Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

Originally posted by thejlxc
Blame the woman for DARING to go and voice her First Amendment right in public! For shame!

Blame the woman for putting her unborn child in what is known to be a dangerous situation.
That's just the truth of it.
She can voice her first amendment rights in other ways ... without endangering her unborn child.
She did not HAVE to be there.

pretending she should live in fear and cower in her home while her childs future is being decided by sociopaths is delusional thinking at it's best.

Pretending that is what people here have said ... it's delusional thinking at it's best.

Pretending that OWS rallies don't have violence ... it's delusional thinking at it's best.

Pretending that the woman didn't have a responsibility to take care of her unborn child .. it's delusional thinking at it's best.

Pretending that her childs entire future is being decided by sociopaths and that OWS isn't loaded with the same sociopaths and full of morons wanting a free ride ... it's delusional thinking at it's best.

Originally posted by Hiasyouwant
This woman should be tried for murder. She knew where she was going, she knew the circumstances, and she knew it wasn't a safe place to be for a prego woman.

Premeditated Murder by the woman.

GUILTY!

I surely hope her little cardboard sign was worth it for her, because she's the only who has to live with this.

Wha? Seriously. Wow.

Um. Where on Earth right now IS there a "safe" place for prego woman, as you call them, to go? What magical world do they live in without fear of violence or accident? Statistically, the home is the most dangerous place for accidents! She shouldn't go home! Oh no!!!!!!

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu

Originally posted by Kali74
Unreal, most of you in this thread are saying whether you realize it or not:
Do not protest the government or the police might hurt you.

There are other ways to create change. We could turn our backs on the system and recreate it without the overlords.

Well, there's this little thing called "the law" and ...

You see, apart form practical difficulties, the inherent problem in your suggestion is the idea that we ought to live within a system in the first place.

Maybe she should not have been there, but there is nothing that says she can not be there.

She is homeless so she might not have been able to see the media reports about the violence of some of the police and the protestors.
edit to add: She "describes" herself as homeless, but this is questionable. She may not have even been pregnant. This may be a lie... regardless it does not change what I say below.

The world is a violent place where violence begets violence most of the time. Her unborn child was in the way of danger before she even stepped foot at that protest - she was homeless and the streets are a dangerous place to begin with even without the police/protestor interaction.

Children, born and not yet born, are not even safe from violence in our own homes. Children are not safe from violence at schools or in the park.

Violence can happen anywhere at anytime by anyone.... so how do we avoid this hazardous situation?

The simple fact is people cause violence and it can not be avoided because people can not be avoided.
Society has made violence acceptable buy use of violence. Society has made violence entertaining.
And it has been that way for thousands of years... it is a "status quo" the state in which things have always been.
Go ahead and point a finger at the police. Point a finger at the protestors. But remember there are three fingers pointing right back at you (and for that matter me too).
No matter what "side" you are on... you are participating.

reply to post by FlyersFan


So your entire argument is this then?

She took her unborn child to a peaceful demonstration and did not provoke the officers or do anything really, but since she got hurt by the police bad enough to lose her child, she should know better than do use her First Amendment Rights if pregnant?

So should we Ban Women from having the First Amendment while pregnant?

Your argument is the worst sort of dehumanization and I am astounded. Yes, it's always the victims fault. Sick world. Sick people.

Originally posted by DrinkYourDrug
reply to post by Mclaneinc

 

The one person who I feel is at blame the most is the woman her self

The most? You blame the mother more than those who beat her because she mistakenly thought that she lived in a country where she had the right to peacefully protest?

Are the others peacefully protesting?

Have there not been clashes at these camps?

Have most of the serious protesters stayed or are most of who's there just having a mini rave?

Are all these people employed?

This isn't about a peaceful protest, this is about the fact that a woman who is pregnant decided to enter a camp that as with others was to be removed, as seen a lot of these people don't go quietly..

Was the choice for a pregnant women to go to this a sound choice for her child, did she even bother to think about the kid?

Probably not..

Fact the Police were and are raiding these camps for numerous reasons, in many cases because drugs and needles are present, now unless she didn't watch TV or thought this was normal I think she should have kept a million miles away.

What has happened only proved that sadly.

I call a peaceful protest about 10 people with placards either walking the streets in a group or sitting in one place for a while and then dispersing, when it gets to 50 - 200 people the same stuff always happens, the activists and anarchists go there, trouble starts and it turns into a mini rave..

That's how it goes every time..

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Pregnant women have the same rights as other people. Including the right to protest,

Sure.
And she has a right to protest in other - safer - ways.
And cops have a right to control crowds that have a history of breaking the law.
And unborn babies have a right to expect their mothers not to take them into dangerous situations.

they also carry the reasonable expectation that they will not be physically assaulted by the same police force that is supposedly there to protect them.

