Understanding Gnosticism; or, a quest for accurate knowledge

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I was sleeping this morning and I was watching this fish flopping around because somehow it got pulled out of whatever it had been swimming in earlier. I was not sure if I should do something, or what exactly I should do if I chose to intervene. I ignored it and later this fish was talking to me telepathically and was telling me if I did not do something, it would be soon dead. In my dream, I put some water in the bathtub in this fantasy house I was living in, meaning it did not correlate with any real house I ever lived in but seemed familiar enough to me in the circumstances, and put the fish in it and watched it to make sure it was going to be ok. I wondered (while still asleep) why I would have such a weird annoying dream of a (mentally) talking fish. I got up once I was awake, and went outside and looked at my cat's water dish and there was a dead lizard in it. I was quite horrified at the idea that it was sending me messages which went to no avail.

edit on 25-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

That is quite interesting! I love the little synchronicities of life... It happens all the time in my life actually...

Apparently the fish is a very early christian symbol... Heres a quick interpretation for ya

The fish in your dream represents life even in its most simplistic form... And how precious it is... You felt the need to save the fish... which represents the love of life... or the spirit. When you woke up... you found the dead lizard... Usually a lizard or reptile represents "the demon" or satan... the snake... and the material world And it being dead in your cats dish represents you overcoming the physical/material world in your dream...

Just a thought of course... im no dream specialist... but i like to try

reply to post by Akragon


I think it was sending telepathic messages and I was reversing it in my mind and blowing it off instead of waking up and doing something.
The idea of saying anything about it is how the topic of reincarnation was being discussed on this thread, where you don't know who exactly that lizard is. The idea being, there could be a way for animals to link up on some level, with people.
I get my tolerance tested by giant spiders who walk around my house (in S.W. Florida). I have to just not look at them.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

I think it was sending telepathic messages and I was reversing it in my mind and blowing it off instead of waking up and doing something.
The idea of saying anything about it is how the topic of reincarnation was being discussed on this thread, where you don't know who exactly that lizard is. The idea being, there could be a way for animals to link up on some level, with people.
I get my tolerance tested by giant spiders who walk around my house (in S.W. Florida). I have to just not look at them.

edit on 25-2-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Its funny.... when i came to the realization that ALL life is precious... i couldn't even kill a fly... and still can't.

I used to the the "fly terminator"... now i just can't do it anymore... i actually feel bad for killing anything now...

Its a little freakish i know... but i can't help who i am

reply to post by wildtimes

Okay, I consulted the thread.
I have read the Gospel of Thomas more than once, and am in the process of digesting other things I've come across (some, but not all, of which are those pages that you linked to).

I must say, Ed, that that your GOT thread shows a side of you that I have not seen anywhere else in the religion forum.

The above quoted verse is the very one that says the truth to me; we ARE born again, and our spirits are just fine; they are simply in school. But we will all graduate, and have enough chances to get it right, even if it takes 100s of them. You don't "run out of chances", it's a self-paced study of the cosmic sort.

I realize the desire to think this way. If you read 1 Corinthians, you will see the error in this thinking by the worlds standards. What you are essentially saying above is that you can create this reality apart from the authority of God. Many people have traveled this broad path in life. There are plenty of sources that will tell you there are endless paths to God. The Bible does not lead to this conclusion.

The world will tell you to relax. God is your buddy. God would tell you to be serious. Every choice matters. He tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. There is limited time in this day and age. All signs point to the conclusion that the final judgment of mankind is approaching. Matthew 24 is at the event horizon of fulfillment. The Bible says it this way:

Isaiah 55

1 “Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.
2 Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?
Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and you will delight in the richest of fare.
3 Give ear and come to me;
listen, that you may live.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.
4 See, I have made him a witness to the peoples,
a ruler and commander of the peoples.
5 Surely you will summon nations you know not,
and nations you do not know will come running to you,
because of the LORD your God,
the Holy One of Israel,
for he has endowed you with splendor.”

6 Seek the LORD while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Seek, forsake wickedness and receive pardon from God. Receiving the gift of grace is the easy part. The hard part is believing God at his Word with faith. The Bible is His Word.

reply to post by Hillarie

Is there any hope for someone who doesn't find Christ in their lifetime? I need to know. I know what the correct anwer is but I can't live with it.

