Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

Originally posted by SecretFace
I'm sorry but if she was pregnant then that is just absolutely irresponsible and stupid to the point that she clearly did not value the life of her unborn child! People are very much aware of what is happening at these OWS sites and the high probability of violent conflict and yet she still made the choice to go, did her unborn child have a choice to go? What benefit to her unborn child was it that she went there and put her unborn child in harms way? This is no different than bringing a newborn baby to a riot! Anyone who has sympathy for this woman needs their head seen to!

Yeah! The cops should be able to kick as many disobedient women in the stomach as they please! Stay home preggos.

Being that 99% of the population has become screwed over and have become screwed up because of it, they are being honest and showing the world how screwed up they have become... I have worked in a private psychiatric hospital that was too costly to take in patients that weren't from well to do powerful families... Trust me when I say that the spawn of the ultra rich are far sicker than the sickest of the poor.... You just never see them.

reply to post by PrimalRed

HIPPA
You expect this chic to release all her medical records as though that's not a complicated ordeal. I would NEVER release my private medical records to the public .

Originally posted by SecretFace
I'm sorry but if she was pregnant then that is just absolutely irresponsible and stupid to the point that she clearly did not value the life of her unborn child! People are very much aware of what is happening at these OWS sites and the high probability of violent conflict and yet she still made the choice to go, did her unborn child have a choice to go? What benefit to her unborn child was it that she went there and put her unborn child in harms way? This is no different than bringing a newborn baby to a riot! Anyone who has sympathy for this woman needs their head seen to!

No.

Clearly this women was just confused and thought she lived in a free country where her first amendment rights were protected. She was wrong.

The bottom line is she shouldn't have to worry about blatent abuse like that and niether should anyone else. Little kids should be able to protest...I did it when I was 11 years old to get rid of mike harris in ontario. And im damn proud of it. And the minute people lay down and put no nut comments like you just out for people to hear to justify this nonsense and pretend everything is alright its a very scary world. Jeez man realize what you are saying.

reply to post by truthinfact


No, they didn't murder "that baby"... they caused her to miscarry, which is assault with deadly intent. She could have bled to death. We have to STOP assigning personhood to babies who aren't born yet; otherwise, the "pregnant at conception" will become the Law of the Land, which will lead to setting women's rights back 60 years.

Granted - she should never have been hit in the stomach, or kicked, or pepper sprayed. NO ONE should have been. What we need to do is reign in the rights of the police to spray and hurt people who are not attempting to harm the police. We need to get our facts straight and look at the reality, even if we don't like it. Otherwise, we will be in a worse world of hurt for a very long time. Women will lose the right to control their own bodies, and only the brainwashed women of today believe we should be set back to the 1950s.

reply to post by DrinkYourDrug


I take it you don't agree with the fact that she had a duty of care to her unborn child? Are you someone who feels that we all have responsibility for a person's child? That someone should have a child and then expect the world to take care of it? Regardless of what the Police did, she should not have been in that position in the first place and allowed herself to not only be at an event that had a high potential of violence that she must've been aware of, but also in a position where she is practically front line to that violence. She is to blame of the loss of her unborn child by making the choice to put her unborn child in harms way. If a woman crosses a train track and gets hit by a train is it the train drivers fault? She knew the risk and got involved anyway, it's been well documented what the Police have been like, she has no excuse. She is an irresponsible woman who in my opinion if this was a prelude to her actions as a mother, is unfit to be a mother anyway!

reply to post by SecretFace


So are you also saying the actions by the police are justified?
I'm not attacking you, but you put all the blame on the woman, as if she got what was coming to her.

I hate to say this, but for the unborn sake. The police and the woman share 50/50, both of them should be punished.
However, we do have the right to peacefully assemble right?
this ones a doosey.

Originally posted by godfather420

Originally posted by SecretFace
I'm sorry but if she was pregnant then that is just absolutely irresponsible and stupid to the point that she clearly did not value the life of her unborn child! People are very much aware of what is happening at these OWS sites and the high probability of violent conflict and yet she still made the choice to go, did her unborn child have a choice to go? What benefit to her unborn child was it that she went there and put her unborn child in harms way? This is no different than bringing a newborn baby to a riot! Anyone who has sympathy for this woman needs their head seen to!

