Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

reply to post by SecretFace


That sounds more thought out, I can agree with you on that.

What sucks is the violence towards the protestors only helps, I also knew it would get violent, and it usually takes something - like - this to shift the tide.

That is if she was pregnant of course... because I've still seen no proof.

__________________________



^ I took this pict. while in T.O. , btw this IS what democracy looks like ^

v This however is NOT what democracy should look like v
(posted for the morons who don't know the difference)

btw , should it now be illegal for old people, senior veterans, to voice
their protests too ? ? ?
This is now becoming "Gandhi salt-march", and just the beginning.

_____________________________

Excessive force is only warranted in self-defense or to save the life of another, I seriously doubt that woman was a threat to anybody's life.

She is allowed to be there just like any other person.

reply to post by SecretFace

Are you someone who feels that we all have responsibility for a person's child?

I'm someone who feels we all have the responsibility to not harm another person's child, especially police officers.

she should not have been in that position in the first place and allowed herself to not only be at an event that had a high potential of violence that she must've been aware of, but also in a position where she is practically front line to that violence.

You'd be surprised how ignorant and trusting some people can be with regards to the true nature of the police. It's an assumption to say she was aware of it. Most people outside of ATS think of the police as friendly protectors whom they are happy to hand over their taxes for.

If a woman crosses a train track and gets hit by a train is it the train drivers fault?

I have to admit, I completely agree with you on this one. Police are like trains. Once they strap on the riot gear all accountability and self-control goes out the window, there's no stopping the violence locomotive, and rightfully so! What was even she doing outside of her kitchen anyway!?

it's been well documented what the Police have been like, she has no excuse.

Yup, ignorance of current events reported by alternative media is no excuse.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
I'm going to make a wager 90% of the people who will place blame on the victim here are otherwise pro lifers.

I really hope there's a special circle of hell for you #ing hypocrites. You all deserve it.

I'll start the count .
I am pro life for all and babies in wombs and i dont blame the mother I blame the people who assaulted her ,

Its a straight out assault on her and the baby if she screamed at them she was pregnant ,
But americans do like to kill women and babies overseas in countries that are of no threat to them and even if they were , you never attack a woman or child or anyone who is not an armed combatant or anyone who is walking away from the battle .
Those are the rules of engagement with those who value their honour .

reply to post by eLPresidente


Yup, that's true.

This topic is just so sketchy.

I know how the real world works, but I wont accept it.
There is no place in our world for this kind of violence.

Originally posted by SecretFace
No, you realise what you are saying!

It is well documented and well known, even by everyone here, that the Police can be heavy handed and can be aggressive. Knowing that knowledge, you can't go on about freedom this and the right to say that when you know that 9 out of 10 times the Police will spray you and then give you a beat down. That is the reality, so live in the real world!

The reality of polio didn't seem to phase John Salk. Nor id the reality of the southern caste system stop the Selma Marches.

Yes, the police can be and often are brutal. That is wrong of them, and this "fact" should never, NEVER be used as coercive force to cause people to be frightened to be in their own streets, exercising their first amendment rights. People have a pretty absolute right to not have the crap beaten out of them by armed and armored men, as well. This woman stepped out with over a thousand others to prove these rights. And the onus is on the police force for violating those rights. And by proxy that onus is you as well, who would due to your own cowardice and utter lack of character, happily give up all your own rights because the other option might cut into your daily allotted apathy time.

When you know that information, what excuse have you got to put yourself and your unborn baby in a situation that will most likely lead to violence? You can't just live in this pathetic bubble where you keep moaning about rights and freedoms when the reality is not going to stop a copper caving your head in should you be in that position and then say afterwards I have a right to free speech blah blah blah.

"Blah blah blah"?

They don't care what you think you have a right to, you know the reality and the reality is that the Police will be heavy handed, so again moaning about your freedoms and rights afterwards means nothing when faced with the reality! She knew the reality and if she didn't, she wouldn't have been there in the first place! You all keep moaning about Police heavy handedness like its a shock to you! It's been like this for over a hundred years, you know the score, so deal with it! When you go to these protests that will more than likely end in conflict the Police will use heavy tactics, end of. You fight or you flee, but you don't act shocked and make stupid excuses when the copper does what we all know he is going to do! Bottom line, she should not have been there! Her actions put her child in harms way and as a result she lost her baby.

No. The actions of hte police put her in harm's way. She was on a public street, exercising her rights, and was attacked. She was not burning and looting and murdering people, in which case you MIGHT very well have a point - except of course that the police are STILL bound to laws that prevent the use of unnecessary force.

Your argument amounts to no one should do anything because bad things might happen. Throw away every freedom you have, never expect anything better, and just ignore the crap happening around you becuase you probably can't change it anyway.

Sorry buddy, but we can't all be on the verge of drowning ourselves in the bathtub to alleviate hte dreary uselessness of our own existences. But good luck with that.

reply to post by -W1LL


why did the woman stand so close to begin with?
can't someone go to one of the protests and stand in the back away from the chaos?
this is still exercising your rights without endagering yourself or your unborn child.

bad decision by the mother, bad decision by the officers involved.

