One Mega Watt E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful!

Let me try and bring some new thinking to the question I see over and over here and on the web.

In its various forms it usually follows "If it was real he would have it independently verified blah blah blah"

Rossi understand the simple truth that the capitalistic / commercial system is the best way to see his units reach the mas market.


Lets look at the two choices he has:

-----Peer review, scientific test route-----

Rossi lets his units be independently tested poked and prodded (and dont forget the obvious potential the surreptitious dissemination of his trade secrets by intent or mistake).

The units pass after how many months or years.

What does Rossi get?

1) A piece of paper and published articles indicating that it works.


-------The commercial customer route-------------

Rossi, demonstrates the unit to a potential client, and if it works, the client buys the unit.

What does Rossi get?

1) Money

2) Penetration into the marketplace and an immediate history of use is begun.

3) Proof comes automatically with the existing units working in a commercial location.


If you had two inventors with the same invention, one has a paper from a third party saying it works and a prototype, and the other inventor has no paper, buy has a unit already purchased by a customer and working at a that customers location.

Who wins?

Obviously.

Rossi knows it works, and he doesn't need to prove it to any of you....just the customer...which he did and they bought it.

(National Instruments bought it)

Oops... did I let that slip.

reply to post by Areyoupeopleinsane


Why not follow the scientific test route and then the commercial customer route?

That way he would get a piece of paper and published articles indicating that it works and money, penetration into the marketplace and an immediate history of use is begun, and proof that comes automatically with the existing units working in a commercial location.

Wouldn't it be easier for him to get a patent that way?

As things are, if the customer was National Instruments, have they signed any thing that prevents them from analysing the E-Cat, making their own version and get a patent?

If that's what they were looking for then they wouldn't mind getting a 0.5 MW instead of 1 MW test result, because they only wanted to see if it worked, even if not really as advertised.

I guess that, as usual, time will tell.

National Instruments signs to do E-Cat controls

Today, Andrea Rossi signed an agreement with National Instruments to have them make all of the instrumentation for the E-Cat cold fusion plants, which began to be sold commercially on October 28 with the first 1 MW plant successfully tested in Bologna.

By Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News

Today, Leonardo Corporation, led by Andrea Rossi, inventor and developer of the one-megawatt cold fusion E-Cat plant, signed an agreement with National Instruments (NI), to have them make all the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants, which began commercial sales on October 28, following the successful test in Bologna, Italy of the first 1 MW heat plant to the first customer.

According to Rossi, NI will be creating the controls to monitor and regulate this process.

He said that their stipulation for the agreement is that all the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants have "by National Instruments" and logo on the instrumentation panels.

According to this, they are not the customer, it's exactly the opposite.

Stefano Concezzi, who serves as NI's Director of Science and Big Physics Segment, told me that NI does not comment on contracts made with customers, unless the customer requests a press release; but he could confirm that Andrea Rossi is a customer.

On November 10, 2011 4:39 PM [MST], regarding the above story, I received the following from Trisha McDonell | Corporate PR Manager | National Instruments.

     Subject: Re: final Re: contact info for E-Cat / NI contract

     Thank you Sterling for allowing us to review. We approve the text, especially the National
     Instruments portion of the story that includes Stefano's quote and information.

     Best regards
     Trisha

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

Which is part of the deal breaker for me - if he is producing steam as claimed, then all the has to do is connect up a turbine & generator to the steam output, and hey presto - electricity.

True. Though at present, his steam is low quality at atmos pr. To run decent type turbines you will need pressures in the range of 10 Bar and above and corrspondingly high mass flow rates to sustain lets say a 500 Kw electrical load.
Needless to say e cat has a long way to go b4 this is realised

Why not just link them in series?

Originally posted by ArMaP

Wouldn't it be easier for him to get a patent that way?

As things are, if the customer was National Instruments, have they signed any thing that prevents them from analysing the E-Cat, making their own version and get a patent?

If that's what they were looking for then they wouldn't mind getting a 0.5 MW instead of 1 MW test result, because they only wanted to see if it worked, even if not really as advertised.

I guess that, as usual, time will tell.

