One Mega Watt E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful!

Originally posted by RING0
reply to post by yampa

Gauge all you like, I'm not claiming any credentials. But I don't have to be an engineer to look up tables proving you are wrong. That pipe must be at least 3" or 80mm?

You can read the pipe size from the photo, the end cap says 2 1/2 inches.
2.5 in = 63.5 millimeters

that is the od of the thread on that cap

Giuseppe Levi is clearly a supporter of E-Cat, according to the e-mail I received as a response to my own e-mail, in which I asked I said that we were discussing the E-Cat on an Internet forum, with people believing it was some kind of cold fusion and some people saying that it was a hoax, and I asked if he could say anything about it.

Dear sir,
you are free to think what ever you want but there are plenty of proofs that the ECAT works. There is also a good theory candidate already published from years. (Widom, Larsen, Shrivastava)
If somebody thinks that is a hoax, that's not my problem.
Best Regards,
G.L.

reply to post by ArMaP


G Levi would be a supporter wouldn't it.
But IMO it is not that hard to show a visible proof and quell all the doubts
and even preclude peer review/ All they need to do is.
set up one module on a bathroom scale. vent the generated steam.
Connect 2 energy meters, one for the resistor with an open throw switch
another energy meter for the RF / and or Accoustic signal.
Run the unit till stand alone is acheived
Note / show on video the weight differences on the scale in the stand alone mode

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Some musings on Ni-H fusion:

www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com...

Although it has been a while since I graduated with physics, Im very skeptical about this until other scientists replicate and duplicate this in the laboratory under controlled conditions with peer reviewed articles.

This.

I am not going to get my underwear in a bunch until this happens. Peer review is important in science, because it weeds out the snake oil salesmen from the true new breakthroughs in science.

If it is duplicated by other scientists, and found to be as advertised, well I'll be the first to shake the man's hand and say well done. Until then, no.

Originally posted by Darkrunner

This.

I am not going to get my underwear in a bunch until this happens. Peer review is important in science, because it weeds out the snake oil salesmen from the true new breakthroughs in science.

If it is duplicated by other scientists, and found to be as advertised, well I'll be the first to shake the man's hand and say well done. Until then, no.

That may be difficult as rossi has a proprietery ingredient.
Besides scientists will be wary of this tech for fear of losing their jobs.
I'm surprised since some did come to witness this supposedly pseudo science.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by yampa

 

Thanks for posting.
I do not wish to get into any thermodynamics / fluid mechanics tutorial here.
Besides that is not a bloomin 80 mm pipe. The ID I estimate is not more than 30 mm.
Now screw the whole set up. Is there any known figure of how much condensed water
was collected from the steam oulet of the HE and at what temp.

I don't know if you are trolling (I suspect you are trolling since you have quickly dropped your supposed proof of functional impossibility), or genuinely don't know the difference between a 30mm pipe and a 3 inch pipe. But I will demonstrate:




2600mm divided by 31 = 83mm

So, yes, that is almost certainly the kind of pipe you'd want use to transfer 675 kg of 115c steam an hour at 1 bar . It is a ~80mm pipe.

To hammer the point home, here are the heatsinks at the end of the steam pipe:

Originally posted by yampa

I don't know if you are trolling (I suspect you are trolling since you have quickly dropped your supposed proof of functional impossibility), or genuinely don't know the difference between a 30mm pipe and a 3 inch pipe. But I will demonstrate:
2600mm divided by 31 = 83mm
So, yes, that is almost certainly the kind of pipe you'd want use to transfer 675 kg of 115c steam an hour at 1 bar . It is a ~80mm pipe.
To hammer the point home, here are the heatsinks at the end of the steam pipe:

I have not dropped anything, only making things simpler to you.
Why have you purposely ignored the subsequent posts.
The OD of the thread on the cap of the oversize stop valve is 21/2 in.
So , so much for your 83 mm pipe, the less said the better.
Now once again how much condensed water was collected, from the steam outlet of
the condenser?
If this figure is not known, then sorry it doenst convince me of anything except that if he
has got a COP greater than unity, in the stand alone mode, he has still acheived something.

Rossi today stated that if at least ten thousand interested parties register with an intent to purchase, Rossi will consider selling the small 10Kw E-Cat units to individuals for testing or general use.

