Understanding Gnosticism; or, a quest for accurate knowledge

reply to post by rwfresh

My ego CANNOT realize my true self.

What is your definition of "realized", as you used it in this sentence?
Do you mean, understand?
Are you making an anti-Gnostic declaration of belief?
The goal of the philosopher would be to see yourself, as from above, meaning objectively, as how you fit into a bigger scheme of things. Then to see what is "natural", meaning what would naturally be best, in how you now act, with the benefit of this new insight on who you are in the context of a group of persons who you do, or could, affect.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by rwfresh
...
Truth, Ultimate Truth. The cause and explanation for everything is clearly not limited. But our acceptance and understanding of it is limited in infinite ways.

Truth is not Religion. Chaos is (as in Chaos Theory) is another level of order. And in the context of Truth, it's another division of non-reality. It is not Truth. It is not absolute. Quantum mechanics is a nomenclature for describing and communicating the latest dissection of non-reality. The only people having an epiphany through it's practice are the few 1000 scientists actually doing it. I know a lot of people that "believe" in it.. but few who are able to actually prove anything with it. I mean few that can actually walk through a proof and fully understand it, few that are actually conducting provable experiments on the bleeding edge. Anyone can read Scientific America and assume they know the truth.. and anyone can read the Bible and assume they know the truth.

Maybe you are one of them. I don't know. Just speaking from my own experience.

No, I'm not a quantum physicist. I know quantum mechanics is thrown around in conversation too much by people who don't know a thing about it. I guess that's what you think I'm doing. Maybe so.

Let me try a different tack: Have you ever considered the possibility that God wants to remain anonymous? Have you ever thought that we are not supposed to learn the "truth"; we are supposed to accept our ignorance and be grateful for life without understanding its purpose.

That's what I'm trying to say. Truth and a couple of bucks will buy a cup of coffee.

edit on 29-2-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

I don't know what you know about quantum mechanics.. I personally don't know much except what i read on forums, watch in science shows, have read in science/spirituality books and in science magazines. Meaning i am not a practicing Quantum Physicist. So any insight i get into it is circumstantial. Anyway..

I get what you are proposing. And what i am saying.. whether we are supposed to know the truth or not is irrelevant because we as ego cannot know it. It is not possible. But that is not some command of God's. It's one way of looking at it i guess. But for me, understanding that i (as ego) am not Truth is enough to know that "not Truth" cannot know Truth.

Truth/God does not need nor want anything. That is our deluded projection. Truth is wholly satisfied eternally. Wanting anything would suggest the acknowledgement of potential lack in the completeness of Truth. WE experience lack but in Reality there is none.The paradox is ours but does not exist in God/Truth.

If you are suggesting seeking Truth serves no purpose then i would wholeheartedly agree. In the context of Reality/Truth believing in lack which is the cause of seeking is delusion. We want to get to Truth without accepting it. It serves no purpose.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

As for other documents, we can rightly divide truth only by using the Bible as the root.

The other documents are part of the root that was left in the ground when the Bible was assembled!
It is the roots of the Bible that hold the actual information. A flower that is wilted or fails to bloom has a problem at the level of its roots...or a problem of infestation on its aerial parts.

That's why we divide bulbs of certain kinds of flowers, why we separate out bits that are impairing the flower's blossoming.

I'll let you answer for yourself on the accuracy of the Bible and the message of Paul and Jesus. I've stated my case.

"Answer for myself on the accuracy"? Answer to whom? To God?

As though you could have saved me and vouched for me?
How about you let me 'decide' for myself on the accuracy.

I didn't ask you to answer for me. But I appreciate your gesture (I think?)

I'm quite certain I can't answer for anyone BUT myself, and that God isn't going to consult you as to my worthiness.
I have tried to offer you some ideas worthy of thought. Whether or not you accept them is not up to me.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by rwfresh

 

My ego CANNOT realize my true self.