The reasonable expectation is that going to a rally of a movement with a history of violence and use of chemical crowd control means that there is a good chance there will be more violence and more chemical crowd control.

All the people saying she was an idiot, either grow up, or get schooled in basic female anatomy.

All the people saying she wasn't an idiot, either grow up, or get schooled in basic female anatomy. Here ya' go ... pregnant women unnecessarily putting themselves in situations that include violence and chemical crowd control means that they are putting their unborn child/children at risk of death. It's just that simple.

I don't see what the problem is for her going to the protest.

Dead unborn child. See it now?

And any cop who kicks or assaults a pregant women in this manner is a punk, pure and simple.

Sure. But the fact is that a rally full of emotion and turmoil isn't going to suddenly FREEZE because one of the protesters says "i'm pregant'. It's absurd to think it would. She was an idiot for putting herself and her child in that situation. Totally unnecessary.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Mclaneinc

 

Everyone should always stay home, because the police will get you if you don't. Pregnant? Stay home! Elderly? Stay home! Suspicious skin color ?Stay home! Some sort of illness or diability? Stay home! Veteran? Stay home! made of meat? Stay home!

Nobody anywhere do anything ever, or else the police will get you!

Most slaves at least have the self-dignity to not lock their own shackles. What's your story, Uncle Remus?

This isn't to do with a Police state and either you know it or are set on just turning this into a political nonsense thread. If all you want to do is virtually wave a placard then please don't reply to my stuff.

Would you encourage your pregnant friend or girlfriend or partner or wife to go to a protest meeting where you clearly have seen clashes with Police at numerous very similar protests, if the answer is yes then I don't think very much of your devotion or friendship.

At the moment here in the UK we have a mini siege / protest re the same stuff at St Pauls cathedral, do you know what's happening at this 'protest'?

The place is covered in excrement, its so bad that the 'protesters' are defecating in side the halls of the church and around its outskirts. The church has been defaced by the protesters with graffiti and filthy words etched into the wooden doors. Pretty much the whole place is a drug den, they have caught people with class A stuff and loads of cannabis, there's used needles everywhere and some charmers have brought their children to live in this.

Class parenting....

Add to that the 'protesters' are interrupting the services while screaming filth..

Now if that's going on here I'm sure its going on there, still a place for a pregnant woman?

So you beat your right to protest drum and while its appropriate to protest its NOT appropriate to use a political protest just so you can have a mini drug camp, they are sorry losers, stoned dangerous drug filled defecating useless pieces of life with one aim, to do as little as possible while someone pays and clears up after them.

And of course, the exact place a pregnant woman should be!

Sigh....Have fun presumed tree hugger...

edit on 23-11-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

Could You please provide proof of the allagations You have made here about the occupy St pauls area, as I have seen very different evidence showing how meticuosly carefull about been ultra tidy and cleanthey are been to avoid this kind of disinformation.
has someone paid You to post such claims?
gravitor

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by DrinkYourDrug
reply to post by Mclaneinc

 

The one person who I feel is at blame the most is the woman her self

The most? You blame the mother more than those who beat her because she mistakenly thought that she lived in a country where she had the right to peacefully protest?

Are the others peacefully protesting?

Have there not been clashes at these camps?

Have most of the serious protesters stayed or are most of who's there just having a mini rave?

Are all these people employed?

This isn't about a peaceful protest, this is about the fact that a woman who is pregnant decided to enter a camp that as with others was to be removed, as seen a lot of these people don't go quietly..

Was the choice for a pregnant women to go to this a sound choice for her child, did she even bother to think about the kid?

Probably not..

Fact the Police were and are raiding these camps for numerous reasons, in many cases because drugs and needles are present, now unless she didn't watch TV or thought this was normal I think she should have kept a million miles away.

What has happened only proved that sadly.

I call a peaceful protest about 10 people with placards either walking the streets in a group or sitting in one place for a while and then dispersing, when it gets to 50 - 200 people the same stuff always happens, the activists and anarchists go there, trouble starts and it turns into a mini rave..

That's how it goes every time..

Evidence of needles please, otherwise I will begin to think You are a paid liar.
gravitor

Originally posted by thejlxc
So your entire argument is this then?

Wrong.