The article linked from my signature on Baptism and the Water shows the mystery from my perspective. It is a mystery for sure. God is long-suffering. We don't know if a soul is given the choice beyond this life. There is a mystery in all this. The Bible seems to suggest that we will live again. Jesus said, "you must be born again." God is love and love keeps no record of wrongs according to 1 Corinthians 13. There seems to be a paradox and a mystery with this as well. For me, it may be revealed in this statement from the parable of the worker in the vineyard.

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

For me, this indicates that pride (putting ourselves first) makes us last in the kingdom of God to find salvation. Putting ourselves last by humility allows us to be first. Are there those who do not find salvation at all? The Bible suggests this as well. The heart is the key in all of it. God continually offers to remake our hearts. We are the only ones that can stand in the way. The consuming fire baptizes us by trials when we break the law of love from unbelief. Does passing through the fire of judgment bring salvation for all? It's a mystery.

A person with a hard heart can hear the truth then deny it. Christ offers salvation when we repent and bear fruit from faith. Repentance is walking away from our former ignorance and sin. The reason people walk away from faith is always be the same. They refuse to let go of their sin.

In Matthew 3, we find John baptizing all who would come. The requirement was to confess sin and walk in new life. For me, this is a picture of our immersion into the material world. Are there those who are refused the gift of being born again into new life? John answers that question:

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

From this, I see that baptism is offered to all by repentance and faith. The Sadducees and Pharisees refused to recognize the authority of Christ. Essentially, they would not repent and believe without a sign. Why? They didn't want to give Christ their authority.

Luke 17:33

Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

reply to post by jmdewey60

The idea of saying anything about it is how the topic of reincarnation was being discussed on this thread, where you don't know who exactly that lizard is. The idea being, there could be a way for animals to link up on some level, with people.

There is certainly, indisputably a way for "animals to link up on some level with people."
Animals, especially domesticated "pet" animals, are keenly interested in connecting with us. I have, in my life, been friends with more animals than I can count (at the moment); and every one of them had a connection to me.

Right now, I live with my husband and twenty-ish animals in the house (cats, dogs, fish), and dozens more outside the house.

As far as reincarnation goes, I am of the school of thought that humans do not become "other than human" when they reincarnate, but there are certainly those that do think that.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that!

reply to post by EnochWasRight

What you are essentially saying above is that you can create this reality apart from the authority of God. Many people have traveled this broad path in life. There are plenty of sources that will tell you there are endless paths to God. The Bible does not lead to this conclusion.

*s i g h *

Oh. There you are. I missed it again.

Dude. Fear and trembling?
C'mon now.
Enough with the fear bit. So, your stance has changed since you wrote the GOT thread. I see.
The Bible DOES, and HAS, led me to this conclusion. Where exactly did you think I got started?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

You took it out of context.

The first (lifetime) shall be the last (original lifetime); and the last (lifetime) shall be first (to die into nirvana rather than returning again).

Oh well.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

What you are essentially saying above is that you can create this reality apart from the authority of God. Many people have traveled this broad path in life. There are plenty of sources that will tell you there are endless paths to God. The Bible does not lead to this conclusion.

*s i g h *

Oh. There you are. I missed it again.

Dude. Fear and trembling?
C'mon now.
Enough with the fear bit. So, your stance has changed since you wrote the GOT thread. I see.
The Bible DOES, and HAS, led me to this conclusion. Where exactly did you think I got started?

I can answer this and the parable of the vineyard workers at the same time. The first shall be last and the last first. Compare this to working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Both of these are answered in Philippians 2 by examining Jesus putting himself last and then being made first for his work in the Vineyard. By context, Paul answers Matthew 20 by showing that humility here demonstrates our faith by a love that places our self last before others. That was what i was referring to on both accounts. Fear with God is not being afraid. It is reference for his will and deference toward his wisdom for living a life free from sin. Belief must be backed by the evidence of our faith. Evidence comes by the fruit of repentance we demonstrate in our daily lives. Paul says, "Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others." Notice what he says in v. 12. God works in us to produce our faith. The work is not ours as long as we step aside and allow God to lead. This is the difference between us working toward our own salvation or stepping aside and allowing God to work in and through us.