What is your definition of "realized", as you used it in this sentence?
Do you mean, understand?
Are you making an anti-Gnostic declaration of belief?
The goal of the philosopher would be to see yourself, as from above, meaning objectively, as how you fit into a bigger scheme of things. Then to see what is "natural", meaning what would naturally be best, in how you now act, with the benefit of this new insight on who you are in the context of a group of persons who you do, or could, affect.

edit on 29-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

My definition is in the traditional sense. "Become fully aware of (something) as a fact; "

So the ego is literal denial of Truth. Where you find Truth you will not find denial. So long as you have denial you are not True/Real. What i mean in the statement is the ego cannot become True. Truth exists where the ego will never go. There is no substance to ego. It is not real. It cannot do/be anything in Reality. Realization is delusional in the context of Ego. But Truth is fully realized eternally already. If you suspect a God Spark you have to admit it doesn't need anything from "us" as ego. It is as complete as God/Truth. It is eternal already. It is not evolving. So who is seeking? Delusion is seeking Truth but cannot have it.

We cannot admit the finality of it all. We cannot admit Truth's gentle and horrific dominance over what is not Real. The ego seeks seeks seeks.. forever looking for a way to become what it is in denial of. If it accepts Truth is no longer exists. So it looks for some other way. It tries to make itself True, it tries to make the universe true. It tries to make non-reality Reality. All of existence is born of this denial. A grandiose illusion/reflection of Reality.. but not Reality.

My ego has perhaps a loftier goal. That is Truth itself. Reality. Not to become a better person. Certainly that goes on in my life.. no doubt. And i believe the experience of Love is a very clear reflection of Truth. But i am driven by fear as much as i am by emotional Love. I am completely owned by Truth.

I believe denying this reflection leads to hell. But i also know hell too is an illusion... just like "heaven". Unless by heaven we mean Truth/Reality.

I believe this non-Reality is close to infinitely complex. Aliens, multiple dimensions, angels, demons etc. But they are all an illusion in the context of Reality. Where will my ego take me? Ultimately nowhere until the end of Time. And then poof. gone.

Originally posted by rwfresh
...
I get what you are proposing. And what i am saying.. whether we are supposed to know the truth or not is irrelevant because we as ego cannot know it. It is not possible. But that is not some command of God's. It's one way of looking at it i guess. But for me, understanding that i (as ego) am not Truth is enough to know that "not Truth" cannot know Truth.

Truth/God does not need nor want anything. That is our deluded projection. Truth is wholly satisfied eternally. Wanting anything would suggest the acknowledgement of potential lack in the completeness of Truth. WE experience lack but in Reality there is none.The paradox is ours but does not exist in God/Truth.

If you are suggesting seeking Truth serves no purpose then i would wholeheartedly agree. In the context of Reality/Truth believing in lack which is the cause of seeking is delusion. We want to get to Truth without accepting it. It serves no purpose.

Thanks, I just feel suspicious of any religion that claims to know too much about the truth. Less is more. The more detailed and well-defined the religion, the more I doubt it.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by rwfresh
...
I get what you are proposing. And what i am saying.. whether we are supposed to know the truth or not is irrelevant because we as ego cannot know it. It is not possible. But that is not some command of God's. It's one way of looking at it i guess. But for me, understanding that i (as ego) am not Truth is enough to know that "not Truth" cannot know Truth.

Truth/God does not need nor want anything. That is our deluded projection. Truth is wholly satisfied eternally. Wanting anything would suggest the acknowledgement of potential lack in the completeness of Truth. WE experience lack but in Reality there is none.The paradox is ours but does not exist in God/Truth.

If you are suggesting seeking Truth serves no purpose then i would wholeheartedly agree. In the context of Reality/Truth believing in lack which is the cause of seeking is delusion. We want to get to Truth without accepting it. It serves no purpose.

Thanks, I just feel suspicious of any religion that claims to know too much about the truth. Less is more. The more detailed and well-defined the religion, the more I doubt it.

