UN Torture Investigator Denied Access to Bradley Manning

reply to post by kuai137

New US slogan ...

"Liberty and Justice for All"
... unless we don't fee like it.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
doesnt matter WHAT the intel was, he distributed something he wasnt AUTHORIZED to do so, so now he's paying the price

So, like, Nazi soldiers who obeyed their masters were doing right in your book? No responsibility if someone else tells you to do it? I am no JAG officer, but as far as I know, no troop is required to bey unlawful orders.

I took an oath to the Constitution, not the Corporate Oligarchy.

reply to post by PsykoOps


yeah so many responses comparing manning to george washington

to wit

" i know hes a patriot because ats said so."


homer and compass

Originally posted by bricmpt

Originally posted by HomerinNC
doesnt matter WHAT the intel was, he distributed something he wasnt AUTHORIZED to do so, so now he's paying the price

So, like, Nazi soldiers who obeyed their masters were doing right in your book? No responsibility if someone else tells you to do it? I am no JAG officer, but as far as I know, no troop is required to bey unlawful orders.

I took an oath to the Constitution, not the Corporate Oligarchy.

Dont you DARE compare our soldiers to the Nazis, last I checked we didnt kill innocents deliberately, en masse, and in concentration camps. The unfortunates that were killed were on a battlefield. They chose to be there during active combat. Those soldiers did their job.
If you talk like you do, and say you swore the Oath, I have a feeling you didnt finish your term of enlistment, probably didnt even make it out of boot camp.

It's not like some big gay colonel or lieutenant is raping Bradley in his cell every night. Some people can still talk to him. Just not one on one privately. Which I agree is sort of odd because why couldn't they simply videotape and audiotape the whole conversation with him safely handcuffed to a table? Anyway, even if he did have additional damaging info to scream out, yell out, or morse code blink out with his eyes, not much news would come of it. The problem is people like to see hard physical tangible evidence; not "rumors" from a 3rd party interviewer. Surely anyone else with a clearance can simply expose some more damaging info. They are all probably too scared though now because I haven't seen anything juicy in a while. Except for a few things on cryptome.org and whatever I see day to day in my profession. Listen, even Chemical Ali was treated with respect and good medical care, albeit before being hung last January. Hell, I even personally know the frickin Army medical Captain that actually took care of him!

On top of this, he didn't have the highest level of clearance. Too young for his impresionable mind to handle. Although lots of Army recruits do get sent to Menwith Hill England to spy on communications. (Echelon) Which would be kind of fun might I add! (This has backfired on me in the past though with things like Wireshark and Cain & Abel software. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it!) If he had a higher clearance, we'd be reading about UFO's and aliens and the nanotechnology that has been imposed on people in Wikileaks, not a bunch of useless expired GPS co-ordinates of insurgents. Does Julian Asange have in his possesion this majestic and cosmic info? If he does, he has at least enough sense to NOT leak it. Although the videos of innocent civilians getting killed by us and others does makes me upset. Sometimes I find myself yelling "WIKILEAKS!" at the airport when I see a group of camo dudes at the Starbucks. Sometimes I look at their chest isignia rank, shake their hand and say thank you for all you've done. Just depends if I am in a good mood or not.

It's amazing how re-active certain parts of the government is. You'd think they would be pro-active. Better encryption, better control over access, better background checks. I worked for US Dept of Veteran's Affairs a few years back and knew allergies and certain things about generals and top brass. Then, like 2 months after my contract finished men in black show up at my neighbors asking about me. Gee um, don't ya think you should have done that BEFORE you hired me to work on the servers and firewalls? Don't ya think that's a little worse than forgetting where ya put that night vision video of a helicopter shooting a truck? I guess that's what happens when Honeywell subcontracts out to Unisys and Unisys goes on Monster.com to pick whoever. But I digress.

Bradley will be fine. Just takes time.

Dont you DARE compare our soldiers to the Nazis

Oh now THIS will be FUN.

last I checked we didnt kill innocents deliberately

Like how we killed a million innocent Iraqis to justify 3000 American lives?

en masse

See Above.

and in concentration camps.