There is a fine line here between thinking that it is our job to create our own salvation. The truth is the same for any union. Both partners are in this together. We're never alone. As I have been trying to say, the Bible has the clearest answers on all spiritual topics with no counterfeit messages to sift. Look anywhere you want, but God's Word provides all we need on any topic.

Philippians 2

Imitating Christ’s Humility

1 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

reply to post by wildtimes

It's such a huge subject....
there's no end to the matter; it can be studied forever! I was talking to my daughter today; her friend told her he remembered his last lifetime (as a French basket-weaver), and she was happily surprised, and told me that reincarnation was the 'first thing she believed...that made sense to her'.

It was probably before her 'memory' kicked in that I had suggested this to her and her brother. But, the point is, that there is just SO MUCH to be learned, ONE lifetime is simply not enough.

I hear you. I have been able to see dead people for all of my life, don't know why, just can. As a small boy I played war with six Confederate Soldiers, and thought nothing of it. I often would encounter a dead soul in someone's home, and take to them, or tell others I saw their Dad, Mom, etc, and was ostracised for it. At the age of 7 my Mother, rest her tortured soul, decided I was demon possessed. She had a preacher, a deacon, and three Church ladies come to our house for three days, trying to pray out the demons. I will never, ever forget this.

At age 30 I had past life regression. I discovered I am a very old soul, so what I can do, and what I know is just the result of that, nothing more.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

The basic salvation message is to recognize Christ and believe. Come to the cross and repent.

You sound like a parrot, friend. I have been hearing that for many years, and I wish to you know, Christians, as much as they would like, do not have a lock on information. Think of the Godhead as a very high mountain, and everyone must climb it to get back to God/Goddess. There are many paths, to sit and say yours is the only true path is just human ego talking. Losing the ego is the very first step to becoming the Divine Self. Once ego is gone, one can know their true, and pure essence. Salvation is just a tenet of faith, nothing more. Do that if it makes you happy, but please don't expect everyone to believe as you do. So of us know better.

reply to post by rwfresh

When Jesus says "you will be like me when you look inside you."

That right there is the only clue one needs. The man did not come here to "save" everyone, or to "give his life for sin," that is just Christian dogma. He came here to teach us how to love each other, and how to be like him. Take a good hard look at what the Church, and Christendom did instead.... over one million souls tortured and burned in Europe alone, and thousands more in Central America, not to mention the American Natives. I am just sure that is what Christ wanted done. Kill of everyone that refuses to convert. I would be today people like me would be killed by Christians were it legal to do so.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Allow me to point to a danger in Gnostic texts.

Friend, Christians think every book on anything not of the official canon is dangerous, don't they? I remember being severely warned not to ever study the "Occult."

God is the author of this word, just as he is the author of the history that reflects the symbols. Hebrews reveals how this works.

I have to dispute you here, the God of the Bible did not "author" anything, except perhaps the 10 thou shalt nots on the Mountain. Men, men with agendas authored the Bible, plain and simple.

We are the image of God. The image is only the reflection of what it represents. The reflecting point is how we learn. Symbols are what is reflected.

Now this I can get behind, and agree with. We, Humanity, are the image of our Creators. We have come a long way,. and some of us are like they are. I am a student of Symbology myself, you? Ever notice the Pagan Symbols in nearly every Ancient Church? Ever notice how humanity is being drowned with Reptilian/Dragon Symbols?
www.nuance.com...
www.dragonframe.com...
imageevent.com...
www.reptilianagenda.com...

reply to post by wildtimes

Animals, especially domesticated "pet" animals, are keenly interested in connecting with us. I have, in my life, been friends with more animals than I can count (at the moment); and every one of them had a connection to me.

Most assuredly agreed! We have a mixed breed dog, Buddy. My wife has a seizure disorder, and a very bad lower lumbar problem that is not as yet addressed. Buddy alerts when she is about to have a seizure, and he cannot leave her side when she is in a lot of pain, as with me, or the kids, when sickness strikes. When Buddy wants to go outside, he comes and looks me directly in the eyes, as I sit near the front door. He sends telepathic messages that he wishes to go out, I can tell even if I am not paying attention at the time.
Is he connected in a psychic way? I would say yes, he is.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The basic salvation message is to recognize Christ and believe. Come to the cross and repent.

