"Orrin Hatch: The 'Poor' Should Do More To Shrink Debt, Not The Rich"

reply to post by inforeal


SO lets get this straight. Huffington post is a valid media source, yet Fox news and the Blaze is not?

What ever.
I heard Hatch's speech. Your title is misleading as this is not what he said.

Love how ATS'ers deem one bad, but one good when it plays for them.

Sure Sure!!

Why do we only elect the rich?
Do we think, Oh, he's rich, he must be smart, and he's successful, he must know how to run things.

I used to do IT work as a consultant and I met a lot of my area's richest men.
Some of them I got to know very well - and believe me, none of them had got rich by being 'good' people. In fact, most of them had got rich from either being born into money, or having done something illegal and got by with it. IE "I grew pot in a cave down close to south Georgia until I got enough money to build my first apartment complex."

So it's my belief, from my experience, that if we keep electing the rich, we're going to keep electing people that are good at hiding things and living off the fruits of others.

I want some blue collar guys to vote for. Too bad none can afford to run and no one else sees that they might be a lot more decent at representing the majority.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by 547000

 

The idea of using a small amount of our tax money to give a few of our dollars that we earned because of the greatness of the American civilization, is not forcing anyone to do anything.

The preamble to the constitution says " for the general welfare of the country"

What about being forced to give our tax money to military excursions that kill children? Does that bother you, like it bothers you so much we have a social safety net?
That by the way is the worst in the western world.

Libertarian philosophy is pie in the sky and impractical in a post modern society. If you want to be a libertarian moved to the woods and live by yourself.

Also, I was addressing people who claim to believe in Christ and his philosophy, like this stupid fool Senator in the pocket of the rich and powerful.

Yes it is forced. It is social engineering. People who want economic freedom are being forced to engage in social engineering. If we claim to be doing what's best for our society by forcing charity, we might as well force social conservative values. It's good for society in the end, whether they appreciate it individually or not, right? If we contend that freedom is important, why only social freedom and not economic freedom? Don't you see the hypocrisy here?

Defense spending, enough to protect freedom from invaders, is obviously a function of a limited government. I believe in Christ, but I also believe many will never find the truth of the gospel. The most we can do is share it with people, not force it on them. As far as I'm concerned, most people are probably going to hell, and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

Oh, and by the way most Libertarians are anti-war. If it's pie in the sky to seek out to eliminate hypocrisies in your world view then yet I don't mind being pie in the sky.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by inforeal

 

SO lets get this straight. Huffington post is a valid media source, yet Fox news and the Blaze is not?

What ever.
I heard Hatch's speech. Your title is misleading as this is not what he said.

Love how ATS'ers deem one bad, but one good when it plays for them.

Sure Sure!!

Uh huh

HATCH: Well, Bastiat, the great economist of the past said, the place where you’ve got to get revenues has to come from the middle class. That’s the huge number of people that are there. So the system does need to be revamped. As far as, I think I made the point that if you just go with what the president says about the wealthy, you might get $36 billion compared to the $1.5 trillion expenditure this year, or should I say deficit this year. And the problem with that is that you hit about 800,000 small businesses where the jobs are created that would hopefully get enough people to pay taxes. So, yeah, we have an unbalanced tax code that we’ve got to change.

I tell you, if we get control of that committee, the Finance Committee, I intend to see that it’s changed. Not to hurt the poor. We should help the poor. But to make sure that there’s a civic duty on the part of every one of us to help this government to, uh, to be better.

link

Is Hatch a reliable source?

To all the left extremists out there that think the answer to our debt problem is just to tax those greedy rich people, I suggest you brush up on basic economics. Those greedy rich people are the ones who provide investment capital which creates JOBS. They will respond by cutting headcount and raising prices on all goods produced. The tax will be passed right on to the consumer. Haven’t you ever heard the phrase "Don't bite the hand that feeds"?

I was unemployed for 3 months and was forced to take a job at a grocery store for almost a year just to make ends meet. The problem is that there are too many people who think they are too good to work these kinds of jobs.

We are almost at the point where it is just not worth it to be productive. When its not worth it anymore to be productive then the brain drain begins. You can already see it happening as those with money are refusing to invest in the U.S. and are investing abroad instead.

reply to post by joyride0187


Factless right wing talking points are not going to fix the economy. GE got a tax refund, cut jobs, and raised prices.
Would you like a list of major companies that have enjoyed tax cuts/refunds year after year while cutting jobs or outsourcing and raising prices?

Facts have a sick liberal bias.

Originally posted by aero56
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

Is this a joke?

Just trying to fit in round these parts

reply to post by inforeal


lol people speak as if EVERY company sends work over seas! As if that is the basis of why we should NOT have a FREE economy.

