"Orrin Hatch: The 'Poor' Should Do More To Shrink Debt, Not The Rich"

Originally posted by jhn7537

Jobs are available.....I could leave my job today and have another great job by next week

You sad you're in marketing? Recession-proof. Not everyone can have recession-proof careers, the country wouldn't function.

....If you are good at your profession you can easily find work today....

Say it one more time and it might even become true.

I dont buy what you're selling one bit.....

And here I thought I was going to have to define ignorance for you, but now I realize it's pointless. Ignorance is clearly your lifeblood. If you ignore reality, everything will be A-OKAY!

A lot of people in america are lazy, they don't take the necessary steps to gain employment and ulitmately end up relying on programs that should be eliminated like welfare....

Yea I'm sick of those lazy people, always working 14 hour days to feed their large family that they were supporting fine before banks decided their 250% housing markup was just not enough to keep them in the multiple trillions in annual revenue. Damn those lazy people trying to feed their families... clearly banks are the useful ones here... duh! Why should we expect them to do anything? All they do is suck money out of circulation so it can collect in a vault overseas and benefit those who couldn't spend all the money they had if they tried. They've been such a productive addition to our economy; not ruining anything! What's clearly ruining things is these lazy people who were struggling to get from paycheck to paycheck before the economy started going downhill, and now they're jobless and nobody in their area is hiring for their profession... (and yes, this is the situation in many areas and fields, whether or not your idiotic enough to blatantly ignore it and say it's not true is irrelevant; reality is not bullied by your ignorant tirade)

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by D377MC
It's quite difficult for you isn't it? You seem to be having a hard time. Hyperbole is not humor. Further, it has nothing to do with 'killing someone for an opinion', that is your own deduction in your own private conversation..

I know exactly what it means, I have no difficultly with english.

The opinions we are graced with serve either to prepare or to justify the policies that are destroying this country. Who cares what he says? He's a fool. I care what he does, because it is plain obvious from his connections, the contributions he receives from large corporations and his voting record that he is part of the problem.

Here in lies the rub, you think government is the solution, I have no such illusion. Every one in office is a criminal and by your reasoning, should be "lined up and shot".

When as a US senator you consistently decide and vote in favor of corporations (check his involvement in the BP spill ), who incidentally are contributing thousands to your office, to the detriment of the people whom you are meant to represent then you are a traitor, and throughout human history traitors have been hung.

Yes. violence has always been the answer, Why wasnt wilson hung? roosevelt, nixon, jackson? You have a god like faith in government it seems.
And really, the environmentalists are as much to blame for the BP spill as anyone in office

We stopped that in the 1990's, and look at the result...it has become a prerequisite to political life.

You seriously expect me to believe that politicians were different in the 80's? you honestly think i was born yesterday?

If you want to believe that killing people is a solution you go right ahead and think that

edit on 9-7-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)

That proves my point, you are having your own private conversation. Where exactly did I say I thought governement was the solution? Now, if you do understand hyperbole, and can accept I was exaggerating, surely you understand that there is no solution insofar as criminals get away with their crimes day in and day out.

Now try a couple for treason and hang them. You won't have any trouble doing that and remaining within the parameters of the law either. The death penalty exists for a reason, lets start applying it to those who really deserve it.

How do you see the others behaving after that? Buisness as usual? Hang a couple more, I guarantee you will get results pretty quickly.

As they say in Italian, 'A male estremo, estremo rimedio.'

Originally posted by NuroSlam

1. The banks today exist because the GOVERNMENT allows it. So end the Fed
2. The corporations are GOVERNMENT GRANTED MONOPOLIES. So stop patents, copyrights and all the other nonsense that allows corporations to "rape" the people.
3. When GOVERNMENT actually addresses the individuals rights to life liberty and property then I might agree with you. So end the wars, end entitlements that have my 6 year old daughter in debt for how many thousands of dollars already in her young life.
4. The mere fact that I "think" GOVERNMENT is pointless has me labelled a domestic terrorist. You keep your GOVERNMENT,

1. No, the banks exist because people put money in the banks and take loans from the banks, which they own the FED to print money out of thin air for our economy.

2. The corporations are not government granted monopolies, they are monopolies own by the minority wealthy class of this country who owns most of our economy, which they use to control and influence our government.

3. You need the government to address life, liberty, and property, when you are already born with the right to be free with life on this land. I guess you believe you have no freewill and need the government to say so. The debt is not own by the citizen but by corporations yet you continue calling it public debt.

5. Yes, I will keep the government to provide service while you stay away.

We the people are the government who have let representatives who pretend to be the government run amok.

reply to post by Laokin


In tough economic times you adapt to the situation in front of you, the ones who do well are the ones who understand the situation, adapt to the new economic climate and change industries if necessary....

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood


Not in marketing, in sales and in my industry if you're good you will have many opportunities...

I'm not trying to sound like some cold-hearted dick, I understand times are tough and people are struggling and have had to make great changes in their lives recently. I just believe that if you're unhappy with how your life is going, you change it, you re-educate yourself, try a different indusry, move away from your comfort zone and try to adapt to the new economic times that are here.....