Really?? Its the opposite for me,but I have a tendecy to doubt the more popular and "easy"(easier salvation) religions.

reply to post by rwfresh

All of existence is born of this denial.

By "existence", do you mean what you experience as a person, in life;
or what exists as in "all of existence" meaning the physical universe?

reply to post by QuantumSeeker

I have a tendecy to doubt the more popular and "easy"(easier salvation) religions.

How so, QS?
I think the basics are fine, distilled down into the Golden Rule:
or if you like, the Big Two:

Love others as you love yourself. Treat others as you would like to be treated. Love the Holy Spirit that unconditionally gives you the grace to do so.

reply to post by rwfresh


I haven't met you before on this forum, and I'm trying to glean the core of your belief system from what you write, but I'm having difficulty.

On the one hand you seem to be aware of, and in harmony with, the Zen and Toaist thinking -- that it's all an illusion.
On the other you seem to be one convinced that there is nothing substantial to be discovered, or that it is impossible; also you show no compassion for the welfare of others.

Gone, poof? So, are you one of the people who deny ethereal existence of the soul?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by rwfresh

 

All of existence is born of this denial.

By "existence", do you mean what you experience as a person, in life;
or what exists as in "all of existence" meaning the physical universe?

edit on 29-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Maybe existence isn't the best word. But i probably meant both. I just mean that everything we(as NOT Truth) experience, sense, perceive etc.. everything in non-Reality starts and ends with denial of Truth. It's a big elaborate proof in contradiction of Truth.

The Gnostic story of non-Reality is really complete.. it explains the process, the players.. attempts to explain how and why non-Reality came into "non" being I can't follow it all, i guess because I'm not sure learning more about denial gets us any closer to Truth. You know what i mean? It's interesting and useful for me as a fake spiritual guy in non-Reality. But in the context of Truth it is as valueless as knowing the names of all the US presidents.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by rwfresh

 

I haven't met you before on this forum, and I'm trying to glean the core of your belief system from what you write, but I'm having difficulty.

On the one hand you seem to be aware of, and in harmony with, the Zen and Toaist thinking -- that it's all an illusion.
On the other you seem to be one convinced that there is nothing substantial to be discovered, or that it is impossible; also you show no compassion for the welfare of others.

Gone, poof? So, are you one of the people who deny ethereal existence of the soul?

I watch movies and read fictional books because it's stimulating/moving/distracting. Non-reality is the ultimate distraction. Totally engaging and utterly dramatic. But in the context of Truth there is no real value in any of it as it's not real. When you look in the mirror you don't feel warmth and love for your reflection. If the mirror broke you wouldn't mourn the lose of your reflection. If you have a child and they stepped in front of the mirror and then away from the mirror it wouldn't make you cry. You know your child hasn't gone anywhere.

Now "me".. I absolutely feel compassion. I have a family that means absolutely everything to me in my story. I am full of passion and emotion. I cannot stand to see people suffer in any way. I am totally engrossed in the drama of my own life. Absolutely. I Love Jesus, Gandhi. I am full of shame and suffer it and it comes from acknowledging the falseness and denial i carry with me. And in terms of humanity and a simple rule, Love one another.. that's it, like you've said.

But these forums are great. Because we don't know each.. we can get right to the core. We don't need our stories getting in the way of talking about what is. Or as best we can given the circumstances. And my core belief is there is a Truth. A single Truth. We know we are not it. We know it is separate from us. We seek it. We know that Truth is Real.. so anything not experiencing it is not Real.

Becoming some spiritual character in this non-Reality is like playing Jesus in a movie. It's not real. The human condition can never be totally healed outside of removing the human from the condition. But it can be treated with things like meditation, devotion to Love through giving, helping those in need.

I have to admit that my analogies for Reality and non-Reality are not True in the context of Truth. By nature of my own understanding. They are not divinely inspired. I am not Truth incarnate. But GOD am i glad that no matter my delusion, Truth exists in total perfectness and is eternally fulfilled. It makes the suffering i feel over my delusion and the suffering i feel over the suffering i see in the world bearable.