You sound like a parrot, friend. I have been hearing that for many years, and I wish to you know, Christians, as much as they would like, do not have a lock on information. Think of the Godhead as a very high mountain, and everyone must climb it to get back to God/Goddess. There are many paths, to sit and say yours is the only true path is just human ego talking. Losing the ego is the very first step to becoming the Divine Self. Once ego is gone, one can know their true, and pure essence. Salvation is just a tenet of faith, nothing more. Do that if it makes you happy, but please don't expect everyone to believe as you do. So of us know better.

No expectation on my part. I am climbing that mountain knowing that God needs to be at my side while I do. It can't be climbed alone. Jesus is the Lord that shepherds the journey. No sheep can go it alone. There is one path that is narrow. It's the only path that takes you to the capstone and the solid foundation above the turmoil of this mortal coil. That's all I'm saying.

It's a paradigm shift when you realize that what you are saying above is the goal, but the key is the truth of love demonstrated by Christ. He turned our thinking around on this.

Do you agree that there is a Cabal that is trying to head us in the wrong direction? Can you deny that there is an army of corrupt men heading the masses as wolves disguising themselves as shepherds?

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52)

Those are not rhetorical questions. I am very much interested in how you view the very obvious truth Jesus related toward our day and age. I have also heard this for years, but could not see the connection until the last few years. The closer we head toward the cliff, the more in focus it becomes for me.

reply to post by autowrench

I remember being severely warned not to ever study the "Occult."

Yesterday I was listening to a two hour show "Occult Empire Dr. Christopher Holmes‏"
That was the guest, Christopher, and the show is Occult Empire, and the host is Bob from Cincinnati.
Their philosophy is that the occult is something out there so you might as well understand what it is or other, bad people will use the dark aspects of it against you and you won't even know what hit you.
Anyway, an internet radio show with downloadable podcasts that are best gotten using iTunes or something similar.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

1 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Bingo!!
Exactly. We are already forgiven, in advance, is what this means. If you have any comfort in knowing this, that you are united with Christ
simply by virtue of the grace of the Godhead, then try to comfort others, and share with them what you know.
Grace is loving others with no expectations of receiving anything in return. This I learned via reading M Scott Peck's The Road Less Traveled.

Also, I want to ask you, Ed, if you have ever heard Steve McVey's theories. gracewalk.org.
I stumbled while book-shopping across the title of his book 52 Lies Taught in Church Every Sunday.

He is a pastor of some evangelical (I guess?) transdenominational offshoot. On his website there are actually 101 Lies, and a short video (2-5 minutes) clickable on each of them, which are stated very succinctly.

While I'm not rushing out to join his mission, I did find his messages refreshing, as far as Bible-study and Christian "worship" go.

There is simply NO REASON to be afraid and trembling except for the actions of those HUMANS who do NOT demonstrate the inner grace of Christ that we are granted FROM PREBIRTH, and who behave out of selfishness, power, greed, and oppression.
I suspect this is what the verse following the quoted bit above, which says "continue with fear and trembling toward your salvation", because, as you said, those leaders who have usurped our very lives and forced fear and, indeed, trembling upon billions of people who are undeserving of it. They, those power-mongers, are dangerous to our flesh, and by shushing us are stopping the good news from getting out.

But if you stay calm, confident that it will be okay in the end, that you will find peace, rest in blissful union with the Divine Love that is our gift, and thusly "will not taste death"....you can find the inner strength to endure.

I think Christianity (and any other "religion") would do much better, and more good, if they just DROP the hellfire crap. It is an archaic fear tactic that has been handily carried forward for millenia that keeps bad people in power and keeps the masses handicapped.
Bring the good news on, with no big but tacked on that negates the gift.
Any statement made, if followed by a clause being with "but", cancels out the statement.

reply to post by autowrench

That right there is the only clue one needs. The man did not come here to "save" everyone, or to "give his life for sin," that is just Christian dogma. He came here to teach us how to love each other, and how to be like him.

I think also, that he found people who were already loving each other, and saw how they were oppressed and ridiculed and damaged by those unloving people in power. So he was speaking to those people who were suffering in ignorance at their hands, by sharing with his followers the secrets that the mighty had kept from them.