-subfab

Originally posted by shushu
Must have been some stupid crack whore.

Originally posted by unworldly
What a *FOOL* this woman is. Yes, I'm placing 100% of the blame squarely on her shoulders. I have no sympathy for this idiot.

Originally posted by Viking9019
she was practically asking for something to happen.

^ This is what the police said while scores of women were being murdered by a serial killer in Vancouver at a pig farm. This same indifference, ignorance, is what REALLY killed those women. SHAME ON YOU

www.forbes.com...

_______________________________

Originally posted by Anusuia

Originally posted by SpectreDC
I'm going to make a wager 90% of the people who will place blame on the victim here are otherwise pro lifers.

I really hope there's a special circle of hell for you #ing hypocrites. You all deserve it.

I'll start the count .
I am pro life for all and babies in wombs and i dont blame the mother I blame the people who assaulted her ,

Its a straight out assault on her and the baby if she screamed at them she was pregnant ,
But americans do like to kill women and babies overseas in countries that are of no threat to them and even if they were , you never attack a woman or child or anyone who is not an armed combatant or anyone who is walking away from the battle .
Those are the rules of engagement with those who value their honour .

That's pretty descriptive and limiting in that it doesn't allow for much wiggle room. I guess my questions are several.

1. Are you an American?

2. I'd love to know where you were stationed and in what action you were involved where you picked up such direct hateful knowledge of what American Military in combat situations does?

Otherwise, I get the distinct feeling that you are probably someone who's never had to face death, never had to decide to fight for your life or run. Actually, I do believe you, like many others on these forums tend to live a dream/illusion version of life wherein all the justice is simply as you believe it should be with no room for reality.

You make close ended statements about what we Americans are and do and it is so inimical to the reality that i do not believe you have any grasp of the reality at all.

Let me know... Honestlyl.... I'd like to know how close to the truth I am, if you can tell it.

Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by shushu
Must have been some stupid crack whore.

Originally posted by unworldly
What a *FOOL* this woman is. Yes, I'm placing 100% of the blame squarely on her shoulders. I have no sympathy for this idiot.

Originally posted by Viking9019
she was practically asking for something to happen.

^ This is what the police said while scores of women were being murdered by a serial killer in Vancouver at a pig farm. This same indifference, ignorance, is what REALLY killed those women. SHAME ON YOU

www.forbes.com...

_______________________________

edit on 23/11/11 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

This wasn't a pig farm. Try and keep the sense of the incident reasonable all the way round, instead of trying to get everyone's blood pressure up.

Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by shushu
Must have been some stupid crack whore.

Originally posted by unworldly
What a *FOOL* this woman is. Yes, I'm placing 100% of the blame squarely on her shoulders. I have no sympathy for this idiot.

Originally posted by Viking9019
she was practically asking for something to happen.

^ This is what the police said while scores of women were being murdered by a serial killer in Vancouver at a pig farm. This same indifference, ignorance, is what REALLY killed those women. SHAME ON YOU

www.forbes.com...

_______________________________

edit on 23/11/11 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

Yeah but there were bodies and proof that people died
seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Originally posted by subfab
reply to post by -W1LL

 

why did the woman stand so close to begin with?
can't someone go to one of the protests and stand in the back away from the chaos?
this is still exercising your rights without endagering yourself or your unborn child.

bad decision by the mother, bad decision by the officers involved.

-subfab

I think she was close to the front line because she was trying to leave before things got out of hand, the officers ignored her like they do all protesters and went about their routine.

I've met this girl before all this, their camp is on my school grounds, I see her, I'll try to get some answers. I can say that when I met her about a month ago. She did mention being pregnant.

reply to post by PrimalRed


Point is that the same people who laughed and cheered and applauded that murderer, are now laughing and cheering and applauding these police for beating the crap out of a woman. One and all, their refrain is that she "deserved it" just like how - to these same people - women deserve rape,children deserve abuse, animals deserve mitilation, etc.

Thankfully you are not such a person, I am sure!

But those who are are properly diagnosed as "psychopaths."

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Revolutionz
This cop should be locked up for years wheres the justice

Which cop is that???

OH RIGHT...there is no evidence of anything happening yet...so how about you wait to get the facts before you lock up a random "cop".

There's no video footage of her having been pepper-sprayed, but the effects are evident, and if she was beaten, then the effects are also evident. Please don't be so illogical as to demand videos of everything. Also, you're twisting things with the comment about locking up some 'random cop'.

She should certainly have erred on the side of caution, and stayed away.

But if some bastard assaulted her, they should be made to answer for it, and suffer the consequences. Maybe witnesses will corroborate her account.

Nobody should ever be assaulted, or even coralled, for taking part in a peaceful protest. Nobody should be condoning the violence used by either side. The day we denounce somebody for taking a stand for somthing they believe in is the day we wave a white flag to the corrupt. And when that happens, we can then truly blame ourselves entirely for all the crap that happens.