No.

Clearly this women was just confused and thought she lived in a free country where her first amendment rights were protected. She was wrong.

The bottom line is she shouldn't have to worry about blatent abuse like that and niether should anyone else. Little kids should be able to protest...I did it when I was 11 years old to get rid of mike harris in ontario. And im damn proud of it. And the minute people lay down and put no nut comments like you just out for people to hear to justify this nonsense and pretend everything is alright its a very scary world. Jeez man realize what you are saying.

No, you realise what you are saying!

It is well documented and well known, even by everyone here, that the Police can be heavy handed and can be aggressive. Knowing that knowledge, you can't go on about freedom this and the right to say that when you know that 9 out of 10 times the Police will spray you and then give you a beat down. That is the reality, so live in the real world! When you know that information, what excuse have you got to put yourself and your unborn baby in a situation that will most likely lead to violence? You can't just live in this pathetic bubble where you keep moaning about rights and freedoms when the reality is not going to stop a copper caving your head in should you be in that position and then say afterwards I have a right to free speech blah blah blah. They don't care what you think you have a right to, you know the reality and the reality is that the Police will be heavy handed, so again moaning about your freedoms and rights afterwards means nothing when faced with the reality! She knew the reality and if she didn't, she wouldn't have been there in the first place! You all keep moaning about Police heavy handedness like its a shock to you! It's been like this for over a hundred years, you know the score, so deal with it! When you go to these protests that will more than likely end in conflict the Police will use heavy tactics, end of. You fight or you flee, but you don't act shocked and make stupid excuses when the copper does what we all know he is going to do! Bottom line, she should not have been there! Her actions put her child in harms way and as a result she lost her baby.

It's about time for other countries to send in their troops in America and stop the violence against the protesters.

:@

It's been a while since I've checked on ATS, seems I haven't missed that much.

Cheers!

Again, I'm still not sure about this story. The red flags to me are:

1) The cop kicked her I may be off base, but I doubt kicking is employed. It would put the cop off balance and potentially on his ass. Cops receive training so that they don't make mistakes that would put themselves in danger like that.

2) She's homeless Don't lose your sit, just consider. A homeless girl is probably the most vulnerable, disenfranchised and therefore the most easily co-opted person in our society. If it was someone with something to lose by lying I wouldn't be as suspect.

3) The doc said the pepper spray "got to the fetus" This smells real funny right here.

4) She's in no hurry to release the records The guy from The Stranger offered her a ride to the clinic to get the records and even handed her a release form. She wanted to wait for some reason.

Read thisfor a full account so far.

reply to post by SecretFace


So your saying we need to just deal with it?

Originally posted by godfather420

Originally posted by SecretFace
I'm sorry but if she was pregnant then that is just absolutely irresponsible and stupid to the point that she clearly did not value the life of her unborn child! People are very much aware of what is happening at these OWS sites and the high probability of violent conflict and yet she still made the choice to go, did her unborn child have a choice to go? What benefit to her unborn child was it that she went there and put her unborn child in harms way? This is no different than bringing a newborn baby to a riot! Anyone who has sympathy for this woman needs their head seen to!

No.

Clearly this women was just confused and thought she lived in a free country where her first amendment rights were protected. She was wrong.

The bottom line is she shouldn't have to worry about blatent abuse like that and niether should anyone else. Little kids should be able to protest...I did it when I was 11 years old to get rid of mike harris in ontario. And im damn proud of it. And the minute people lay down and put no nut comments like you just out for people to hear to justify this nonsense and pretend everything is alright its a very scary world. Jeez man realize what you are saying.