Yes time will tell, although at this stage goofy Allan may have a vested interest and is not a
credible source of info.
Now assuming national inst. bought this unit to heat up their swimming pool, they cannot
patent it, since it is a prior art in Italy already.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

Which is part of the deal breaker for me - if he is producing steam as claimed, then all the has to do is connect up a turbine & generator to the steam output, and hey presto - electricity.

True. Though at present, his steam is low quality at atmos pr. To run decent type turbines you will need pressures in the range of 10 Bar and above and corrspondingly high mass flow rates to sustain lets say a 500 Kw electrical load.
Needless to say e cat has a long way to go b4 this is realised

Linking them in series will neither increase the Pr. nor the Flow Rate.

Why not just link them in series?

Originally posted by RING0
eCat Customer Revealed: US National Instruments Bought The 1MW Fusion Plant

Friday, November 11, 2011

Today we name Global US Firm National Instruments As Rossi's Customer.

freeenergytruth.blogspot.com...

This will be the key to answering the question,.. is the device real?

No, neither is the silly claim made in this post . National instruments has NOT bought a e-cat....

Your linked webpage has been removed....

reply to post by Angelic Resurrection


If they are generating steam, then linking them in series should enable the steam to be hotter - a hotter input, receiving heat from the next reactor becomes hotter again.

Neither you nor I know the intricate details - however I do recall that you can pressurise water to keep it from actually becoming steam - and since this is using a heat exchange somewhere I can't see any reason why not - they can even run low pressure water through the reactor, if it requires it, and hen heat exchange/heat pump to high pressure water. If they could do it for wrought iron locomotive boilers 150 years ago, and virtually every car in the last 75 years, then why is is a problem for this hot shot (sic)??

This smacks of making excuses, not of an actual engineering problem - it's just another thing that doesn't add up.

Originally posted by charlyv
The point was, there was work being done. Watts implies work.

Watts implies work or energy per unit time.

The system was consuming 475 KW per hr,

A nonsense unit jumbalaya. 475 KW for one hour is 475 KWH or 1.710.000.000 joules of energy. 475KW ~= 637 horsepower.

The original reply to this was to a poster who claimed that no meaningful work was being done, which was wrong.

What is "meaningful work"? Perhaps it needs to proselytize more efficiently?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Angelic Resurrection

 

If they are generating steam, then linking them in series should enable the steam to be hotter - a hotter input, receiving heat from the next reactor becomes hotter again.

Neither you nor I know the intricate details - however I do recall that you can pressurise water to keep it from actually becoming steam - and since this is using a heat exchange somewhere I can't see any reason why not - they can even run low pressure water through the reactor, if it requires it, and hen heat exchange/heat pump to high pressure water. If they could do it for wrought iron locomotive boilers 150 years ago, and virtually every car in the last 75 years, then why is is a problem for this hot shot (sic)??

This smacks of making excuses, not of an actual engineering problem - it's just another thing that doesn't add up.

True we do not know the details, but the system, from whatever source of energy is suitable to only boil the waterand connected in IIel is putting out steam at roughly 100 deg C . Engineering hurdles can be overcome.
What doesnt add up is also the size of the insulated steam pipes and the size of atmospheric condensers .
I dont see rhem carrying steam worth 20 kw let alone 479 kw.
Trust me I've been a chief engineer of a steamship, that was using 62 bar superheated steam at 550 deg c from 2 boilers driving 38500 bhp propulsion turbines and a 1500 kw turbo alternator.

Looks like Andrea Rossi launched a new web site on 11-11-11

E-Cat Technology by Andrea Rossi of Leonardo Corporation

I can't tell if it is legitimate , site has Leonardo Corporation branding all over it, they are promoting E cat products with release dates for small home units. If he is a fraud, he's flaunting it in everyone's faces! Fascinating story, I can't wait to see how all this plays out.

National Instruments NI has agreed to instrument the setup to prove the claims. NI is a very high level instrumentaion company with a respectable name if ti works they will prove it if it doesent they will prove it if it's somewhere inbetween they will prove it. I have been working with NI products for over 20 years.

reply to post by RING0


The WHOIS data for that site is interesting.

