Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

Whoop that trick.

reply to post by Naptown317



What?

Her vegan or alternative lifestyle would have probably ended up with the deceased being a burden on society and an increased risk at menatl illness through bullying, bulimia, incest, cult suicide, drug abuse and so on....its just 'lucky'for OWS that this gave them ammunition against the police, before it gave MSM ammunition against the junkie scum in tents.

Now Im not personally saying that might have happened but I dont think its worth putting that much emphasis on this.

Let play statistic and I will make these up but you are more than welcom to clarify for the anal ones or correct my pissed maths.

1 in 10 pregnant women will miscarry.
1 million people worldwide attended OWS protests.
100 of those were pregnant.

from ows protests and statistics, 10 women will miscarry regardless of pepper spray

there has been one reported case of miscarriage. Statistics say, she is likely to have miscarried anyway.

Now I cerainly DO NOT agree with the police brutality, but I do not like these 'media' opportunities which weaken the concensus, use these as ammunition, but dont lose sight of the cause and do not pin you anger on 'flippant'events.

It needs to be bigger dan dat

Originally posted by ShockTruther
Toffee:

I think we're at odds without a good reason. If you look further back to 16-17 I said:


"On the other hand it could be the old double-cross. This incident could be designed to scare some protesters away, while inciting others to violence. Afterwards when she can't come up with proof it helps to discredit OWS. Double whammy for TPTB."


The motivation of a homeless girl with nothing to lose should be in question. I'm not saying this is the case, but the question should be raised. Who benefits from flaring emotions on the streets? Why is this story full of holes already? What impact would it have on the image of OWS if it turns out that she was lying? And who would benefit from this?

I know Fox would have a field-day with this story if this girl is not legit.


Again, I'm not stating this as fact, but you should wait to find out where the boat is going before you get onboard.

I do agree with your comments here, and know that TPTB regularly set up hoaxes to shape opinion - my questioning the document etc were not aimed at yourself, but the other chap who posted it, suggesting it proves her a liar, when it doesn't.

However, where people are taking the scenario at face value and coming out in droves to condemn the woman, it's certainly cause for alarm, imo.

I don't believe I'm misdirecting - though I am having various problems with my antiquated lap-top, whereby the screen's jumping about, keys are sticking, and links often cause it to crash, or time out while buffering. I don't think that's stopped me picking up the salient points of the issue though.

reply to post by FastJetPilot


Great post with lots of new info!!! You added alot to the thread - Keep it up!!! =] =] =] =] =] =] =]

NOTE: Extreme sarcasm!!!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

No. The actions of hte police put her in harm's way. She was on a public street, exercising her rights, and was attacked. She was not burning and looting and murdering people, in which case you MIGHT very well have a point - except of course that the police are STILL bound to laws that prevent the use of unnecessary force.

Your argument amounts to no one should do anything because bad things might happen. Throw away every freedom you have, never expect anything better, and just ignore the crap happening around you becuase you probably can't change it anyway.

Sorry buddy, but we can't all be on the verge of drowning ourselves in the bathtub to alleviate hte dreary uselessness of our own existences. But good luck with that.

It seems like this story could've been all a lie, but I thought I'd answer this comment all the same.

Did I say NOT to protest? NOT to fight?

Please read what I have been saying and not percieve what I am saying and then go on to judge my charachter on the perception that you have, simply because you are clearly unable to understand what I have been saying in several posts on this thread. I can assure you, I have been in very hostile situations on both sides so don't question the charachter of a person you know nothing about. My insight and expereinces makes me one of the most ojective voices towards confrontations between Police and Public. What exeperience have you got except for learning the First Amendment?

I said you can protest and do all you want, but the reality is that regardless of what you say about rights and freedoms, the Police do employ heavy tactics at times, well at least in America. Now I can't say whether it was excessive or not, To understand what is excessive, you have to understand training that they go through and crowd dispersal tactics that they are taught. In the Police, nothing is excessive if it can be justified and it doesn't matter how much everyone goes on, the only person who knows if it was justified or not is the Officer involved. One thing to note is that if they were brought in to clear the area then they must do so quickly, those tactics are different to simply standing by making sure a protest doesn't get out of hand.

