"Orrin Hatch: The 'Poor' Should Do More To Shrink Debt, Not The Rich"

Originally posted by jhn7537
Best way to help fix the national debt, CUT THE MILITARY SPENDING....Take a look at what we spend and then look at the next closest military budget....If we spent what China spends imagine what we could do with the other $550 billion?
2009 figures...The United States military budget his increased each year, but I'm showing figures from 2009 which i found easy...
List of countries by military expenditures...
1. USA- $687 billion
2. China- $114 billion
3. France- $61 billion
4. UK- $57 billion
5. Russia- $52 billion
6. Japan- $51 billion
7. Germany- $47 billion
8. Saudi Arabia- $43 billion
9. Italy- $38 billion
10. India- $34 billion

If you look at the whole list and start adding you will see that the United States spends more in one year than the next 22 countries combined (2-23)....Why are we spending so much on our military? This is where we need to trim the fat at, we need to stop being the WORLD POLICE and we need to handle our own issues back home....

edit on 8-7-2011 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

Sadly my friend, our spending is so out of control, that even if we ELIMINATED our military we would still run a $1 trillion deficit. Our elected officials, of both parties, have failed the public so badly that there are easy solutions any longer. All are painful. Of US federal spending, 60% is on entitlements, and we borrow 42% of our overall spending. Additionally, the entire social security surplus account has been spent, and is no full of IOU's from the US Treasury. So guess what? When social security needs that money, the US Treasury has to go borrow even more money through the bond market. In other words, our debt and deficit are even worse than the publicly reported numbers.

Hahaha, you can't make this stuff up. We are so screwed. Those still plugged in are being psychologically herded into socio-economic class warfare. Brilliant propaganda.

Anyways, this made me think of a Louis CK bit

Originally posted by D377MC

It's a sad world we live in. In an ideal world, idiots like Orrin Hatch would be lined up against the wall and shot, and good riddance to the fool.

Your ideal world is one where people are lined up and shot for being an idiot? wow, I would say I'm shocked but the truth is, I have found that just about anyone who thinks we need government thinks this way.

reply to post by inforeal


Just another sub-human pig.

It is now time to overthrow the whole, damned thing. We can no longer afford to sit back and vote in rigged elections every couple of years.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by D377MC

It's a sad world we live in. In an ideal world, idiots like Orrin Hatch would be lined up against the wall and shot, and good riddance to the fool.

Weather you agree or disagree with someone, a sentiment like this is unacceptable in any free society. I sincerely hope this member is kidding. Either way, with the advocating of violence against someone for voicing their opinion, I see this comment being removed for violation of ATS terms very quickly. To this member, I would strongly suggest some introspect as to why you are so angry to advocate this type of violence against a man even the most liberal members of Congress agree is a very nice and caring man.

People who are working low-paying or minimum wage jobs or who don’t have a job and qualify for subsidies because they can't afford healthcare cannot “dig deeper”.
People who are working two jobs to meet the rent and cost of living increases cannot “dig deeper”.
Single mothers working two jobs while attending weekend nursing classes cannot “dig deeper”.

'Nice, caring' men should know this. Wake the hell up will you?

We have a President who approves torture and has a list of Americans to assassinate, and we are governed by individuals who are responsible for six illegal wars and millions of deaths, and yet, somehow, it is a terrible thing to suggest they need some of their own medicine?

Spare me your hypocrisy please.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by D377MC

It's a sad world we live in. In an ideal world, idiots like Orrin Hatch would be lined up against the wall and shot, and good riddance to the fool.

Your ideal world is one where people are lined up and shot for being an idiot? wow, I would say I'm shocked but the truth is, I have found that just about anyone who thinks we need government thinks this way.

Don't play ignorant for the sake of it please. Or google 'hyperbole' if you weren't.

We are of course talking about someone who took 78 grand in contributions from big oil:

$7,000 from Anadarko Petroleum (Major Oil Company in the Gulf)
$5,000 from BP America (Gave $1,000 back)
$9,000 from Chevron
$5,000 from ConocoPhilips
$14,000 from Exxon (Gave $1,000 back)
$9,000 from Halliburton (Gave $1,000 back)
$6,000 from Marathon Oil
$5500 from Occidental Petroleum
$3,000 from Shell Oil
$2,000 From Society of Gasoline Marketers
$5,000 From Tesoro
$5,000 from Valero Energy (Oil Refineries)
$2,000 from Denbury Resources
$1,000 from IPA Wildcatters

He then proceeded to vote against a tax on windfall profits for big oil companies, reducing the foreign tax credit on importing oil, allowing big oil companies tax credits for developing alternative energy, prohibiting "price gouging", prosecuting market manipulation and putting some restraints on the commodity exchanges.
(source:www.votesmart.org...)

