Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

Originally posted by PrimalRed

Originally posted by Toffeeapple


There's no video footage of her having been pepper-sprayed, but the effects are evident, and if she was beaten, then the effects are also evident. Please don't be so illogical as to demand videos of everything. Also, you're twisting things with the comment about locking up some 'random cop'.

There is no evidence of her being pregnant at any point, she has refused to share any information even ultrasound photographs she claims to have in her possession. I mean THAT would be a start to at least prove that she was actually pregnant ever.

I expect you'd like to see a video of her miscarrying?

She's refused to share any information with whom? If this is investigated, it should be easy enough to verify the authenticity (or otherwise) of the pregnancy.

reply to post by Mclaneinc

The one person who I feel is at blame the most is the woman her self

The most? You blame the mother more than those who beat her because she mistakenly thought that she lived in a country where she had the right to peacefully protest?

Originally posted by moonzoo7
Jesus F****** Christ. You people! I feel compelled to react to this conversation, but I'm damn near speechless.
Shame on any and all of you who blame the victim. Preganant, homeless, addicted - ( crack whore??? ) - these dumba$$, unproven slurs against this woman are irrelevant. The police have no moral or Constitutional Right to disperse freely assembled citizens. These protests are not hurting anybody. The police ( And their cowardly bosses behind their safe, cozy desks ) simply demand obedience because their egos cannot stand for their authority to be challenged. It is every United States Citizens' Right to peaceably assemble to exercise their First Amendment Rights. Period.

Check this out: www.dca.state.ga.us...
S. O. P. 18-5 CIVIL DISTURBANCE

So after removing the political swipe which has nothing to do with the answer, so you still make her blameless?

A woman who is pregnant choosing to be at a political protest knowing that Police were being asked to disperse the crowds, a place where people who had NOTHING to do with the Political point of any of this had gathered, where anarchists had infiltrated the ranks.

So her baby has no rights for the mother to do anything in her ability to stop harm happening?

No matter how you look at this that woman should never have taken her unborn child to a place that is volatile, I don't care if she was a college professor of an unemployed homeless person, the though for the child should have been first in her thoughts, not waving banners or joining protests.

Originally posted by Toffeeapple


I expect you'd like to see a video of her miscarrying?

She's refused to share any information with whom? If this is investigated, it should be easy enough to verify the authenticity (or otherwise) of the pregnancy.

No video of her miscarrying is necessary but to provide ultra sound pictures that she had in her possession would greatly help out.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...
In an interview Tuesday at the Occupy Seattle encampment on Capitol Hill, Fox said she had three ultrasound pictures of her fetus in her tent, but declined to show them to reporters.

She also said she did not plan to pick up medical records at Harborview Medical Center that could document the miscarriage until after a planned memorial service Saturday, and she declined to sign a waiver allowing reporters to obtain the documents independently. She said the baby was a girl, to be named Miracle.

And a previous police report in september where she is also claiming to be 3 months pregnant does not help her case.
www.thestranger.com...
Her name was poorly covered up but you can clearly see the F and the X at the end

reply to post by PrimalRed


No, but plenty of people are, in fact, saying this woman deserved to be beaten. and that if she were pregnant, she deserved to miscarry. These tend to be the same people who get off on those other things I mentioned.

Myself, I don't care if she was pregnant or not. The point remains, she got the crap kicked out of her by cops for daring to be on a public street advocating her rights.

That doesn't really seem to bother you though. Maybe you're just inured to police violence? The potential of this person lying is far more riveting to you than the context of the situation, where the violence was very real, and very documented.

reply to post by PrimalRed


Thanks for posting that.

It is really pathetic that people here take the time to defend her as if her story is a forgone conclusion, but they can't be bothered to read the actual updated story. The links have been provided several times folks. If you're too lazy to read them then please can it!

Christ! I signed up here thinking that there would be people interested in educating themselves with all the information available before running their yap. Instead it's the same rabble that infects the rest of the interwebz.

Color me disappointed.


NOTE: This does not appy to the few that are working to uncover good info. You all are the only reason I am still here and not completely disgusted after only 5 days on this site...

She's not obliged to show them to reporters - I personally wouldn't trust Faux News reporters as far as I could shot -put them. And it only says she's not collecting her records till after a remembrance ceremony. Have a heart!