However, to the original thread and your argument, I did not say do nothing because bad things might happen, I said if you do something know that bad things more than likely will happen. This woman, regardless of what everyone says about rights and freedoms, must've known the risks. She knew enough to attend an OWS gathering, she knew enough about what's going in the world to do that much but you're telling me that she did not know of the violence that she could get caught up in?

You can say all you like about rights, she had a duty of care to her unborn child and she failed. The Police Officer, if he did use excessive force, will be found out, but he cannot be tried for murder, he cannot be punished anymore than using excessive force when he did not know that she was pregnant. In clearing areas Police see people tha need to be cleared, not individuals with medical history papers, they are there to swiftly clear an area. If that is against the rights and freedoms, then that is another issue, the Officers involved are simply under orders.

If this turns out that this story is false, this will greatly lessen the support for the OWS, if this turns out to be true, may be this will raise the question of Police tactics, of rights to protest, may be this will increase support for the OWS, may be this woman was so desperate that she felt the only way to be heard was to go to this protest, may be she was so desperate that she felt that there was no other way. However, whatever she did she knew the risks, the fact, regardless of rights and freedoms, is that Police get heavy and when you go in to situation that could engulf in to conflict between Police and Public, the Police may be heavy handed, may be excessive, but you know the risks and you must be aware of what the Police are capable of. To take herself and her unborn baby in to a potential war zone, to me, is absolutely reckless. However, Police aren't above the law and if the Officer has used heavy tactics that were not justified, he will be found out.

My argument is all about knowledge and she knew the risk to her unborn baby but she made the choice to go there anyway. What is behind this choice is what need clarity, but whatever the reason, she failed in her duty of care as the mother to her unborn child.

reply to post by Toffeeapple


Although I hold to the position that it was incredibly irresponsible of her to be there if she was in fact pregnant, I completely agree with you that some of the comments here are repugnant. Schemes are not confined to the streets and I'm of the firm belief that some if not many of the inflammatory comments here are designed to keep everyone in an emotional uproar. Simply stated, people are stupid when they are emotional. There are those here who wish to sow discord and are skilled at their job.

BTW I wasn't suggesting that you are misdirecting. I meant that this whole story may be misdirection aimed at discrediting OWS.

This movement is scary to TPTB. They will attack it as much as they can from the shadows. This story may or may not be one of those strategic attacks. I'm eagerly awaiting the facts to come to light.

So let me get this straight, yet another "category" of citizen who should not be protesting :

1. Pregnant

plus previously:
2. Old
3. Young
4. Infirm

Well let's add:

5. Wearing glasses
6. Any medical condition that could be aggrevated.
7. Overweight (due to possible heart condition - an undiagnosed 6 basically)

Hmm, who does that leave.....erm.....let me think now......nobody!!!!!!!!!

Talk about missing the point completely. If you intend to do something aggressive and/or violent then sure enough the above precludes you from participating. If ,however, you wish to voice your opinion vocally in protest as is your right then none of the above should matter.

It only matters because of the attitude and thus overreaction of the police (although I strongly suspect they are under orders to be heavy handed). (that means the US constitution is dead).

Democracy in the US is dying and those anti OWS's better watch out because they are next.....

Honestly, the more I think about this, the more that I come to the conclusion that it is completely FUBAR for OWS. I know that alot of people here are conflicted about the irresponsibility of Jennifer Fox and the infringement on Constitutional Rights. I am one of them and I recognize that as it stands at this point, with no real facts, it is a copmlicated and very grey area debate.

However, put yourself in the mindset of the American public watching this story as it is spun in the MSM. Think little old ladies with, right wingers, etc, etc. There is not likely to be much compassion from these corners, and this girl is going to demonized no matted what the facts are. This is total # for OWS. Regardless on you take of the situation, I think that you will agree with the ultimate effect:

This will galvanize those who already fully support OWS, but it will likely have a very chilling effect on those watching at home. Especially once the MSM gets ahold of it and sets it spinning.