About ethereal existence of the soul. I think aliens, heavens, hell, multi dimensions, re-incarnation etc. all MAY exist in this non-Reality. Anything is possible in this imaginary reality. None of them are more Real or closer to Truth. In the context of Truth they do not exist. I mean what is the premise of re-incarnation? You re-incarnate until you are 100% Truth right? But what is it that is becoming Truth? That's not to say that when you personally die you won't become a spirit and go to some other world and feel more love and fly around in a ufo. I mean this is totally possible. But it's not Truth. You'll still be a Jesus alien spirit in a fake world seeking Truth/Reality/Eternity.

If we understand that time is an illusion. That it is not real. And that eternity is Real and is Truth... this understanding is the lynch pin holding all this ascension/dimensional stuff together. Remove time from the equation and unfolding is meaningless. seeking is meaningless. If we know Eternity is timelessness and we know Truth is eternal.. we have to admit we will not get there in time, over time.

Peace!

reply to post by rwfresh

If we understand that time is an illusion.

There's a good show on that, from last Sunday's Paracast Radio Show.
They had on Dr. Barry Taff, who is a paranormal investigator.
He gives a pretty good description of time and there being really not a such thing.
He was one of the original "remote viewers" where he sort of set up the system for the government and was a natural where he could see things other people could not, since early childhood.
He says all information about everything that ever happened is everywhere.

reply to post by rwfresh


Great thoughts. Love is the root. We only find it defined to its essence with the Bible and the life of Christ. With the either / or exclusive argument, you are speaking of this from the revelation of One God being one thing at His essence, but many aspects of the same. By the way, Ravi is AMAZING on most any topic. The video below starts with a video blog tag. The actual vid starts at .45.

Ravi stays this: "..it's got nothing to do with Eastern or Western (even Gnostic). It's got everything to do with that which best reflects reality. And when Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father buy by me," it is a most reasonable statement...Truth by definition is exclusive."

reply to post by rwfresh

I would suggest that Jesus IS the grace of God. at least in the context of the commonly understood message.. Jesus died for our sins... It is through Jesus that we get to God. That is God's grace demonstrated in the letter/story.

Something I have always wondered about is this: Jesus is called the last Adam in the NT. He is called the firstfruits of the Holy Spirit. If we consider the mystery of transmigration of the soul and the words of Jesus, "you must be born again," can we then extend this to Him?

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

It's interesting to me that He was the last Adam on many levels. Although it is a mystery, could this verse from Job be a clue? The only problem is considering the translation.

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

Some translations state that the root of the problem is in me. Depending on the accuracy of how this verse should be read, consider what this might mean in light of Jesus being the last Adam. Was he the first and then many people in between? I've heard this question raised before. Either way, it's a mystery. I love pondering these mysteries.

reply to post by rwfresh

But Truth is fully realized eternally already.

I think Socrates talked about this. Something along the lines that we already possess all truth and wisdom within. The spark of education leads the mind back to what it already knows. Realization happens when we get over our own pride in thinking we can fit our square truth into the round hole. I would see pride and ego in this light. It never fits into the zero of infinity.

What follows is me rambling. Not directed toward anyone at all. It is interesting to put the puzzle together in context to the conversation.

I've used the comparison before: Truth in reflection looks like a -1 and a +1. Zero is truth. We never get to truth apart from differentiating the reflection. God is the unseen combination of both in infinity. He separates the negative from the positive and keeps the positive. The knowledge of good and evil is simply the comparison of opposites producing knowledge of both. Value from one or the other then comes by developing a relationship with the one who stand apart from both, but harvests only one. Zero (Alpha and Omega) is always there in the middle of all reality. Light is held over darkness that is separated.

In light of Christ, love is all positive. As a paradox to us, love must suffer or it is not love. Like I have said many times, suffering is the point. We suffer work for a good job and the reward it brings. We take reward, making ourselves thieves, that results in suffering. Smoke and you get cancer. How do we define Christ as truth?