Like the Japanese?

The unfortunates that were killed were on a battlefield. They chose to be there during active combat.

Yes those people CHOSE to have a life. It just so happend this "active combat" planted itself directly in their living rooms.

Those soldiers did their job.

Damn Skippy.

If you talk like you do, and say you swore the Oath, I have a feeling you didnt finish your term of enlistment, probably didnt even make it out of boot camp.

The sad part is, the majority of the soldiers enlisted have absolutely no idea what they actually swore an Oath to nor what it actually means. Do they teach you about the constitution in boot camp? No sir, I dont believe they do. Manning uphelp his Oath to defend this nation from enemies both foreign and domestic... it just so happens that the latter came into play in this circumstance.

With all do respect, take a trip out of your bubble world and look around you. Does this nation look like America to you? Is the TSA sexually assaulting 6 year olds something our founding fathers would have wished for? Going to war without the support of congress because the UN told us to?

Dont you dare mock my patriotism. You can serve your government and go play war all you want, but the sad part is you still just dont get it.

Originally posted by monkcaw
reply to post by OldCorp

 

A "traitor of the worst kind?" With all the information this site has to offer you're going to single out 23 year old Bradley Manning as the worst kind of a traitor? You can't be serious, especially when you read about how other people have been prosecuted under The Espionage Act: even government agents get the dignity of clothing.

And you seem convinced that Bradley, like some scorned juvenile, did what he did just to be malicious and selfish. What are you basing these accusations on? I come to a very different conclusion based on his chat logs with Adrian Lamo:

I've seen it stated that Manning "tried" to go through proper channels. Maybe he did, but he probably didn't. Regardless, there are acceptable procedures to go through without committing treason by abrogating your oath. The first thing he should have done is go to a chaplain; not for religious comfort, but because any military member can report a crime to a chaplain without fear of reprisal. They take their version of "confession" seriously, and it wouldn't be the first time that this route has been used to report a crime.



That movie was based on the true story of Pham thi Mao, who was raped and murdered by US troops in what has become known as The Incident On Hill 192. The protagonist in this case, played by Michael J. Fox, was a courageous soldier by the name of Daniel Lang, who put his own life at risk in order to report this horrendous crime. After encountering resistance from his chain of command, Lang encountered a chaplain who took his allegations to the proper authorities. The perpetrators were punished as a result (not severely enough IMO. If I had been the judge, they'd STILL be breaking rocks in Leavenworth.)

If Manning had no luck with a chaplain, he could have sent an anonymous email to the JAG, NCIS, or any number of military agencies outside his immediate chain of command. He would have eventually found a sympathetic ear. Contrary to the beliefs of some in this thread, there ARE still servicemen and women for whom HONOR is a sacred thing. That sense of honor would have compelled that person to do the right thing.

But all that is presuming that he had an actual crime to report isn't it? He didn't. He just dumped the files onto the thumb drive and published them with no knowledge of, nor regard for, their contents because - according to your own chat log - "people have a right to know." No, they don't. There is a good reason files are classified: case in point, the Egyptian revolution.

----------------------------------------- Mil-Mil Cooperation: Ready for Next Level -----------------------------------------
4. (S/NF) President Mubarak and military leaders view our military assistance program as the cornerstone of our mil-mil relationship and consider the USD 1.3 billion in annual FMF as "untouchable compensation" for making and maintaining peace with Israel. The tangible benefits to our mil-mil relationship are clear: Egypt remains at peace with Israel, and the U.S. military enjoys priority access to the Suez Canal and Egyptian airspace. We believe, however, that our relationship can accomplish much more.

Over the last year, we have engaged MOD leaders on developing shared strategic objectives to address current and emerging threats, including border security, counter terrorism, civil defense, and peacekeeping. Our efforts thus far have met with limited success. From one of the cables

Why do you think the Egyptians revolted? Who was really revolting? Well the Muslim Brotherhood, supported by Iran, had a big part to play in it. One of the reasons was because they are of a similar mindset to the Iranians in the belief that Israel must be destroyed. The Mubarak government wasn't particularly brutal, no more so than any other Arab nations government, but the "Peace with Israel" thing was really sticking in the craw of the Islamists.