I am currently unemployed. My wife is out of work because she hurt her back ( at work and workman's comp refused to pay her because of 2 doctors conflict of her injury so no workman's compensation for us)
We have a 1 1/2 year old and we struggle on a DAILY basis.........

Does this mean I want the downfall of the free market? lol Of course not!

Do I blame big business? Why would I?! It is not there job to give me a JOB!

It is MY JOB to get a job!

I don't want to take peoples freedom away to make money how they see fit.....

If you dont like a company..... BOYCOTT IT!!!

Like i said the other day in a different thread......

STOP TRYING TO TAKE MY FREEDOM AWAY FOR "YOUR" FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL GAIN!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Kitilani
reply to post by joyride0187

 

Factless right wing talking points are not going to fix the economy. GE got a tax refund, cut jobs, and raised prices.
Would you like a list of major companies that have enjoyed tax cuts/refunds year after year while cutting jobs or outsourcing and raising prices?

Facts have a sick liberal bias.

So, if you raise taxes on business.... they will create more jobs? What kind of logic is that? Can one of you liberals please explain this to me? Seriously. I have an MBA but somehow missed this technique for spurring economic growth.

Your answer to fixing the economy is a classic PONZI scheme! Take money from businesses to pay for the interest on the money we borrowed for all of these unnecessary wars and entitlement programs. Bernard Madoff is probably laughing in his federal jail cell while eating his federal meals paid for with borrowed money. He is small potatoes compared to the Treasury and Federal Reserve Bank. What if we all decided to borrow money each month just to make payments on previous loans and to pay for living expenses? That's right.... borrow money each month just to pay your bills with no hope of ever paying it back. That is exactly what happens each time Congress "raises" the debt limit. When will the madness end? No matter what we do.... its gonna hurt us all real bad. But if we keep borrowing.... its only gonna get much worse. I suppose the banks will loan me all the money I need each month to pay my bills even though I am broke and unemployed...yeah right !! lol Guess I should do what the Treasury and Congress does so well.... take out loans that cannot be paid back while selling bonds to suckers at rock bottom interest rates. Then sell more bonds to more suckers when the previous bonds come due.... ahhhh, how lovely is the simple PONZI scheme !!!!! I think I am gonna puke.... :-(

2 words.....CUT SPENDING! Problem solved. Its really not that complicated.

Originally posted by joyride0187

So, if you raise taxes on business.... they will create more jobs? What kind of logic is that? Can one of you liberals please explain this to me? Seriously. I have an MBA but somehow missed this technique for spurring economic growth.

That is not exactly what I said now is it? I have to question that MBA after your last post is something that is demonstrably untrue while all you have to attack me on is your straw man.

Your answer to fixing the economy is a classic PONZI scheme! Take money from businesses to pay for the interest on the money we borrowed for all of these unnecessary wars and entitlement programs. Bernard Madoff is probably laughing in his federal jail cell while eating his federal meals paid for with borrowed money. He is small potatoes compared to the Treasury and Federal Reserve Bank. What if we all decided to borrow money each month just to make payments on previous loans and to pay for living expenses? That's right.... borrow money each month just to pay your bills with no hope of ever paying it back. That is exactly what happens each time Congress "raises" the debt limit. When will the madness end? No matter what we do.... its gonna hurt us all real bad. But if we keep borrowing.... its only gonna get much worse. I suppose the banks will loan me all the money I need each month to pay my bills even though I am broke and unemployed...yeah right !! lol Guess I should do what the Treasury and Congress does so well.... take out loans that cannot be paid back while selling bonds to suckers at rock bottom interest rates. Then sell more bonds to more suckers when the previous bonds come due.... ahhhh, how lovely is the simple PONZI scheme !!!!! I think I am gonna puke.... :-(

edit on 8-7-2011 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2011 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

A cannot defend myself against your straw man argument. I guess when you make things up, you win.

ATTENTION!

I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.

What do we do when the poor................ get rich?

What happens when the poor................. create a multimillion dollar company?

What happens when no one................... makes under $100,000 a year?

What would happen if no one made under $100,000 a year but some make $200,000 a year?

Would the poor still be poor and the rich rich?

Should I have to pay more taxes because I make $100,000 more a year than you? even though you still make $100,000 a year and can take care of your self?

Or should I be regulated in order to make sure I don't make any more than you?

Oh.... one more question.....

Should a Graphic Arts Designer make any more or less than a construction worker?

reply to post by Kitilani


So where does it state that "Orrin Hatch: The 'Poor' Should Do More To Shrink Debt, Not The Rich" .
Sorry, it's not there.
While I think Hatch's time has been done, that is not what he said.