From Rossi's Blog;

edited,..
Andrea Rossi ,....
You are right, we are organizing this. BY THE WAY: WE COLLECT FROM NOW THE NAMES OF ALL THE PERSONS OR ENITITES INTERESTED TO BUY AN E-CAT OF 10 KW. IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE LIST, THE PERSONS IN THE WAITING LIST WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONFIRM OR NOT THEIR ORDER AT 400 EURO/THERMAL KW. DO NOT SEND MONEY, WE WILL ACCEPT THE ORDERS ONLY IF WE WILL REACH 10,000 NAMES IN THE WAITING LIST, COMBINING OUR LIST WITH THE WAITING LIST ORGANIZED BY OUR BROTHERS OF HYDROFUSION . WARM REGARDS, ANDREA ROSSI, LEONARDO CORP. (PRESIDENT)

Today's rate of exchange; 4000 euros = 5385.6000 US dollars, could be off by a zero,...

Mr Rossi is charging Full Steam Ahead with this project, this would be a huge amount of sales to the general public, this is truly an unusual and rare situation, either these "Mr. Fusion" like devices are about to flood into our lives, or another bothersome scam is about to come to an end.

Believers are saying, "Final proof is about to arrive!", while the disbelievers say, "The scam is getting bigger every day."

With a second company in Greece about to announce their own version of a Nickel Hydrogen reactor in two weeks, the ante is being upped and the result will be world changing if confirmed, but merely annoying if disproved

Mr. Rossi has my attention for sure, but world media attention has not been extensively focused on this unfolding story. The tipping point is nearing, but until the E-Cats are freed into the wild, speculation is the main commodity being generated, not heat.

Originally posted by RING0
Mr Rossi is charging Full Steam Ahead with this project,

And the process of backing away from his claims has started, he will not release it as he will not get 10,000 signatures!

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by yampa
So, yes, that is almost certainly the kind of pipe you'd want use to transfer 675 kg of 115c steam an hour at 1 bar .

The OD of the thread on the cap of the oversize stop valve is 21/2 in.
So , so much for your 83 mm pipe, the less said the better.

Okie, it is a ~60 mm pipe then. Twice your expert estimate. You could fit twice as many 30 mm pipes on that container.

edit: Question, what is the actual pressure inside the tube if 50 reactors are outputting 1bar regulated steam at 675kg an hour total?

To quote your earlier post:

"What doesnt add up is also the size of the insulated steam pipes and the size of atmospheric condensers. I dont see rhem carrying steam worth 20 kw let alone 479 kw."

You've made that point a couple of times, but now you're just dropping it? It would be a good proof of impossibility if you could back it up with numbers. If you could show us a calculation and estimates to prove it is not possible, that would be helpful. Remember there are two of those condensers.

Now once again how much condensed water was collected, from the steam outlet of
the condenser?
If this figure is not known, then sorry it doenst convince me of anything except that if he
has got a COP greater than unity, in the stand alone mode, he has still acheived something.

Surely you already know how much water was supposedly evaporated and how much was collected as unevaporated water if you have read the report?

675 litres vapourised an hour, then recondensed, and then pumped back into the large tanks. 5 litres collected as unevaporated water. It was a closed system with some minor topping-up of the large tanks to account for loss.



pdf here: www.nyteknik.se...
data here: www.nyteknik.se...

This might picture the unevaporated water container, connected to the steam pipe?:




The average temp for the steam is given as 104.5c, not 115c as I have stated before. The max was 112c.

Could you properly elaborate where and why you think these measurements are flawed, or not good indicators of energy production? It seems to me that making 675 kg of 105c steam travel several meters away from the boilers is a pretty robust energy measurement.

Something doesn't feel right with this, if he had invented what he say's he had all he need's to do is get all the press and prove it works then he would be rich and famous.
Nah the guy's a fraud just a hunch but nah..

Originally posted by yampa
Okie, it is a ~60 mm pipe then. Twice your expert estimate. You could fit twice as many 30 mm pipes on that container.

Wrong again. For your kind info pipe sizes are quoted by the internal bore.
so my estimate stands. The stop valve is oversize. The bore of the valve by my estimate is 40 mm.
So its a 40 mm valve.

You've made that point a couple of times, but now you're just dropping it? It would be a good proof of impossibility if you could back it up with numbers. If you could show us a calculation and estimates to prove it is not possible, that would be helpful. Remember there are two of those condensers.