Maybe he should put his money were his mouth is. Oh sorry, he's not poor enough....

Originally posted by D377MC

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by D377MC

It's a sad world we live in. In an ideal world, idiots like Orrin Hatch would be lined up against the wall and shot, and good riddance to the fool.

Weather you agree or disagree with someone, a sentiment like this is unacceptable in any free society. I sincerely hope this member is kidding. Either way, with the advocating of violence against someone for voicing their opinion, I see this comment being removed for violation of ATS terms very quickly. To this member, I would strongly suggest some introspect as to why you are so angry to advocate this type of violence against a man even the most liberal members of Congress agree is a very nice and caring man.

People who are working low-paying or minimum wage jobs or who don’t have a job and qualify for subsidies because they can't afford healthcare cannot “dig deeper”.
People who are working two jobs to meet the rent and cost of living increases cannot “dig deeper”.
Single mothers working two jobs while attending weekend nursing classes cannot “dig deeper”.

'Nice, caring' men should know this. Wake the hell up will you?

We have a President who approves torture and has a list of Americans to assassinate, and we are governed by individuals who are responsible for six illegal wars and millions of deaths, and yet, somehow, it is really naughty and terrible to suggest they need some of their own medicine?

Spare me your hypocrisy please.

My friend, the person you described in the post above is not included in Orrin Hatch's commentary. His comment was about how 51% of households pay ZERO income tax, and that a family of 4 making $80,000 is now considered 'poor' and qualifies for subsidies under Obamacare. I understand your frustration to a certain extent, but the idea that you would advocate the murder of a man because he thinks some portion of that 51% pay any income tax is not acceptable rhetoric in a free society. Any opinion is of course free and acceptable, with the exception of calling for someone being killed as you just did. Its actually criminal if you did anything to pursue it. The same commentary made about any President would result in a visit from the Secret Service. So, again, while frustrated with your own position in life, the sentiment of killing Orrin Hatch for his commentary is plain wrong. Plenty of people in your same position actually agree with him, and many don't. But the idea of murder is plain wrong.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by D377MC

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by D377MC

It's a sad world we live in. In an ideal world, idiots like Orrin Hatch would be lined up against the wall and shot, and good riddance to the fool.

Weather you agree or disagree with someone, a sentiment like this is unacceptable in any free society. I sincerely hope this member is kidding. Either way, with the advocating of violence against someone for voicing their opinion, I see this comment being removed for violation of ATS terms very quickly. To this member, I would strongly suggest some introspect as to why you are so angry to advocate this type of violence against a man even the most liberal members of Congress agree is a very nice and caring man.

People who are working low-paying or minimum wage jobs or who don’t have a job and qualify for subsidies because they can't afford healthcare cannot “dig deeper”.
People who are working two jobs to meet the rent and cost of living increases cannot “dig deeper”.
Single mothers working two jobs while attending weekend nursing classes cannot “dig deeper”.

'Nice, caring' men should know this. Wake the hell up will you?

We have a President who approves torture and has a list of Americans to assassinate, and we are governed by individuals who are responsible for six illegal wars and millions of deaths, and yet, somehow, it is really naughty and terrible to suggest they need some of their own medicine?

Spare me your hypocrisy please.

My friend, the person you described in the post above is not included in Orrin Hatch's commentary. His comment was about how 51% of households pay ZERO income tax, and that a family of 4 making $80,000 is now considered 'poor' and qualifies for subsidies under Obamacare. I understand your frustration to a certain extent, but the idea that you would advocate the murder of a man because he thinks some portion of that 51% pay any income tax is not acceptable rhetoric in a free society. Any opinion is of course free and acceptable, with the exception of calling for someone being killed as you just did. Its actually criminal if you did anything to pursue it. The same commentary made about any President would result in a visit from the Secret Service. So, again, while frustrated with your own position in life, the sentiment of killing Orrin Hatch for his commentary is plain wrong. Plenty of people in your same position actually agree with him, and many don't. But the idea of murder is plain wrong.