Sorry if what I said earlier came off cold, all i was trying to do was to tell my story as an example that i believe is quite common today....

Originally posted by MIDNIGHTSUN
1. No, the banks exist because people put money in the banks and take loans from the banks, which they own the FED to print money out of thin air for our economy.

Without the creation of the FED these banks would be no more. These banks today are bankrupt and kept propted up by government. Fractional Reserve Banking is a ponzi scheme

2. The corporations are not government granted monopolies, they are monopolies own by the minority wealthy class of this country who owns most of our economy, which they use to control and influence our government.

Patents give corporations monopolies over many many things and stifle creativity and advancement. You can not run a business "legally" without paying off the government. There is no real competition when the government is involved. Why would government go after big oil when local state a federal gets up to a dollar on avg for every gallon of gas you purchase? You think the government really cares about the environment? Then why do they prohibit things like compressed air vehicles from importation?

3. You need the government to address life, liberty, and property, when you are already born with the right to be free with life on this land. I guess you believe you have no freewill and need the government to say so. The debt is not own by the citizen but by corporations yet you continue calling it public debt.

Governments only role should be the protection of the individuals life liberty and property.

5. Yes, I will keep the government to provide service while you stay away.
We the people are the government who have let representatives who pretend to be the government run amok.

Oh yes, democracy, the raping of the minority by the majority.

Originally posted by D377MC
That proves my point, you are having your own private conversation. Where exactly did I say I thought governement was the solution? Now, if you do understand hyperbole, and can accept I was exaggerating, surely you understand that there is no solution insofar as criminals get away with their crimes day in and day out.

The fact that you vote and are somehow upset with these thugs and goons says you think government is the solution

Now try a couple for treason and hang them. You won't have any trouble doing that and remaining within the parameters of the law either. The death penalty exists for a reason, lets start applying it to those who really deserve it.
How do you see the others behaving after that? Buisness as usual? Hang a couple more, I guarantee you will get results pretty quickly.
As they say in Italian, 'A male estremo, estremo rimedio.'

edit on 9-7-2011 by D377MC because: (no reason given)

And where does the murdering stop? Why is no one can think of a solution that doesnt involve violence, yes perhaps they should be tried for treason, but killing them only creates more victims, their children, grandchildren how many would be enough?

reply to post by NuroSlam


Yeah, representative government is the solution, and always has been. The people who have convinced you that government can not work are lying to you. Undermining government is how the third world nations remain third world

Protecting individual liberty includes protecting people from white collar crime.

EDIT to ADD: The belief that government can not do its job of establishing order, regulating interstate commerce and looking after the general welfare of the people as written in the U.S. Constitution, is pure communism.

The whole free market concept, PURE COMMUNISM.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by D377MC
That proves my point, you are having your own private conversation. Where exactly did I say I thought governement was the solution? Now, if you do understand hyperbole, and can accept I was exaggerating, surely you understand that there is no solution insofar as criminals get away with their crimes day in and day out.

The fact that you vote and are somehow upset with these thugs and goons says you think government is the solution

No it doesn't. Also, why are you assuming I vote?

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by macman
Oh yeah, I forgot that your righteous knowledge of economics trumps all.

I am the only one that presented any facts. All I am getting back are talking points and a long winded rebuttal to an argument I did not make. If you question my knowledge then you need to dispute my facts.

edit on 8-7-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)

That is your 'go to' statement. "I was the only who presented facts".
Sorry, but yours is not the all knowing, all correct facts.

No, that is reality. No one is stopping you from presenting any facts to the counter yet all you are doing is growling. What is that?

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Kitilani
reply to post by macman

 

HATCH: Well, Bastiat, the great economist of the past said, the place where you’ve got to get revenues has to come from the middle class.

So, yeah, we have an unbalanced tax code that we’ve got to change.

Your interpretation is more than welcome.

The QUOTE is wrong. Like I said, the title is misleading.

What is wrong with the quote? How exactly is it wrong?

Originally posted by BIGPoJo

Not sure if you are aware of this or not OP. There are millions of Americans who live like leaches off of the backs of hard working middle class Americans. I am talking about welfare. Welfare is a good thing until bad people take advantage of it.

You mean GE? Exxon mobile? Every major agricorp company? Who are these leeches exactly?

So how can the top 5% save us by taxing them more? I'm in the top 10% and I already pay a ton of taxes, 36k last year to the fed. That 36k is 36k more than about 30% of the households in America paid. So where do we get more taxes from?

"The evil rich" was created by the Democrats as propaganda to garner poor votes, (going after the lower 80% in income for votes is not a bad idea) but 8 years under Clinton did little for them, and 4 years under Obama will be the same, but I still remember when one girl was asked "why are you voting for Obama?" and she said " he is going to buy me a house". Well I think she is still waiting, but he got her vote.

I’m not sure where the hate for those who done well with their lives has come from, and I read a lot of it here on ATS too. But I need to ask what is a bigger drain on our system, the family who makes 200k a year, or the family that been on welfare for generations?

It seems that everyone makes life choices and the ones who make bad life choices want to blame their woes and troubles on the ones that happen to make good life choices.