Her vegan or alternative lifestyle would have probably ended up with the deceased being a burden on society and an increased risk at menatl illness through bullying, bulimia, incest, cult suicide, drug abuse and so on....its just 'lucky'for OWS that this gave them ammunition against the police, before it gave MSM ammunition against the junkie scum in tents.

reply to post by FastJetPilot

Wow , why are you here? You are obviously incapable of being objective and would rather spread disinformation and your own disgusting propaganda.

reply to post by -W1LL


It is difficult on who to blame, but in the end it is sad nonetheless.

Originally posted by ToneDeafThe posters who are blaming the victim, would you also blame any
woman being raped because of what she would wear ? ?

FYI it's the perpetrators the are in lack of control,
just as the police in this situation.

There's the leveling of blame, and then there's the pointing out of stupidity. You may feel it is your "right" to swim shark-infested waters with an open wound, but be prepared for the possible consequences, because stopping your ears and going "Waaah! Waaah! Waaah!" isn't going to change the reality that predators exist and respond more readily to certain signals.

reply to post by PoeteMaudit


Comparing marauding police to sharks seems quite fitting.

Originally posted by -W1LL

Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

www.rawstory.com

“I was standing in the middle of the crowd when the police started moving in,” Fox recalled. “I was screaming, ‘I am pregnant, I am pregnant. Let me through. I am trying to get out.’”

She claimed that police hit her in the stomach twice before pepper spraying her. One officer struck her with his foot and another pushed his bicycle into her. It wasn’t clear if either of those incidents were intentional.

“Right before I turned, both cops lifted their pepper spray and sprayed me. My eyes puffed up and my eyes swelled shut,” Fox said.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer photograp

(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 11/22/2011 by -W1LL because: sp

oh sure... this is becoming all too common.. just like every other country in the world the police and governments can and do get away with TERRORIZING AND BRUTALIZING THEIR OWN PEOPLE..EVEN MURDER.. I hope the major news agencies get hold of this and have the moral courage to run with it..

Originally posted by FastJetPilot
Her vegan or alternative lifestyle would have probably ended up with the deceased being a burden on society and an increased risk at menatl illness through bullying, bulimia, incest, cult suicide, drug abuse and so on....its just 'lucky'for OWS that this gave them ammunition against the police, before it gave MSM ammunition against the junkie scum in tents.

Now Im not personally saying that might have happened but I dont think its worth putting that much emphasis on this.

Let play statistic and I will make these up but you are more than welcom to clarify for the anal ones or correct my pissed maths.

1 in 10 pregnant women will miscarry.
1 million people worldwide attended OWS protests.
100 of those were pregnant.

from ows protests and statistics, 10 women will miscarry regardless of pepper spray

there has been one reported case of miscarriage. Statistics say, she is likely to have miscarried anyway.

Now I cerainly DO NOT agree with the police brutality, but I do not like these 'media' opportunities which weaken the concensus, use these as ammunition, but dont lose sight of the cause and do not pin you anger on 'flippant'events.

It needs to be bigger dan dat

Watch and learn from others.............be prepared.

OWSers or any future protesters go here www.abovetopsecret.com... to learn techniques and plan ahead if you intend to become a active protester anywhere. (I'm in America).

And no, I am not saying that FOR NOW America is anywhere near the level of civil unrest Egypt is, however I learned a lot reading and watching this on protecting oneself if caught in a escalating situation.

But remember and never forget Kent State or the Civil Rights Riots......Civil unrest could happen here in America.

Buy and wear gas masks (good ones).
Buy and wear a bullet proof vest...........any bullet proof, bite proof protective covering (legs/arms, etc).
Bring a first aid kit / medical supplies like bandages, alcohol (not drinking kind), needle and thread,
Bring and wear a hard helmet (rocks).
Wear gloves and cover yourself with clothing that chemicals cannot penetrate.
Make sure to wear and cover as much of your skin as possible.

I say this because TheAlamo's quote gave me chills concerning the OWS Movement here in America if OWS escalates, and you intend to participate be prepared.

I am not saying to bring out your guns and clubs, NO NO NO! I am not for being violent, just safe that is the purpose of this post.

I am saying if you go to a protest, be prepared, think ahead of your safety.

Never bring any child or go if you are pregnant................the pawns for TPTB (The 1% are gutless and have their pions / traitors do their dirty work) and they have shown that they can and will play dirty if a movement becomes too large.