Again my estimate stands. It doesnt matter if there are 2 condensers. What matters is the size of the main steam outlet pipe from the shipping container.

Surely you already know how much water was supposedly evaporated and how much was collected as unevaporated water if you have read the report?

675 litres vapourised an hour, then recondensed, and then pumped back into the large tanks. 5 litres collected as unevaporated water. It was a closed system with some minor topping-up of the large tanks to account for loss.

Supposedly 675 lit / hr, but not actually wrt to again the size of the main pipe.
So in other words the figure 675 lit / hr is vastly exaggerated.
As I said earlier i do not wish to do a tutorial on thermodynamis / or fluid mechanics here on ats.
You can look it up on approriate websites

NY technik El Engg is a quack, as I said earlier.

This might picture the unevaporated water container, connected to the steam pipe?:

Container looks empty. The steam drain pipe is used only at start for a very short while, to avoid water hammer.

The average temp for the steam is given as 104.5c, not 115c as I have stated before. The max was 112c.

Could you properly elaborate where and why you think these measurements are flawed, or not good indicators of energy production? It seems to me that making 675 kg of 105c steam travel several meters away from the boilers is a pretty robust energy measurement.

Temp is not an indicator if not accompanied by mass flow and the mass flow is vastly exaggerated.
Anyway you seem to be connected in some way with rossis commercial aspirations and i wish you luck

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by yampa
Okie, it is a ~60 mm pipe then. Twice your expert estimate. You could fit twice as many 30 mm pipes on that container.

Wrong again. For your kind info pipe sizes are quoted by the internal bore.
so my estimate stands. The stop valve is oversize. The bore of the valve by my estimate is 40 mm.
So its a 40 mm valve.
Temp is not an indicator if not accompanied by mass flow and the mass flow is vastly exaggerated.
Anyway you seem to be connected in some way with rossis commercial aspirations and i wish you luck

I am in no way connected to Rossi. I had never heard of him until a few weeks ago. It would be nice to be able to invest in something like the E-cat, but unfortunately I can barely afford the electricity bills I have to pay right now.
Rossi is not the reason why I believe in the viability of this device, I believe it is possible because I have actually bothered to read about the electromagnetic properties of nanoparticles.

Sorry to labour the point here - I am not claiming I know anything about pipes, since the most I've ever done is replace a water pump on my central heating. But you are now suggesting that the blue pipe internal diameter is 40mm (up from the previous 30mm), and it has a casing 10+mm thick?



The internal diameter of this pipe could be repeated approximately 60 times, is what you're saying?




As I said, I have never done pipe calculations before, but I would imagine you have already realised this should be factored - what would the pressure be in a 60mm pipe if it is fed with 52 steam inputs from the reactors, if they are outputting approx 13kg/h of steam? How does that affect the potential flow rate?

The amount of water that went through the external tanks was measured. I assume the flow rate would be the critical measurement for any buyer. The amount of water going in and coming out was supposedly 675kg/h. A water flow rate sensor would tell you this, it is a trivial measurement.

I've no idea who Brian Ahern is, but the Rossi fans seem very excited about this upcoming talk by Brian.


nextbigfuture.com...

"Brian Ahern received his PhD in material science from MIT, holds 26 patents and was a senior scientist for 17 years in research and development at USAF Rome Lab at Hanscom Air Force Base. Ahern was the U.S. Air Force’s expert on nano-materials. Ahern has discovered the LENR phenomenon is occurring on the nanoscale and involves a formerly misunderstood and rarely explored attribute of nano-magnetism."

"This will not be a big reveal of a new major power system. This is a presentation of scientific work which is accumulated understanding of the processes. He has replicated Arata and earlier Piantelli/Rossi work and other systems. Plus his work at Air force research with materials and nanomaterials."

Ahern states ” In 1995 we made a major and fundamental discovery regarding nano-material properties. This almost completely unknown to most technologists."

Brian explained this to Akito Takahashi working to replicate the LENR experiments of Yashiaki Arata in early 2009 and he succeeded immediately. Ahern has been funded for 2.5 years to replicate Arata and then push on towards Piantelli. Ahern has also been guiding George Miley’s group at UIUC on this nanotechnology, and the group seems to be enjoying a great deal of success in the month on October.

Ahern states “In the last 8 weeks I have been astounded by a superior nanotechnology that will capture the imagination of even the greatest foes of LENR. I believe all of LENR is just a new and unanticipated form of nanomagnetism.”