Is it the norm over there for arrest sheets to be publicly released? I'm finding that odd.

reply to post by Mclaneinc


Everyone should always stay home, because the police will get you if you don't. Pregnant? Stay home! Elderly? Stay home! Suspicious skin color ?Stay home! Some sort of illness or diability? Stay home! Veteran? Stay home! made of meat? Stay home!

Nobody anywhere do anything ever, or else the police will get you!

Most slaves at least have the self-dignity to not lock their own shackles. What's your story, Uncle Remus?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

Myself, I don't care if she was pregnant or not. The point remains, she got the crap kicked out of her by cops for daring to be on a public street advocating her rights.

A couple things here
1. That "point" does not remain, if she is lying about being pregnant it is not a far leap to say she made up the kick and the bike ram to the gut.
2. You do NOT have the "right" to be on the street.

The First Amendment is not absolute. Government can make reasonable stipulations about the time, place and manner a peaceable protest can take place, as long as those restrictions are applied in a content-neutral way.

But what constitutes a reasonable time, place and manner restriction? "It depends on the context and circumstances," said Geoffrey Stone, a professor specializing in constitutional law at the University of Chicago. "Things like noise, blockage of ordinary uses of the place, blockage of traffic and destruction of property allow the government to regulate speakers."

Stone gave a few examples of impeding ordinary usage: disturbing patients at a hospital, preventing students from going to school, or, more relevant for the Occupy movement, disrupting the flow of traffic for a long period of time.

If you go back through the thread you can see videos where people are walking freely all around even the protesters. The only ones who got sprayed were the ones refusing to get out of the intersection.

So now that's it's looking like this story is going to turn out to be bogus, what do think the motivation might be?

It might be an attempt to get sympathy for OWS. If so,orchestrated by who? It seems that a homeless girl would be the most vulnerable and easiest person to co-opt into such a story. Was she acting alone or is there more to it?

On the other hand it could be the old double-cross. This incident could be designed to scare some protesters away, while inciting others to violence. Afterwards when she can't come up with proof it helps to discredit OWS. Double whammy for TPTB.

On the third hand, it may all be on the level. If this is the case then violence will likely result, because no one will be brought to justice.

What do you think?

reply to post by Mclaneinc


I accidentally posted before I was finished. read the whole post if you want to be objective. I was in the middle of adding my content

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
She's not obliged to show them to reporters - I personally wouldn't trust Faux News reporters as far as I could shot -put them. And it only says she's not collecting her records till after a remembrance ceremony. Have a heart!

Who said anything about Faux news???? She was talking to a blogger who first came up with the story then she started talking to a guy from the stranger which is a small news operation.

Is it the norm over there for arrest sheets to be publicly released? I'm finding that odd.

edit on 23-11-2011 by Toffeeapple because: (no reason given)

Nope it is not normal.It came from an anonymous source, does it really change anything? In a few days once this gets investigated the entire truth will come out.

Originally posted by moonzoo7
Jesus F****** Christ. You people! I feel compelled to react to this conversation, but I'm damn near speechless.
Shame on any and all of you who blame the victim. Preganant, homeless, addicted - ( crack whore??? ) - these dumba$$, unproven slurs against this woman are irrelevant. The police have no moral or Constitutional Right to disperse freely assembled citizens. These protests are not hurting anybody. The police ( And their cowardly bosses behind their safe, cozy desks ) simply demand obedience because their egos cannot stand for their authority to be challenged. It is every United States Citizens' Right to peaceably assemble to exercise their First Amendment Rights. Period.

Check this out: S. O. P. 18-5 CIVIL DISTURBANCE
www.dca.state.ga.us...

This is a sample of police Standard Operating Procedures for controlling/ dispersing a crowd. I don't totally agree with all aspects of these SOPs, nor do I completely disagree with all of them. To me, it's a mixed bag, but the bottom line is that they give permission to basically do whatever their bosses tell them to do.