This is from page one and I find it striking…

Originally posted by dalemcfadShoulder the burden? This pisses me off. I guess next time I'm at the pump filling up my beat up 10 year old vehicle with my 4 hungry kids in the back (didn't get the memo on population control) and some guy in his beemer pulls up behind me I will just run right over and give the dude my last 20 bucks to help him out and "shoulder the burden"

Didn’t get the memo?

I guess I need to shoulder my tax burden and yours a long with your four kids. The beemer guy has done nothing to you and most likely has even created jobs. Tax the rich more and they will just down size with the loss of jobs… that THEY created in the first place. Not hard to understand where jobs come from. The true “evil rich” is about .01% of the rich population with the other 99.9% providing jobs and paying the vast majority of income taxes already.

If we do need to tax the poor more to break even than maybe that is a good indicator we are spending too much and instead of taxing ANYONE more just lower our spending. If let’s say we taxed the rich another 50% more and that doesn’t work (which it wouldn’t) what do we do then? The middle class and poor is all that is left, so maybe the answer is not in “the evil rich” as much as in" the evil large foot print Fed Government" that needs to be downsized.

But then that would kind of piss off the Socialist and those who go through life living on Government life support….

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by NuroSlam

 

Yeah, representative government is the solution, and always has been. The people who have convinced you that government can not work are lying to you. Undermining government is how the third world nations remain third world

My own eyes shows me it doesn't work.

Protecting individual liberty includes protecting people from white collar crime.

EDIT to ADD: The belief that government can not do its job of establishing order, regulating interstate commerce and looking after the general welfare of the people as written in the U.S. Constitution, is pure communism.

The whole free market concept, PURE COMMUNISM.

edit on 9-7-2011 by poet1b because: see above

I truly fail to see how the idea that the consumer has a right to his property and the right to decide how he wishes to spend the product of the fruits of his labor is in anyway communism, why don't you try reading Hyakes "Economics in One Lesson" and understanding what communism is before you come spewing nonsense about free markets being communism, Government at its very core is socialism/communism in that it redistributes wealth at the end of a gun barrel. Its only capable of existing with the threat of violence. It must steal, kill and imprison in order to "acquire" its wealth, it is not a producer but a consumer of other peoples work, blood sweat and tears.

Originally posted by D377MC
No it doesn't. Also, why are you assuming I vote?

When as a US senator you consistently decide and vote in favor of corporations (check his involvement in the BP spill ), who incidentally are contributing thousands to your office, to the detriment of the people whom you are meant to represent then you are a traitor, and throughout human history traitors have been hung.

Unless you are the spokesman for those who do vote yet are to stupid to see the forest for the tree's and not for yourself, then you must believe that government is the solution to the problem rather then the very core of it.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by BIGPoJo

Not sure if you are aware of this or not OP. There are millions of Americans who live like leaches off of the backs of hard working middle class Americans. I am talking about welfare. Welfare is a good thing until bad people take advantage of it.

You mean GE? Exxon mobile? Every major agricorp company? Who are these leeches exactly?

These companies only exist because they are protected by the government from the full and complete wrath of the people. But the biggest leaches on the backs of Americans are government workers

reply to post by NuroSlam


which is why a few years ago we had alot of new teachers abandoning the teaching jobs that they had chosen to train for...
they claimed it was because the teachers couldn't get salaries that would enable them to pay off their student loan debt...
what do you think?? did these future teachers go running to wall street because they found the life of a leech unsavory? or maybe, possibly, they found a spot where they could be bigger leeches off of society???

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by D377MC
No it doesn't. Also, why are you assuming I vote?

When as a US senator you consistently decide and vote in favor of corporations (check his involvement in the BP spill ), who incidentally are contributing thousands to your office, to the detriment of the people whom you are meant to represent then you are a traitor, and throughout human history traitors have been hung.

Unless you are the spokesman for those who do vote yet are to stupid to see the forest for the tree's and not for yourself, then you must believe that government is the solution to the problem rather then the very core of it.

Sorry, but you really are having a hard time comprehending simple sentences. I'll summarize this one for you, by paraphrasing:

'when a US senator receives funds to vote in favor of corporations he is a traitor'

That does not imply that I vote, neither does it imply I believe government is the solution. Nowhere. Not at all. By no stretch of imagination and no matter what you smoke.

As I said, you are having a conversation all by yourself, where you put words in my mouth so that you can argue back along your favorite lines.

For the record, I have never voted in my life. Ever. Also for the record, I have as much faith in government being the solution to any problem as I do in you actually making sense of what I am saying in plain English.

reply to post by NuroSlam


"Economics in One Lesson" is a really good book. It opened my eyes to the difference between ideals of policy and reality and paved the path for me becoming a libertarian.

I'm sick of everyone yelling "Tax the rich..Tax the rich!!! They need to help close our debt deficit!"

WRONG!!!!

While the middle and upper class is being taxed to the max...part of the reason we are in a DEFICIT is because well..is it not obvious? the poor do not even pay their taxes!!! LEAVE THE HARD WORKING MIDDLE AND UPPER CLASS ALONE!!!