That was hyperbole for the sake of provocation, as personally I have never willingly harmed another human being. Further, I am not 'frustrated by my own position in life' as you suggest, I have never lacked anything, though that does nothing to placate the anger and frustration I feel for those who do.

Yes, the idea of murder is just plain wrong, but the next generation of Americans might have to be forgiven for believing it is acceptable, as after all, it is now formal governement policy. If asked why they thought it was ok to kill someone, they can simply answer they took example from our governement.

The system of taxes we now have are very unfair. approximately 47% of the people in this country pay no taxes and a lot of them get money from the government. The top wage earners pay a disproportional high tax rate. We can't keep making the top half keep paying more for the bottom half. The whole system is wealth redistribution and where is that defined in our Constitution. We need a flat tax, your taxed on what you consume!

reply to post by joyride0187


Huffington post pretty much says it all. You cant trust them anymore then you can trust the so called news channels which I beleive are more politaca,l they sure really dont talk about news that much. WAKE UP AMERICA !!!!!

Originally posted by fusionman
The system of taxes we now have are very unfair. approximately 47% of the people in this country pay no taxes and a lot of them get money from the government. The top wage earners pay a disproportional high tax rate. We can't keep making the top half keep paying more for the bottom half. The whole system is wealth redistribution and where is that defined in our Constitution. We need a flat tax, your taxed on what you consume!

The 47% carry the day. We actually do not need to pay any taxes at all.

reply to post by johnny2127


I agree that the situation that is upon us is extremely scary, by 2020, roughly 92% of our yearly federal budget will be spent on mandatory programs like social security, medicaid, medicare....That leaves 8% to cover all our military spending, discretionary spending, and paying off the interest on the money we owe to other countries.....If we stay on the same pace we are now, by 2040, we are going to be roughly 56 trillion in debt which will likely create a situation where other countries wont loan money to us becasue they will stop believing in us......How do you fix a complete mess? I dont think there is a easy situation, but to solve the looming Social security issue once all the baby boomers retire we should raise the age of when you can get social security...When they set the age at 65 the life expectancy was 62 years, now people are living past 80 and it needs to be raised to counter this....

All I see here is whiny babies. My wife and I make 65K combined so I am not poverty level but I am a far cry from rich and barely middle class and it IS up to us there is more of us! Most of the rich earned their money, in America we can earn our affluence and as much as "they" are screwing us we still have the capabilities to make our own way.


Just because you are not creative and are not that intelligent does not mean "they" are keeping you down. Get off your damn ass and do something. Self responsibility people, you preach it, but you dare not live by it....

And ponder this. The rich want us to hate and fear them because it keeps us from wanting to be rich. If we hate and distrust affluence then why would we want to attain it? Doesn't make much sense.

reply to post by gnosis111


Why do you think the regulation on business is so heavy? It keeps the little guy squashed. The big players have got the dime to hire attorneys and lobbyists to manipulate the laws.
Look a Obama care. The big guys get the wavers, but the little guys are going to get ran out of business. You can be as smart as you want to be, just don't think they won't put you in your place if the whim hits them.

Originally posted by gnosis111
All I see here is whiny babies. My wife and I make 65K combined so I am not poverty level but I am a far cry from rich and barely middle class and it IS up to us there is more of us! Most of the rich earned their money, in America we can earn our affluence and as much as "they" are screwing us we still have the capabilities to make our own way.


Just because you are not creative and are not that intelligent does not mean "they" are keeping you down. Get off your damn ass and do something. Self responsibility people, you preach it, but you dare not live by it....

And ponder this. The rich want us to hate and fear them because it keeps us from wanting to be rich. If we hate and distrust affluence then why would we want to attain it? Doesn't make much sense.

Should I buy a gun and some explosives and start killing some rich people? Is that the kind of action you are talking about? Or how about standing outside their office all day protesting while they just stare at us and sneak out the back to their mansions. The rich control the jobs, food and fuel so please, tell me what little old hair stylist can do? Oh I know, maybe write a letter to our governors...