Originally posted by yampa

I am in no way connected to Rossi. I had never heard of him until a few weeks ago. It would be nice to be able to invest in something like the E-cat, but unfortunately I can barely afford the electricity bills I have to pay right now.
Rossi is not the reason why I believe in the viability of this device, I believe it is possible because I have actually bothered to read about the electromagnetic properties of nanoparticles.

Ah, ok you are just an interested person like me. Since you have pics of various stages, i was wondering if you were connected to rossi.

Sorry to labour the point here - I am not claiming I know anything about pipes, since the most I've ever done is replace a water pump on my central heating. But you are now suggesting that the blue pipe internal diameter is 40mm (up from the previous 30mm), and it has a casing 10+mm thick?

No the oversize v/v bore I estimate at 40 mm and the pipe internal bore estimated at 30 mm. You will notice that the corrugations on the container are trapezoidal. wall thickness could be 8 to 10 mm.

As I said, I have never done pipe calculations before, but I would imagine you have already realised this should be factored - what would the pressure be in a 60mm pipe if it is fed with 52 steam inputs from the reactors, if they are outputting approx 13kg/h of steam? How does that affect the potential flow rate?

Pipe is only a conduit and pr will depend on internal vol of the steam system and flow rate and I do not see
any pr vessel as such in the entire system. Higher pr will require smaller bore pipes for a given mass flow.
I wont be going into design calculations here..

The amount of water that went through the external tanks was measured. I assume the flow rate would be the critical measurement for any buyer. The amount of water going in and coming out was supposedly 675kg/h. A water flow rate sensor would tell you this, it is a trivial measurement.

Flow rate is a critical measurent, and the only accurate measurement for any buyer would be to
measure the rate of the condensed water. I wish I was present there to inspect as a surveyor.
SUPPOSEDLY 675kg / hr totally impossible imo.
Moreover the glaring flaw is factoring in the heat recovery from steam in the condenser.
The whole show is most likely a scam.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
Moreover the glaring flaw is factoring in the heat recovery from steam in the condenser.
The whole show is most likely a scam.

Here it is again, this killer punch which you will not spend five minutes explaining. I think we can handle it?

Perhaps you are too absorbed in the quantum physics of tomatoes and Billy Graham?

It is funny you are calling this man a fraud the day after he visited government officials at State House in Boston to talk about his device. A meeting also attended by representatives of Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Massachusetts and Northeastern University.

He seems to be much better at fraud than those claiming to have found 'zero point energy' and having overthrown general relativity in the process. I'd say, a different class of fraud altogether.

www.facebook.com...
www.tarrtalk.com...

Senator Bruce Tarr said on 22/11/11:

"Andrea Rossi, an engineer who has captured the attention of the scientific world with two successful tests of his “E-Cat” cold fusion reactor, arrived at the State House on Tuesday morning for two days of meetings with government officials and representatives of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the University of Massachusetts and Northeastern University.

Mr. Rossi’s reactor, if successfully proven and developed, has the potential to change the way the world deals with energy, and I’m pleased that he’s willing to discuss basing its production in Massachusetts."

Originally posted by yampa

Here it is again, this killer punch which you will not spend five minutes explaining. I think we can handle it?

Perhaps you are too absorbed in the quantum physics of tomatoes and Billy Graham?

I dont recall you commenting on either of my threads,
Lol Killer punch? You wont succeed.

It is funny you are calling this man a fraud the day after he visited government officials at State House in Boston to talk about his device. A meeting also attended by representatives of Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Massachusetts and Northeastern University.

Amazing synchronicity, isn't it. I have spoken to MITand all the leading unis of usa and the world over. Thank you very much.
Lol Govt. officials and senator bruce, wtf is going on here.. This is getting better all the time.

He seems to be much better at fraud than those claiming to have found 'zero point energy' and having overthrown general relativity in the process. I'd say, a different class of fraud altogether.

Prove that Im a fraudster. But b4 that chk with the tech transfer offices of los Alamos and the JPL. I dare you.
LOL, Anyway as the saying goes, it takes a thief to spot out a thief. Pun intended.

Mr. Rossi’s reactor, if successfully proven and developed, has the potential to change the way the world deals with energy, and I’m pleased that he’s willing to discuss basing its production in Massachusetts."