She took her unborn child to a peaceful demonstration

She took her unborn child to a protest in which it had been well documented that violence and the use of chemical crowd control was used. She took her unborn child to a protest in which anarchists have been pooping and peeing everywhere causing unsanitary conditions. She took her unborn child to a place that was unstable.

did not provoke the officers or do anything really,

And you know this ... how? Doesn't matter if SHE provoked them or not.
She was part of a crowd of anarchists and THEY provoked them.

she should know better than do use her First Amendment Rights if pregnant?
So should we Ban Women from having the First Amendment while pregnant?

Silly silly silly Already addressed that. But you only see what you want.
There are OTHER ways ... safe ways ... for her to protest. She did not HAVE to be there.
She has a responsibility to the life in her womb. She failed to protect it.

Your argument is the worst sort of dehumanization and I am astounded. .

Your argument is silly ... the worst sort of not bothering to listen to reason and truth .. and I am astounded.

Originally posted by thejlxc
Statistically, the home is the most dangerous place for accidents! She shouldn't go home! Oh no!!!!!!

Really? Is that so? More dangerous than working in a coal mine or on an oil rig? You do understand that most people in the world spend most of their time at home, right?

reply to post by RainbeauBleu


I hope people pay particular attention to your one sentence:

Police will continue to be violent and will be getting more violent in the future despite any hand slaps. That's the plan. This incident will reinforce the fear among the people. It's psychological warfare.

Starred.

Now, anyone else out there pregnant, don't go to OWS - you now know SOME of the police protect and serve the 1% and not the 99% that really pay their wages.

Note I said SOME not all, most are good cops.

Another idea.....................if anyone goes, yes it's expensive but bring, borrow, buy a used one, new one.......but get a gas mask, good hard helmet, steel tip boots you can run in, and cover up as much of your skin with thick clothing as possible................come prepared in case.

The 99% all around the world are getting real friggin tired of the 1% taking advantage of them and more people are waking up, uniting and rebelling.

I myself wish no violence, violence is sad.................but be safe people. Study the riots in Egypt and the rest of the world, learn how to minimize your chances of injury.

Personally, I hope that woman gets enough money to live comfortably..............did they say she was also kicked?

Pepper spraying and kicking a pregnant woman is about as low down as you can go.

My husband says the cop was suspended.................he ought to be held accountable for murder.

Now, for you out there saying what about abortion.............this has nothing to do with that.

This young woman chose to have this baby.

Yes I totally agree she did not use good judgement..............when I was pregnant I was real careful. But she was peacefully demonstrating in a public place and the police are suppose to protect and serve.

Again, that one cop that spayed her was serving the 1% in my opinion......a traitor.


This program poses the frightening question, "What would happen if our government eliminated the Bill of Rights?" That possibility is dramatically explored when, after living in a remote jungle without media access, the Gordon family returns to the U.S. Soon they learn that women and girls have been declared the legal property of men. The family comes to realize that the Bill of Rights is no longer in effect: females and minorities have lost all rights; boys are taken from their families and forced into military service. In a so-called election, Mr. Gordon is forced to vote for the incumbent government. When the family tries to leave the country, they learn that they may depart only if 12-year-old Todd is sacrificed as a lung donor for the son of a presidential supporter. The program leaves viewers to ponder choices they would make if faced with a similar situation. Excerpted from the longer program, What's Right With America, this classroom version provides compelling media support for American history, American government, and citizenship/civics units on the principles and philosophy represented in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, as well as individual civic responsibilities.



The movie above was made on a cheap budget and not well written, however there aren't many like this to chose from........at least it gives one a idea of what if.

We the People of America have the right to peacefully assemble.

Now, I get most of my "real news" from the net...............sad, scary.

ATS Thread - Pregnant Seattle protester who miscarried ... she's a LIAR according to her relatives

Interesting twist .... Either she's an idiot to take an unborn child to the situation ... or she's a liar.
Wonder if she really said "i'm pregant" when the cops came in for crowd control ....
Wonder if she really was pregnant or just using it as a tactic to get out of trouble ...
Wonder if the parents of the girl are telling the truth or if there is more there ...
Wonder if this will get buried by the left wing press ...

Edited to add ... she's planning to sue for 20 million dollars.
So much for her alleged principles against $$$ and corruption ...

Originally posted by Eye of Horus
reply to post by -W1LL

 

My question would be why would a pregant woman go to a protest march? Especially when theyve shown the protestors geting beatin and sprayed by the cops. So she knew she had a 50/50 chance of geting into trouble, but she went anyway and was beaten and lost her baby.
What an idiot...now she'll have to live with the thought of who or what her baby could have grown up to be, but will never happen now since she took it to a protest and it died before it was born...

The woman should be slapped..
And the cops should be shot.

And I'll probably be censored again...

WOOT.

