you.
you say "both of us have planted seeds from our own understanding"
and only seeds of truth can grow.....
has this dialogue between us deposited any seeds that found purchase in the soil of "you"?
Yes, Ed, I have absorbed and considered your "seeds", and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it has made me think.
EDIT TO ADD:

Why? I don't want to miss a second of this life I live. I intend to live. Not just in my chair, but with my family. All moments are experienced and then gone.

This ^^^ is totally Buddhist.
Live in the moment, mindfully.
So, I'm sorry, but I'm not clear on your stance about reincarnation and the Gnostic writings exposed in the Nag Hammadi texts.
regardless,may I believe that my posts have made you 'think' as well?

reply to post by Akragon

Even the worst of sinners will make it... but their judgement might not turn out so good

Nah, they'll just endure lifetime after lifetime after lifetime.....
In the end, they won't face harsh judgment. They will have passed all the "life" lessons.
Thanks for hanging in here with me!

reply to post by wildtimes


Pistis Sophia

A "man who curses" is given a body that will be continually "troubled in heart". A "man who slanders" receives a body that will be "oppressed". A thief receives a "lame, crooked and blind body". A "proud" and "scornful" man receives "a lame and ugly body" that "everyone continually despises." Thus earth, as well as hell, becomes the place of punishment.

Another text from "The wisdom of Soloman" says... I was given a sound body to live in because I was already good.

The idea of judgement after death answers many questions... such as why people are born with deformities, and why "bad things happen to good people"...

reply to post by QuantumSeeker

" frightening to the degree that you perceived they would be while living..."
In what sense???"they" is something "living" or a "condition"???

and about the guru saying that" the person's place of landing next will be not to a life of sorrow and hardship, but rather to a kind and comforting place. " that applies for everyone??his students??or??

To the best of my current understanding, 'they' is something in the psyche that reflects the fears/misgivings about actions executed by the dying person. In the sense that your conscience told you what you were doing was wrong or questionable.

Yeah, frightening to the degree that you perceived (when fretting about the consequences of your action).

No, they are not 'living' as we are.....
they are the 'karmic distributors' of the horror which our actions have earned us....
the guru is sitting alongside the dying person and coaching him (if you will) on how to navigate the crossing...
he only can say "I hope" about the dying/dead soul (who is to reincarnate), and give him advice about how to deal with the experience.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by QuantumSeeker

 

" frightening to the degree that you perceived they would be while living..."
In what sense???"they" is something "living" or a "condition"???

and about the guru saying that" the person's place of landing next will be not to a life of sorrow and hardship, but rather to a kind and comforting place. " that applies for everyone??his students??or??

To the best of my current understanding, 'they' is something in the psyche that reflects the fears/misgivings about actions executed by the dying person. In the sense that your conscience told you what you were doing was wrong or questionable.

Yeah, frightening to the degree that you perceived (when fretting about the consequences of your action).

No, they are not 'living' as we are.....
they are the 'karmic distributors' of the horror which our actions have earned us....
the guru is sitting alongside the dying person and coaching him (if you will) on how to navigate the crossing...
he only can say "I hope" about the dying/dead soul (who is to reincarnate), and give him advice about how to deal with the experience.

Whta if the person does not have conscience???Or did something questionable which is actaully nothing wrong,just his own perception???