A flat tax is the way to go. Everyone pays the same percentage.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by joyride0187

So, if you raise taxes on business.... they will create more jobs? What kind of logic is that? Can one of you liberals please explain this to me? Seriously. I have an MBA but somehow missed this technique for spurring economic growth.

That is not exactly what I said now is it? I have to question that MBA after your last post is something that is demonstrably untrue while all you have to attack me on is your straw man.

Your answer to fixing the economy is a classic PONZI scheme! Take money from businesses to pay for the interest on the money we borrowed for all of these unnecessary wars and entitlement programs. Bernard Madoff is probably laughing in his federal jail cell while eating his federal meals paid for with borrowed money. He is small potatoes compared to the Treasury and Federal Reserve Bank. What if we all decided to borrow money each month just to make payments on previous loans and to pay for living expenses? That's right.... borrow money each month just to pay your bills with no hope of ever paying it back. That is exactly what happens each time Congress "raises" the debt limit. When will the madness end? No matter what we do.... its gonna hurt us all real bad. But if we keep borrowing.... its only gonna get much worse. I suppose the banks will loan me all the money I need each month to pay my bills even though I am broke and unemployed...yeah right !! lol Guess I should do what the Treasury and Congress does so well.... take out loans that cannot be paid back while selling bonds to suckers at rock bottom interest rates. Then sell more bonds to more suckers when the previous bonds come due.... ahhhh, how lovely is the simple PONZI scheme !!!!! I think I am gonna puke.... :-(

edit on 8-7-2011 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2011 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

A cannot defend myself against your straw man argument. I guess when you make things up, you win.

Oh yeah, I forgot that your righteous knowledge of economics trumps all.

Originally posted by fallow the light
reply to post by inforeal

 

lol people speak as if EVERY company sends work over seas! As if that is the basis of why we should NOT have a FREE economy.

I am currently unemployed. My wife is out of work because she hurt her back ( at work and workman's comp refused to pay her because of 2 doctors conflict of her injury so no workman's compensation for us)
We have a 1 1/2 year old and we struggle on a DAILY basis.........

Does this mean I want the downfall of the free market? lol Of course not!

Do I blame big business? Why would I?! It is not there job to give me a JOB!

It is MY JOB to get a job!

I don't want to take peoples freedom away to make money how they see fit.....

If you dont like a company..... BOYCOTT IT!!!

Like i said the other day in a different thread......

STOP TRYING TO TAKE MY FREEDOM AWAY FOR "YOUR" FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL GAIN!!!!!!!!!!

May I ask a question? This is not about anyone owing you a job as much as paying their fair share.
When you get cas for your automobile, you pay taxes to help maintain the roads.
You use the roads. Your car damages the roads. So do you think it is ok that you contribute to maintaining the roads?
You might even need the roads so that mail can come to you or an ambulance. You want the roads to work, don't you? Do you mind paying for that?

Originally posted by macman
Oh yeah, I forgot that your righteous knowledge of economics trumps all.

I am the only one that presented any facts. All I am getting back are talking points and a long winded rebuttal to an argument I did not make. If you question my knowledge then you need to dispute my facts.

reply to post by macman

HATCH: Well, Bastiat, the great economist of the past said, the place where you’ve got to get revenues has to come from the middle class.

So, yeah, we have an unbalanced tax code that we’ve got to change.

Your interpretation is more than welcome.

reply to post by inforeal


I agree… and how about repealing NAFTA? I've seen first hand what that pos agreement has done to Michigan. And now they want an agreement with who is it… South America? I swear they want us all to be ready to bartenders and porters for when our Chinese overlords eventually end up here. This kind of thing has got to stop!!!

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by 547000

 

...Libertarian philosophy is pie in the sky and impractical in a post modern society. If you want to be a libertarian moved to the woods and live by yourself...

I would be oh so interested in hearing why you think Libertarian philosophy is "pie in the sky" and impractical in a post modern society.

reply to post by Undertough


I most certainly see your point and We all should pay our fare share to this society.

Now what is fare share?

I am a smoker whom lives in Maryland any one who lives in the tri state area KNOWS NOT to come to Maryland to buy smokes. Why is this? Because of our cigarette taxes.

OH OH OH and don't forget 6 cents on the dollar sales tax!

hmm..... since im poor....... and I don't pay much in taxes cuz I don't make much...... and i don't drive much so not allot of gas tax....... and i cant spend much on any thing (cigarettes or what ever) so not much sales/cigarette tax........... am i paying my fare share?

What about those who do make more and pay more........ and run companies that ship goods and have to pay allot of gas tax........... and buy allot of products and pay allot in sales tax? Are they paying their fare share?