Nah, that's what it comes down to. As has been repeated at least 40 times, A) Why go to a protest while pregnant? B) Why advance on a woman who has stated she is pregnant, then assault and pepper spray her. But we can let our emotion take over and choose a side if we wish. Over and over again.

Not everybody leaves their home and predicts the end of their day. Even staying behind a few extra minutes in one place can ensure between life and death. Just by using the washroom instead of leaving your home where 5 minutes prior a speeding vehicle could have swept you up. These are the conditions of a randomly generated set of events in such a world, and through that we feel bold enough to say who is wrong, who is right. Here we have someone's choice, and here we have the armed approach of the people said to protect.

I think I read a couple times that it was probably her intent to miscarriage at this event? We are venting our anger and sorrow as a reflection of if such an event was to happen to us. Just because someone decided to do something at a certain time, while three months pregnant is on them. Just because the cops unnecessarily advanced, that's on them. Welcome to a world where the physical stares up at the flow of time.

reply to post by OneisOne


Cha-Ching, payday!

I'm sorry, I don't believe a word of what this woman is saying and I'm a stinky, pinko, uber evil liberal. I think she's just trying to get attention. It's not difficult to get your medical records and the fact she refuses to show at least a doctor's diagnosis of miscarriage is a big red flag for me.

Ladies and gents, stop straying off topic and address the simple facts here..

NO ONE is saying that you don't have the right to protest

NO ONE is saying the Police have the right to abuse you

NO ONE is saying a pregnant woman should not go to a protest.

What *I* am saying is that she like it or not has a duty of care to that child (that's if there was a child according to posts of reports on here), you would NOT in your right mind take a child to a volatile area no matter if you were going to stay at the back or not. This had started as a protest and then descended into 'hippie and activist outing', people were doing drugs, discarding needles, urinating and defecating publicly.

That in itself is NOT a safe environment for ANY ONE let alone a pregnant woman.

She would have also been aware that the camps were being moved on by Police which NORMALLY ends in a confrontation, sometimes people barge / stampede everywhere to escape, there was EVERY possibility of this turning ugly YET she still chose to go.

I'm sorry, she (if there was a child) MUST accept either stupidity or part of the blame..

To those people playing nit pick, please address the facts here, not your personal political views, the facts. This is not about people being raped, seen as objects or so on as used in this thread rather stupidly I say, this is about if a pregnant woman should really have taken herself to such a volatile event while knowing what events were taking place around not just the US but globally.

And stop saying these are Protest camps, while there may be the odd protester there a majority are the sort of people who currently are crapping and peeing all over St Pauls here in the UK, they are doing drugs all over the place and its basically a mini bong event.

Originally posted by Revealation
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

She wasn't bungee jumping or at an abortion clinic. Stop trying to make excuses for an unjustifiable action. Fact is if she wasn't pregnant , The scumbag stil has no right to touch anyone, unless they are in physical danger. That's the excuse they use to justify it. Fact is everyone knows they go with a mob mentality backed by corrupt, manmade, laws manipulated into their favor.

the mafia had their own laws too, doesn't make them right. the pigs make the mafia look like choir boys.

Oh cut out the drama.

The mafia actually go around killing pregnant women and babies. And a host of horrific other things.

Blaming the mother for going to a protest is ridiculous. I'm sorry but this is supposed to be a free country where we are allowed to exercise our rights. There is no "expectation" of violence. One should not EXPECT to get beaten and pepper sprayed by the police. Even if she wasn't pregnant, the police officers actions should be looked at.

Honestly... some of these responses make me ill. "Oh its her fault. She should not have been there". Ok. So I guess she also shouldn't ride in a car. Or ride the subway. Hey.. someone might push her onto the rails. It happens. Oops.. she shouldn't eat food either because she could choke. Oh.. better not breath the air either because it can contain toxic chemicals.

This is nothing more than making excuses for the rampant police brutality occurring in our country. Police officers are more and more beginning to resemble Overseers on a plantation rather than peace officers.

"Overseer..overseer.. overseer.. overseer officer officer officer officer...."
-KRS ONE "Sound of the Police"

Apparently this woman refuses (according to Seattle Times) to offer proof she was ever pregnant or had a miscarriage.

Here is a link. I'm new and I hope it's ok to post a link.

www.kirotv.com...

Maybe people in this thread should learn the basics of either having an opinion or pushing and forcing an opinion. In the end of the day nothing changes, you keep propelling the same argument based on what web "facts" you have. Am I the only one who skims a thread, sees the general two opinions, over and over again, accomplishing nothing, and just lets out a sigh at how spiteful and righteous people feel?

I'm no different, but Elementary school was a long time ago for most, I'd hope.