Wow....you guys really are controlled and don't want to take any control of your own. I gotta hand it to the elite, they won when it comes to you two. Oh I am starting my own business, have no college ed, am a felon, and have no real capital. I am not borrowing any money from any institution nor family. But, I thought AHEAD of time and saved 6 months of my salary to get going. I have so many set backs, but I keep going, you guys are quitters, whiners, and there really is no place for you....you don't want to DO, you want to HAVE. Sad, sad, sad.

reply to post by zero1020


Why do people expect everything to be equal in America when it comes to work and income??? Are we trying to create a socialist country here? If you're good at what you do you will be taken care of...FACT........We live in the land of opportunity, that statement there is true, I came from a poor family, had my struggles through HS to my late teens/early twenties, but I got my act together, got into college (paid for college myself), and landed a great sales job where I make a very comfortable income....My story isn't some 1 in a million type story, if I can do it, anyone can do it.....People today expect to be given everything. Sometimes you have to go after what you want, it may be tough, but after everythings said and done, its definitely worth it....

reply to post by jhn7537


Commendable, this is what I like to read! Good for you sir!

Originally posted by dalemcfad
Shoulder the burden? This pisses me off. I guess next time I'm at the pump filling up my beat up 10 year old vehicle with my 4 hungry kids in the back (didn't get the memo on population control) and some guy in his beemer pulls up behind me I will just run right over and give the dude my last 20 bucks to help him out and "shoulder the burden"


There, I feel much better now.

peace

WHY DON"T ALL OF YOU READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
loveforlife.com.au...

The Promissory Note To Pay Our Debts
HJR-192 of June 5, 1933 is the promissory note (the promise of Abraham) the
government issued to balance the exchange to credit the people. The Promissory note is on
the debit side of the United States Governments ledger, which was a debited from their
credit, created by the Executive Order of April 5, 1933 when they took the gold out of
circulation. Public Policy is rooted in HJR-192 and is Grace that creates our exemption.
This is your temporal saving grace. Under grace, the law falls away to create a more perfect
contract. Public Policy removed the people's liability to make all payments by making a
contract null if it required the payment to be in substance, because the people didn't have
any money to pay with. All that must be done now is to discharge the liability. Pay and
discharge are similar words but the principles are as different as Old and New Testaments.
The word "pay" is equated with gold and silver, or something of substance like a first-born
lamb, which requires tangible work to be invested in it to remove the liability because an
execution must occur. The word "Discharge" is equated with paper, or even more basic,
simple credits and debits, that exist on paper only, like the slate held by the agents/angels
of heaven that get swiped clean. You cannot pay a bill with a bill and you cannot pay a debt
with a debt. What HJR-192 did was, remove the liability of an obligor (someone obligated to
pay a debt) by making it against Public Policy to pay debts. All that needs to be done now is
discharge the debit with an appropriate credit "dollar for dollar." Debt must be discharged
dollar for dollar in the same sense, as sin was discharged on the Cross. The moment a debt
exists, it must be written off. The catch is, we can't write off the debt because we are not in
possession of the account in deficit; our fiduciary agent is in possession of the account so
we must provide him with the tax return (by the return of the original offer) so the fiduciary
can discharge the liability through their internal revenue service (the bookkeeper). Most feel
that when the money was taken out of society, the people became the slaves, this is not
true, the people were freed from every obligation that society could create thus freeing the
people from any obligation which they may incur simply because we cannot pay a debt. Ask
yourself the question, What are you charging me with? And how do you expect Me to pay?
Simply said, there is no money, plain and simple for me to make the payment with and on
top of that, if I were to pay, who is paying Me to pay that guy and who's paying that guy and
so on... Public Policy is the supercedious bond because it limits our liability to pay. It is the
more perfect contract because it operates on grace to pay our debts after we have done all
that we can. We go as far as we can to fulfill the obligation (acceptance and tax return) and
after we have done all we can, mercy and grace kick in being our exemption to make the
payment. Grace creates our exemption in the industrial society so long as we accept the
charge.

WE OWE NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get it straight, take your "birth certificate" and write in RED INK on the front, NULL and VOID. Send IT and an "Ecclesiastical Deed Poll" to the U.S. Treasury, Make out a "bill of exchange" and demand the "account number" created from your birth certificate. Once you have the number, you "Accept for Value" and "Return for Discharge" all your bills to the Treasury Dept. and they MUST settle the debt. Your birth created an account that they are using UNTIL YOU CLAIM IT!!!!!!!! Just like taxes, it goes into a "slush fund" and if no one claims it at the end of the year, the IRS asks the government if they can keep it!! And guess what, WE ARE SO STUPID WE FELL FOR IT!!!

Yes, I have done most of this, it works, you get some people who do not know what you are talking about, but more are catching on!!

If we all came together and did this, our country would be OURS again. The Elite would be out of business. ALL RESOURCES belong TO the PEOPLE!! Not the Elite.