Now, check this out: Preventing Violence During Protests.wmv
www.youtube.com...
Dr. Mark Winton advises on prevention of violence at the OWS protests, based on the work of Dr. Randall Collins in his book titled, 'Violence'.

www.gangresearch.net...
“A forward panic is a zone in time where the emotional impulses are
overwhelming, above all because they are shared by everyone: by one’s
supporters and fellow attackers, and in a reciprocal way, by the passive
victims.” (p 121). The book is a superb commentary on how the emotional
energy created by the situation of forward panic produces violence. Collins
looks at infantry in war waiting until the instant occurs when a charge
leads to total domination: police ganging up to beat a helpless victim; mobs
at soccer games; sports teams on an emotional charge or “run”, and the
mob violence of lynching, among many other examples. Collins’ exhaustive
treatment of the forward panic is a major contribution to the literature and
the term is certain to become a standard part of our vocabulary on
violence.

This is a realistic approach to subject using logic, reason, psychology, and sociological principles.
Try a little logic, reason, and compassion in your critical thinking. You might learn something.

edit on 23-11-2011 by moonzoo7 because: accidenatlly posted before I finshed the content

edit on 23-11-2011 by moonzoo7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2011 by moonzoo7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2011 by moonzoo7 because: (no reason given)

I accidentally posted before I was finished. I want to give my full, intended post a chance to be seen as it was meant to be seen. Not trying to "double post" for any other reason.

Again...

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
Is it the norm over there for arrest sheets to be publicly released? I'm finding that odd.

edit on 23-11-2011 by Toffeeapple because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by -W1LL

I am sure there will be people who say she deserved it just for being there... well i just said it so you can spread your hate somewhere else.

No, she did not deserve this to happen to her, however it's called being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

She wins no prizes for her troubles being an idiot and endangering the life of her unborn child. As much as you don't want to hear it, she to put herself and her baby in harms way.

No she didn't, the cops put her in harms way. Duh.

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
Again...

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
Is it the norm over there for arrest sheets to be publicly released? I'm finding that odd.

edit on 23-11-2011 by Toffeeapple because: (no reason given)

scroll up

reply to post by Toffeeapple


That would support a hypothesis of this whole thing being orchestrated to discredit OWS. She can't prove her story and now this police report comes out potentially refuting it? From an anon source within a day? Seems fishy.


Maybe all the people arguing over "whose fault is it" should pay attention. Your emotions are getting in the way of your ability to critically analyze the situation as it stands. Of course that means that you all are the sods that this trap was set for in the first place.

Life is very simple in the USA.

You have the right to assemble. You have a right to free speech. The police have the requirement to enforce any ordinances and laws that may conflict with they above. Trespassing, Blocking Traffic and noise restrictions.

At no time do you have the right to tell the police to F off and ignore their warnings and instructions. You do however have the right to take the town, city, state to court for violating your above rights.

If you think about it tactfully it would make more sense to flood the lower level courts with lawsuits than to gain five minutes of fame on some YouTube video.

Originally posted by PrimalRed

Originally posted by Toffeeapple
She's not obliged to show them to reporters - I personally wouldn't trust Faux News reporters as far as I could shot -put them. And it only says she's not collecting her records till after a remembrance ceremony. Have a heart!

Who said anything about Faux news???? She was talking to a blogger who first came up with the story then she started talking to a guy from the stranger which is a small news operation.

Is it the norm over there for arrest sheets to be publicly released? I'm finding that odd.

edit on 23-11-2011 by Toffeeapple because: (no reason given)

Nope it is not normal.It came from an anonymous source, does it really change anything? In a few days once this gets investigated the entire truth will come out.

Apologies - my brain associated 'Fox' & 'reporters' incorretly.

But you're giving credence to some blogger and an 'anonymous source' to slur this woman, so you're proving nothing, whilst calling for videos as proof from her.

Originally posted by ShockTruther
reply to post by Toffeeapple

 

That would support a hypothesis of this whole thing being orchestrated to discredit OWS. She can't prove her story and now this police report comes out potentially refuting it? From an anon source within a day? Seems fishy.


Maybe all the people arguing over "whose fault is it" should pay attention. Your emotions are getting in the way of your ability to critically analyze the situation as it stands. Of course that means that you all are the sods that this trap was set for in the first place.

Stop trying to be superior, matey. Where is it highlighted that she, "Can't" prove her story? Nowhere. You're making assumptions.