To give us hope, and solace, that worldly suffering is not all there is to existence, and that imposing suffering on others will result in lengthy and painful revolutions of birth and death and re-birth until they knock it off.

It's a simple, and beautiful Truth. There are no strings attached. It's for everyone.

reply to post by Hillarie

Is there any hope for someone who doesn't find Christ in their lifetime? I need to know. I know what the correct anwer is but I can't live with it.

Yes, Hillarie, there is hope. "It is finished". Mission accomplished. Jesus said so...those words he is said to have uttered. He knew he would die, and he took on the job assigned. To let us know that we are NOT simply flesh and blood, that we are PART of him, that we ALL have the Divine spark. It doesn't get "taken back".

THAT is the correct answer. Don't listen to the "lies" of those shouting you will burn in hell if you fail.
That is nonsense, fear-mongering at its worst, and shallow to boot.
Be of good cheer. You're on your way. We all are.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

No expectation on my part.

I have a question for you.
Why do you spend so much time insisting on your "narrow path" rather than being willing to discuss alternatives?
Are you trying to "save" others?
"Warn" them?
Are you preaching?

Or are you a humble and generous person trying to spread good news through goodwill?
Your tone almost invariably takes on a high-and-mighty, pulpit-type ANNOUNCEMENT vibe; certainly not an equal-footing human-to-human, humble one.

Yesterday you posted a link that included the First Apocalypse of James
which was instructions given to James as to how to deal with the Archons one will be seized by at death, and how to escape their grasp quickly.

James, behold, I shall reveal to you the path of your redemption. Whenever you are seized and you undergo death-pangs (mortal fear), a multitude of Archons may turn on you, thinking they can capture you. And in particular, three of them will seize you, those who pose as toll collectors.

Not only do they demand toll, but they take away souls by theft.
Now, when you come under their power, one of them who is the overseer will say to you: "Who are you, and where are you from?"
You are then to say to him, "I am a child of humanity and I am from the Source."
He will then say to you, "What sort of child are you, and to what Source do you belong?"
You are to say to him, "I am from the pre-existent Source, and I am the offspring of the Source."
Then he will say to you, "Why were you sent out from the Source?"
Then you are to say to him, "I came from the Pre-existent One so that I might behold those of my kind and those who are alien."
And he will say to you, "What are these alien beings?"
You are to say to him: "They are not entirely alien, for they are from the Fallen Sophia (Achamoth), the female divinity who produced them when she brought the human race down from the Source, the realm of the Pre-Existent One. So they are not entirely alien, but they are our kin. They are indeed so because she who is their matrix, Sophia Achamoth, is from the Source. At the same time they are alien because Sophia did not combine with her like in the Source (her divine male counterpart), when she produced them."
When he also says to you, "Where will you go now?"
You are to say to him, "To the place when I came, the Source, there shall I return." And if you respond in this manner, you will escape their attacks.
(NHC V, 3. 33 - 34: 1- 25. Translation from NHLE 1990, pp. 265-6 and Kurt Rudolf, Gnosis, p. 174-5.)

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

This was a synchronistic discovery for me, as just a few months ago I read the Tibetan Book of the Dead (Evans-Wentz edition) which can be read free online here
and the very same thing is what the Tibetan death-watch master tells the dying man.
He explains what is happening to the dying person, and gives him/her instructions for how to get beyond the demonic, evil spiritual beings which will be encountered while crossing through to the other side.

This set of instructions, the Bardo Thodol, is meant as a guide for the guru who is assisting the dying, and Dr Evans-Wentz explains it in terms readily comprehensible to Western thinkers.

That same Tibetan Book of the Dead can be traced back to Egyptian rites as well.

The fact that the James text in the Nag Hammadi includes those SAME INSTRUCTIONS reinforces my only-recent discovery of the concepts of Jesus having studied with the Buddhist masters. So did John the Baptist. And there is profound research indicating he was known in the East as St Issa.

Having learned these things now, at the midpoint-ish of this lifetime, has greatly improved not only my faith, but my own sense of understanding the Ultimate Truth.

Therefore, it is my opinion at this point that anyone who denies the Nag Hammadi's validity as secret knowledge is spreading lies that have been told them by liars. For now, anyway.