Pay close attention to TheAlamo's quote below, go to his thread and watch the videos and read his experiences - if anything this is additional knowledge if TSHTF because this is watching how people fight, survive in a combat situation.

Now, many ATSers are exsoldiers, so you already know all this stuff...............most of us that have never "trained" don't so it never hurts to learn how to protect yourself and learn from other people's conflicts.

First it was tear gas and sprays, but snipers? Everybody go home… please everyone… just go home. We lost this war.

And then everything I used to think about Egypt had changed completely. People didn't stay at home

No, the people didn't stay home, they got the back bone to fight for their freedom.

The above information was interesting because TheAlamo said they took samples of the tear gas and found out what chemicals were being used (for counteracting effects medically). That's smart.

Now I don't think it will come to that here, I am hoping it won't but I was around when the Kent State Massacre happened and I remember when I watched the news how stunned I was that peaceful students were killed. I also watched the civil rights riots, so America isn't as immune as we think we are.

Just some ideas to keep protesters safer.

If you go.............I did two weekends in a row wearing regular clothes and a coat................no helmet, no gas masks, etc.

Now, where we were at everything was civil, edgy but civil.

But we need to watch what is happening elsewhere and learn.

I never thought a policeman would tear gas or rubber bullet anyone here in America now days, unless that person was armed and dangerous but it did happen.

So, again, if you go - be prepared and stay safe.

Originally posted by FastJetPilot
Her vegan or alternative lifestyle would have probably ended up with the deceased being a burden on society and an increased risk at menatl illness through bullying, bulimia, incest, cult suicide, drug abuse and so on....its just 'lucky'for OWS that this gave them ammunition against the police, before it gave MSM ammunition against the junkie scum in tents.

Now Im not personally saying that might have happened but I dont think its worth putting that much emphasis on this.

Let play statistic and I will make these up but you are more than welcom to clarify for the anal ones or correct my pissed maths.

1 in 10 pregnant women will miscarry.
1 million people worldwide attended OWS protests.
100 of those were pregnant.

from ows protests and statistics, 10 women will miscarry regardless of pepper spray

there has been one reported case of miscarriage. Statistics say, she is likely to have miscarried anyway.

Now I cerainly DO NOT agree with the police brutality, but I do not like these 'media' opportunities which weaken the concensus, use these as ammunition, but dont lose sight of the cause and do not pin you anger on 'flippant'events.

It needs to be bigger dan dat

oh thank you dr oz..sounds like your just an over inflated ego who is emotionally constipated. lavking moral courage ...1 in 10 wowmen is way of point here..follow the bouncing ball bruce. step outside the box.this woman was terrorized by POLICE who are supposed to serve and protect... she posed no threat..and what gives you the right to judge her "lifestyle"? you got a lotta gal saying "Her vegan or alternative lifestyle would have probably ended up with the deceased being a burden on society ". why dont you come down off your throne and honestly tell us how perfect you and YOUR one demensional dillusional lifestlye is working for you. how she chooses to conduct her life had no consequence on you or the terrorists that MURDERED HER BABY. !

Ok I am officially confused. This is a baby in this situation? I have witnessed some of you ridiculing pro lifers in other threads, so which is it? It's horrible when a policeman performs an abortion, but when a doctor does it, it's a good thing? Get off of you soapboxes, this is just more propaganda to help support this bowel movement of ows.

Originally posted by kingofmd
Ok I am officially confused. This is a baby in this situation? I have witnessed some of you ridiculing pro lifers in other threads, so which is it? It's horrible when a policeman performs an abortion, but when a doctor does it, it's a good thing? Get off of you soapboxes, this is just more propaganda to help support this bowel movement of ows.

I believe it's a baby in all situations, the question is...

Do you believe it's a baby?

Because if you do, I'm confused at why you would set your morals aside that a life was taken, just so you could attack people on a political basis.

Another disgusting, inhumane police attack on unarmed, defenceless protesters.... this time resulting in the death of an unborn baby.

Even after her pleas to let her out, these mindless drones wade in and batter anything in their path.


This is just sick... absolute disgusting and upsetting... but I'm not shocked or surprised that they've done it.

Add it to the ever-growing list of police attacks on peaceful protesters.