Domain name: leonardo-ecat.com

Registrant Contact:
Leonardo Corporation
Andrea Rossi ()

Fax:
116 South River Road
Bedford, NH 03110
US

Administrative Contact:
PES Network, Inc
Sterling Allan ***********@pureenergysystems.com)
+1.8014071292
Fax: +1.8018808322
PO Box 429
Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429
US

Technical Contact:
PES Network, Inc
Sterling Allan ***********@pureenergysystems.com)
+1.8014071292
Fax: +1.8018808322
PO Box 429
Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429
US

It does say "Page by Hank Mills and Sterling Allan, PES Network, Inc." on most pages.

I guess that PES Network guy is offering to do marketing for him. Some of the content is quite good technically. The design does all look a bit crankish though (much like a lot of that PES Network stuff).

Some pretty nice renderings of a speculative 5 kW heater here:
www.leonardo-ecat.com...

reply to post by ArMaP


Lol. The whois data says it all in a nuttyshell.
Rossis bad taste and his downfall.
Timbre

Originally posted by mikellmikell
National Instruments NI has agreed to instrument the setup to prove the claims. NI is a very high level instrumentaion company with a respectable name if ti works they will prove it if it doesent they will prove it if it's somewhere inbetween they will prove it. I have been working with NI products for over 20 years.

So after 20 years exp with NI, you really believe that you need anything more than very basic
instrumentation to evaluate the e cat, input / output?

reply to post by spoor


Exactly my friend, exactly, a 500k generator clearly visible. The camera panned right by it. Electric lines running right out of it going somewhere...You absolutely cannot get energy for free. It would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. HOAX HOAX HOAX!!!

Nowhere in this article does it say that NI bought an E-Cat.

www.freerepublic.com...

What it says is that Rossi's company bought some NI test equipment. Thats it. Nothing more. This con artist is using his purchase of test equipment as somehow validating the fake device he is hawking. He is intentionally hyping up a relationship with NI that doesnt really exist.

Originally posted by unsteadystate
reply to post by spoor

 

Exactly my friend, exactly, a 500k generator clearly visible. The camera panned right by it. Electric lines running right out of it going somewhere...You absolutely cannot get energy for free. It would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. HOAX HOAX HOAX!!!

E cat may well be a hoax, although the 2nd law of thermodynamics has been broken on numerois occasions starting with tesla or maybe even b4 tesla.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection
reply to post by ArMaP

 

Lol. The whois data says it all in a nuttyshell.
Rossis bad taste and his downfall.
Timbre

This is supposedly a message from Andrea Rossi to Sterling Allan from PES Network, Inc re: those 'official' websites:

finance.groups.yahoo.com...

"----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Rossi - Leonardo Corp."
To: "Sterling Allan"
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: temporary notice posted


Sterling, please: all the website is not approved, please take out
from the net all the website. I have to review all of it, I continue
to receive a lot of troubles from it, instead of making my work I have
to handle all the very bad comments I am receiving! I do not publish
on the blog these comments, because I want not to polemize and expose
you, but I am totally exasperated. Take immediately all the website
out of the net, all of it is not approved!
I looked at it superficially when I said that was good, because I had
not time to read throughly and because I did not realize the very bad
problems it was going to raise. Please take it off!
I am sorry, I know you worked with honesty and enthusiasm, but it has
been my mistakem not yours, now please take it all off the net!
Warmest Regards,
Andrea"

I suspect the National Instruments story was also some kind of conflation by one of these eccentric cold fusion fanatics. Some of these cold fusioners don't seem greatly in touch with reality. The same could be said for some of the supposed skeptics.

Originally posted by unsteadystate
reply to post by spoor

 

Exactly my friend, exactly, a 500k generator clearly visible. The camera panned right by it. Electric lines running right out of it going somewhere...You absolutely cannot get energy for free. It would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

The generator issue has been well covered here. The claim is that it is needed to start the reaction, provide cooling, control of the system etc. The system could not be booted without a large initial input and no domestic power supply would suffice. You could not safely run that plant without some kind of constant external control, and all this external power was supposedly factored into the final 470kW figure.

As for your invocation of thermodynamics - all those (strictly mathematical) laws require a closed system, so what are you closing the system around? What are you factoring out as potential sources for energy input? Nuclear? Quantum electrical? What about the potential for previously untapped sources of heat generation?

Remember that scientific models are supposed to explain observed phenomena. The goal is not to define which new data are politically acceptable. And the aim should certainly not be to have people naively spouting heuristics as if they were god given laws.