1) He suffered every step

2) He never took a reward, but always gave

3) He turned the other cheek

4) He blessed when He was persecuted

And on and on we could go.

What other sign do we need?

A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. Matthew 16:4

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". Matthew 12.40

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

"What sign have you to show us for doing this?"John 2.18

Matthew 14:58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.'"

Matthew 27:62-64

Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

Three days is three thousand years. The Sign of Jonah is the work Christ does to redeem mankind. The Day of the Lord is the day of rest at the end when peace and salvation comes to man. Two days have passed so far. We are on the leading edge of salvation coming to mankind.

What other sign do we need? It's happening now.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Akragon is always criticizing Paul but he is always quoting Acts, which I think was written by Paul's enemies, to make him look like he was more in line with Judaism or the Jewish slanted version of Christianity.

No, Acts doesn't portray Paul that way, and Acts was written by the same dude that wrote the gospel according to Mark. It's Luke volume 2.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by rwfresh

 

If we understand that time is an illusion.

There's a good show on that, from last Sunday's Paracast Radio Show.
They had on Dr. Barry Taff, who is a paranormal investigator.
He gives a pretty good description of time and there being really not a such thing.
He was one of the original "remote viewers" where he sort of set up the system for the government and was a natural where he could see things other people could not, since early childhood.
He says all information about everything that ever happened is everywhere.

Sounds cool.. i will try and check it out.

"He says all information about everything that ever happened is everywhere."

This is absolutely the case. Anything is possible in this non-reality. ANYTHING.. except the wholeness of what truly is. But i could be wrong.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


""..it's got nothing to do with Eastern or Western (even Gnostic). It's got everything to do with that which best reflects reality. And when Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father buy by me," it is a most reasonable statement...Truth by definition is exclusive." "

Hey Enoch, thanks for the vid!

Truth by definition is exclusive. Exclusive of what is not True and not Real. But totally inclusive of everything that Truth is.

I find it difficult to express the paradox.. But i can say for me as a human seeking Truth, Jesus the man, the living parable, is absolutely the best reflection of what is, in terms of our experience as a collective awareness looking at Truth. Not best as in the best option.. but best as in the one. But i believe Jesus himself points out that believing in the story over the Truth it reflects is something everyone will have to come to terms with. I believe the position, importance, stature of Jesus in our collective is exactly what it is. It requires no defense (not implying you are defending it, just talking) or explanation.

The more honest a person becomes with themselves the more they can draw a contrast to what is not Real and what is Real. And even without ever hearing about Jesus or the bible that person can have a profound insight into the reality of Jesus.

I think the paradox with Jesus is understood when we let ourselves accept that Jesus spoke AS the Truth.. not just "spoke the Truth". Collectively we asked for this to happen. We made it happen. And it happened exactly as we wished. There is no point in denying it.. But in the context of Truth, there is absolutely no effect on Reality/Truth by denying it.

We look in ourselves, we look out, we look at our history and put together the story laid out before us.. we see our place in it and it's all so captivating and seemingly real. It's prophetic and obvious.. But it's generally not Truth and that is the message. The entire collective story says "This story is not Reality".

The bible prophesied a day when Truth will come and proclaim itself as truth as a man. The Christ, the Savior. And then the man comes and says:

"Here i am, i AM the one with total certainty, The one you are waiting for. The one prophesied. But, understand our story and even this man you are listening to is not the Truth". The Truth is the Truth. And I, not this man, am that Truth. And one day time will end and with it this Story. Because this story does not exist in Reality/The Kingdom. This story is illusion. This man is an illusion"

Now maybe someone can honestly bypass the story of mankind and directly experience Truth.. but that one does not exist in non-reality.. So anyone that hears about, denies, believes the story we are all part of, with honesty, can admit it the Truth outside of it. The Truth might be accessible by honestly seeing the story for what it is. Illusion. But personally i don't know. I am still very much involved in the drama.