That "IF" will most likely not be realised

Andrea Rossi announces that the original "ecat.com" site is now approved and is the official site (again.)
Official E-CAT Website

Competitor Defkalion announced release of their own E-Cat like technology, with more information to be released in two weeks.

Rossi then says Defkalion has no functioning technology, that their announcement is actually result of Rossi misinformation trick designed to expose Defkalion's intent to steal Rossi's E-Cat technology.

Andrea Rossi Quote,
Look to what is going on around the Balcans: there are clowns saying they have a technology copied from us, actually they have just a moke up, waiting for the piece of info they need to make a real copy. They believed we would have been selling in October the small E-Cats, so announced they would have made a demo in october ( buying a model, disguising it as a copy made by them). But it was just a trap we made. Conclusion: from now on we will be more sealed than ever, and we will be open exclusively with our Customers.

Andrea Rossi says Defkalion will not have a working model until it can "procure" one of Rossi's to reverse engineer or use hidden inside one of their mock-ups to simulate a working device. Makes me wonder, what will the Defkalion people reveal in two weeks?

Senator Bruce Tarr, the Senate Minority Leader in the Massachusetts legislature has been talking with Andrea Rossi for the last two days in a public open manner, promoting the E-Cat as worth investigating and promoting to stimulate the States lagging economy.

ecatreport.com..., Reports that Rossi has signed a deal with the University of Bologna for the replication and independent tests of the energy catalyzer technology.

Overall interest in this story remains at a steady yet cautious level, Soap Opera Theatrics right out of a Tom Clancy thriller, but still no information that will confirm the unfolding drama.

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

I look forward to that as well, I am just not holding my breath since I do not think a legitimate sale will ever occur.

Can you stop filling every page of this informative and progressing thread with dozens of meaningless repetitions of 'I THINK THIS IS A FAKE!'. We understand that you think it's a fake. You are adding nothing.

This topic will remain interesting until it is properly debunked, and it will never be debunked by people behaving as you are.

A point about the reality of this customer or not: according to Rossi - the initial purchase of this reactor/s is paying for two years of proper, to-be-published research into the e-cat at the University of Bologna. Wouldn't the whole thing unravel very quickly if he is not able to fund the university? Do you not think the invested academics might publicly raise this issue asap to protect their reputation?

Or he will come up with some not so clever reason as to why it never happened and people like you will eat it up. When it happens let me know, until then he keeps promising proof and then delivers a timeline in the future for more proof without ever giving the initial proof promised.

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by ArMaP

 

I'd imagine he means all those academics that turned up to one display or another from Swedish Universities or the Italian academics involved.

I'm sure there are other prestigious academic people who have been present at one demo or another, and none of them (to my knowledge) are screaming about fraud...which isn't proof of anything i know, but at least it is evidence they have not detected a fraud.

In fact, these guys were present:

Hanno Essen, a theoretical physicist at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology and chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society, and Sven Kullander of Uppsala University, chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences Energy Committee.

Essen and Kullander gave the E-Cat a solid thumbs-up. It produced too much excess heat to have been originating from a chemical process, they wrote in their report, adding that, "The only alternative explanation is that there is some kind of a nuclear process that gives rise to the measured energy production."

And another from MIT:

"Basically, there's a new physical effect that I think was found in the lab more than 20 years ago by Fleischmann and Pons [University of Utah electrochemists who were later derided for their work on cold fusion]," said Peter Hagelstein, an MIT professor of electrical engineering and computer science and one of the most mainstream proponents of cold fusion research.

"It was not accepted by the scientific community. It's been laughed at and criticized. However, over the years the effect has continued to be seen."

Source

And this guy too (from NASA no less, or CIA)

Dennis M. Bushnell, Chief Scientist at NASA Langley Research Center, described LENR as a "promising" technology and praised the work of Rossi and Focardi.

Source

These are just a few. Admittedly they were not allowed to inspect the device closely, so is still up in the air of course, but even so, they are not crying foul about it.

edit on 20/11/2011 by spikey because: Added info

So if they were not allowed to inspect the device how can they say it works? You also know that the people you listed have not all even seen the device in person right? I would absolutely love for this to be true, it simply does not make sense though. When it is allowed to be tested and inspected with a NDA or whatever Rossi wants and is confirmed by a neutral respected party let me know. Heresay of people that have never seen the machine let alone inspect it doesn't prove much beyond your fanaticism.