The Police had no right to punch or mistreat her, when she announced she was pregnant they should have taken her word and removed her from the protest, I also acknowledge the Police have a rough time at these protests, the anarchists who offend attend do not play fair, they throw urine and faeces at the Police as well as attempt to hurt them severely so its easy to not trust anyone in a crowd.

The one person who I feel is at blame the most is the woman her self, she's at what is classed as an illegal gathering, many of these gatherings have had violent outcomes, many of them result in people pushing and crowding in on each other, many of these places are filthy thanks to human disgusting behaviour and lastly most activists do not come quietly and are dragged away.

Now does all THAT sound like a place a pregnant mother should be in the middle of?

When my wife and I decided to have a child we did EVERYTHING by the book, my wife especially took amazing care of herself, she does not smoke but we did have a bottle af wine at the weekend, she stopped that, she ate right, she exercised right and basically cared totally about her baby so as little as possible could go wrong.

We had a lovely girl and she's grown up a treat.

Now that's what I expect all parents especially the mother to do, its a life for goodness sake, a life created by you, look after it.....

But as I look out around where I live I see young parents smoking drugs and ciggies, taking other drugs, getting stoned and drunk while pregnant, still going partying and eating crap, I also see their parent(s) doing exactly the same.

There's no care or worry about anything but having a good time...

This woman should take a lions share of the blame for putting that unborn child in a place that was so wrong to be in on all grounds. Maybe she will remember this if she ever decides to give birth again, she first and foremost chose to go to this gathering, she would not have been so stupid as to not have seen how these things go, these have been in the news daily since they started as have the attempts to remove the people. This was no where for a person doing the one thing that only a loving mother can do, give life to a child to be, as a parent you are instant charged with protecting that child, she made a very stupid choice.

This wasn't a trip to the fair, this wasn't a simple party, this was an illegal gathering with all the things that go on in them...

The Police that sprayed her and hit her should be fully investigated and put on charges for punching a woman.

Small edit:

To all that wrangle over if it was an illegal gathering or not just remember what she was by the thread title, a protester, protesters normally come into confrontations simply by the nature of what they do.

This was not the place to be however you look at it..

Originally posted by Toffeeapple


There's no video footage of her having been pepper-sprayed, but the effects are evident, and if she was beaten, then the effects are also evident. Please don't be so illogical as to demand videos of everything. Also, you're twisting things with the comment about locking up some 'random cop'.

There is no evidence of her being pregnant at any point, she has refused to share any information even ultrasound photographs she claims to have in her possession. I mean THAT would be a start to at least prove that she was actually pregnant ever.

Jesus F****** Christ. You people! I feel compelled to react to this conversation, but I'm damn near speechless.
Shame on any and all of you who blame the victim. Preganant, homeless, addicted - ( crack whore??? ) - these dumba$$, unproven slurs against this woman are irrelevant. The police have no moral or Constitutional Right to disperse freely assembled citizens. These protests are not hurting anybody. The police ( And their cowardly bosses behind their safe, cozy desks ) simply demand obedience because their egos cannot stand for their authority to be challenged. It is every United States Citizens' Right to peaceably assemble to exercise their First Amendment Rights. Period.

Check this out: S. O. P. 18-5 CIVIL DISTURBANCE
www.dca.state.ga.us...

This is a sample of police Standard Operating Procedures for controlling/ dispersing a crowd. I don't totally agree with all aspects of these SOPs, nor do I completely disagree with all of them. To me, it's a mixed bag, but the bottom line is that they give permission to basically do whatever their bosses tell them to do.

Now, check this out: Preventing Violence During Protests.wmv
www.youtube.com...
Dr. Mark Winton advises on prevention of violence at the OWS protests, based on the work of Dr. Randall Collins in his book titled, 'Violence'.

www.gangresearch.net...
“A forward panic is a zone in time where the emotional impulses are
overwhelming, above all because they are shared by everyone: by one’s
supporters and fellow attackers, and in a reciprocal way, by the passive
victims.” (p 121). The book is a superb commentary on how the emotional
energy created by the situation of forward panic produces violence. Collins
looks at infantry in war waiting until the instant occurs when a charge
leads to total domination: police ganging up to beat a helpless victim; mobs
at soccer games; sports teams on an emotional charge or “run”, and the
mob violence of lynching, among many other examples. Collins’ exhaustive
treatment of the forward panic is a major contribution to the literature and
the term is certain to become a standard part of our vocabulary on
violence.

This is a realistic approach to subject using logic, reason, psychology, and sociological principles.
Try a little logic, reason, and compassion in your critical thinking. You might learn something.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

Point is that the same people who laughed and cheered and applauded that murderer, are now laughing and cheering and applauding these police for beating the crap out of a woman. One and all, their refrain is that she "deserved it" just like how - to these same people - women deserve rape,children deserve abuse, animals deserve mitilation, etc.

Again with the straw man... nobody said anything about deserving rape abuse and mutilation. you and everyone should read up
seattletimes.nwsource.com...
Her story is not looking good