Just talking! And it's good to yap with you. Peace!

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by rwfresh

 

But Truth is fully realized eternally already.

I think Socrates talked about this. Something along the lines that we already possess all truth and wisdom within. The spark of education leads the mind back to what it already knows. Realization happens when we get over our own pride in thinking we can fit our square truth into the round hole. I would see pride and ego in this light. It never fits into the zero of infinity.

I was thinking.. that Realization only happens through honesty. Being totally honest about what is True.

hon·est/ˈänist/
Adjective:
Free of deceit and untruthfulness; sincere.

In Reality "we" as humans do not and cannot exist. Like saying our bodies cannot enter the kingdom. Death may seem like a biological event.. But in Reality it could be the process of honesty within non-Reality. Only Truth is eternal so it would stand to reason that our denial is temporal and not sustainable. If we associate our being to what is temporal we die. If we associate our being with what is eternal, we live.

What follows is me rambling. Not directed toward anyone at all. It is interesting to put the puzzle together in context to the conversation.

I've used the comparison before: Truth in reflection looks like a -1 and a +1. Zero is truth. We never get to truth apart from differentiating the reflection. God is the unseen combination of both in infinity. He separates the negative from the positive and keeps the positive. The knowledge of good and evil is simply the comparison of opposites producing knowledge of both. Value from one or the other then comes by developing a relationship with the one who stand apart from both, but harvests only one. Zero (Alpha and Omega) is always there in the middle of all reality. Light is held over darkness that is separated.

In light of Christ, love is all positive. As a paradox to us, love must suffer or it is not love. Like I have said many times, suffering is the point. We suffer work for a good job and the reward it brings. We take reward, making ourselves thieves, that results in suffering. Smoke and you get cancer. How do we define Christ as truth?

Rambling is good! Here some more! Suffering is the by-product of uncovering our denial. Being honest. It hurts to let go of what is not Real, what we are holding as Real. There is an actual pain. After the pain there is an opening, relaxation, strength, joy and freedom. The process is ongoing and the facilitator or method must be Love.

1) He suffered every step

2) He never took a reward, but always gave

3) He turned the other cheek

4) He blessed when He was persecuted

And on and on we could go.

What other sign do we need?

A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. Matthew 16:4

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". Matthew 12.40

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

"What sign have you to show us for doing this?"John 2.18

Matthew 14:58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.'"

Matthew 27:62-64

Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

Three days is three thousand years. The Sign of Jonah is the work Christ does to redeem mankind. The Day of the Lord is the day of rest at the end when peace and salvation comes to man. Two days have passed so far. We are on the leading edge of salvation coming to mankind.

What other sign do we need? It's happening now.

edit on 29-2-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Agreed! it is happening right now. The kingdom is in front of us and in us. It is not in the future and it is not in the past. It is in eternity!

reply to post by rwfresh

The bible prophesied a day when Truth will come and proclaim itself as truth as a man. The Christ, the Savior. And then the man comes and says:

"Here i am, i AM the one with total certainty, The one you are waiting for. The one prophesied. But, understand our story and even this man you are listening to is not the Truth". The Truth is the Truth. And I, not this man, am that Truth. And one day time will end and with it this Story. Because this story does not exist in Reality/The Kingdom. This story is illusion. This man is an illusion"

Now maybe someone can honestly bypass the story of mankind and directly experience Truth.. but that one does not exist in non-reality.. So anyone that hears about, denies, believes the story we are all part of, with honesty, can admit it the Truth outside of it. The Truth might be accessible by honestly seeing the story for what it is. Illusion. But personally i don't know. I am still very much involved in the drama.

Just talking! And it's good to yap with you. Peace!

All good thoughts. 1 Corinthians 13 relates that when all things are revealed, we see Him face to face. The dimly lit mirror is gone. There's is a verse I read a few weeks ago that never hit me until then. It's important for us to know Christ, but it's even more important we know the He knows us intimately. Perhaps better than we know ourselves.

John 2

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.