This girl was homeless. As such she was no doubt very familiar with police violence. I agree with another commenter that this is the real world. I stand by my ideals too, but both I and my pregnant wife know that she has no business being there.

reply to post by MrGrimm


Yes we do, but as I have said, knowledge here is key. I'm pretty sure she knew what the OWS movement is about and also the very well documented violence surrounding it at various sites. Did the copper know in a split second that she was pregnant? I very much doubt it. Was he justified in what he done? I don't know, I wasn't there! What I do know is that she knew the deal about the OWS protests, there is no way that she didn't and she knew the risks, with that knowledge she should not have put herself and her unborn child in to that situation. The coppers are doing what we all expect them to do, its been well documented and as I have said, it's not like Police heavy handedness is a new concept! You play with fire and you get burnt and people can't be shocked when they do get burnt.

reply to post by MrGrimm


You know the score, fight or flee, protest all you like, but you know what the Police are capable of and the tactics employed could well be aggressive. When you go up against the Police you know what to expect, it should not come as a shock, so yeah deal with it. I'm not saying stop, but don't be so shocked when you can't open your eyes from the CS spray. A quick tip with that, don't ever rub your eyes or use water if you do get sprayed by the way. Lean forward blink as much as you can and take deep breaths, that's if you can't get out of the area and face clean air by standing upright and eyes wide open as much as you can.

reply to post by SecretFace


You make some good points, but I'm sorry man.
To say that we need to just deal with police brutality, accept it as a way of life, and move on...
That is un-American, I will never accept one human being harming another for simply voicing their opinion.

It's one thing to say "That's how it is" but to accept "...how it is"

really think about what your trying to convince us to see.

you people realise that even if she wasnt touched, the stress of the situation could have caused the miscarriage.. if she cared that much about her babies future she should not have been there and sent others more willing, no one sends pregnant women to fight a war.

reply to post by SecretFace

So...what about the majority of people that use excuses to not stand up , speak their opinion ..because we're all too afraid ? You can't have your cake and eat it too , most of us have children and sacrifices to make ...I suppose everyone there should be considered sooo selfish , for speaking up and having a voice ???
This woman lost her child , and all we can do is "best man for himself" ...no we don't want "that person speaking out "...sooner or later , no one will be speaking out . Because we have to look after our reputation right?

Originally posted by choos
you people realise that even if she wasnt touched, the stress of the situation could have caused the miscarriage.. if she cared that much about her babies future she should not have been there and sent others more willing, no one sends pregnant women to fight a war.

100% true

still doesn't change the fact a woman was struck for acting non-violent at a protest.

It seems some people here wants the cops to charge the (formerly) pregnant homeless 19-year-old girl with murder since she decided to exercise her First Amendment rights by attending a protest.

I mean, exercising constitutional rights is evil!

I mean, what a fantastic country to live in where someone shouldn't exercise a basic human right because you might get beaten up by cops... what has America become? China? North Korea?

And the worst of it, I bet this kind of stuff happens (cops beating up pregnant women) in poor neighborhoods a lot more than we know about and it ain't being reported because the victims are poor. Now it's just reported because there were thousands of eye witnesses.

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by SecretFace

 

So...what about the majority of people that use excuses to not stand up , speak their opinion ..because we're all too afraid ? You can't have your cake and eat it too , most of us have children and sacrifices to make ...I suppose everyone there should be considered sooo selfish , for speaking up and having a voice ???
This woman lost her child , and all we can do is "best man for himself" ...no we don't want "that person speaking out "...sooner or later , no one will be speaking out . Because we have to look after our reputation right?

Yeah the majority of people have bills to pay and can't take time off work and as I have said, the OWS movement does not seem to stand for the working man, the biggest reason why it is failing, but that is for another topic.

I'm not saying don't stand up, don't voice your opinion, I'm saying expect a response, an aggressive response, because that is how it is. That is the reality. I'm sure there are parents at the OWS, I hope they are taking time out to make sure their children are looked after while they are at at OWS gathering, but I'm sure their children are not there. This is the key to this story. Most people are fully aware of what the Police are like and as such would not have their children there and I hope those that are parents, would not go if they could not get someone to look after their kid(s). This woman who was pregnant knew the risks and still put her and her unborn child in to that situation. I'm not saying stop protesting, stop fighting, but you know what to expect, so you can't moan when it happens! Sure protest about the violence if you wish and make it known to the world, but you can't not expect it. As a parent, you're number one priority should always be the immediate care of your child, born or unborn.