And now that they are getting a say in the government, what has happened?

Cairo has given Hamas rule of the Gaza Strip de facto recognition, is about to lift the blockade on the Gaza Strip and is forging new understandings with Damascus and the Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad radicals based there.

The Egyptian military which has taken over in Cairo also turned a blind eye to at least two or three Iranian arms ships which, prior to the capture of the A.S. Victoria last week, made it through the Israeli sea blockade and delivered weapons, including C-704 shore-to-sea missiles at El Arish. Hamas will be free to go out and collect them through the reopened Rafah crossing. It is now obvious that Cairo's permission for two Iranian warships to transit the Suez Canal on Feb. 22, knowing that at least one was laden with weapons for extremists, was in line with the new Egyptian policy.

Only two weeks on the job, the first tasks new foreign minister Nabil Alaraby set himself were to lift the Egyptian-Israeli embargo on the Gaza Strip, reopen the Fatah crossing to free passage of people and goods, downgrade relations with Israel and the Palestinian Authority led by Mahmoud Abbas, and open a new page with Syria. Source

So you can blame Manning for upsetting the apple cart of Middle East stability, especially in relation to the long standing peace between Egypt and Israel. You can directly hang the deaths of every Afghan killed by the Taliban around Manning's neck.

You can also make a case for the leaked cables being a partial impetus for the various revolutions, and you can DEFINITELY make a case for the leaked cables causing increased anger against the US in the Middle East. So the deaths that occurred as a result can be laid at Manning's feet as well.


So yes, I'm VERY serious about my assessment of what Manning has done. When does the "people's right to know" become more important than the deaths that will result from the release of classified information?

One question that I would like ALL of Manning's supporters to answer: How many people have to die before a secret is worth keeping?

reply to post by AndrewJay


Why are you lying? Most killed in Iraq by us were combatants and most innocents killed were killed by radical Muslims, not U.S. Soldiers. If you don't care enough to tell the truth, why pretend to be the Holy One? You also seem to be willing to ignore the mass graves left by Saddam and Son's and act as if Jihadists are innocent little lambs? Are you a Jihadist yourself? You write as if you are. Lord knows we've seen plenty on the Internet pretending to be who they are not.

Bush Jr. was a traitor and war criminal.

Manning is a hero.

Get your priorities straight.

Do unto other exactly as you would have them do unto you.

reply to post by OldCorp


I never knew that you could leak info to a chaplain and not get *cough* in trouble. But then on top of that, the powers that be of the military take it seriously? Sounds like mis-managment of seperation of church and state to me! It also sounds like they will act on certain crimes as they see fit. In God We Trust is printed on money, but that can't actually be proven? The saga continues...

This was going to segway me into the topic of un-informed jewish people that drive Volkwagen Beetles but I don't want to get everybody all sidetracked.

Redundant.

Originally posted by OldCorp

One question that I would like ALL of Manning's supporters to answer: How many people have to die before a secret is worth keeping?

edit on 4/12/2011 by OldCorp because: Fixed link

Or you might ask:

How many people have to die by virtue of a treasonous secret being kept before those who know the secret's content are held to account for their activities?

Or is that queastion just not worth considering in your view of all this?

What the U.S. is doing to Bradley Manning is yet another among many examples of the pervasive and outrageous abuse of power which robs what once was an honorable and just system of the respect that it used to command. Those responsible for the abuse of Bradley Manning are just perpetuating and strengthening the widespread and growing distrust of and disrespect for our seriously broken system.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by MakeSoap

 

I THANK GOD you never served, people like you get people killed

No sir, people like the government get people killed. I would be happy to supply the stats if you wish. This man was defending the constitution. The job the government should be doing...

Originally posted by dubiousone

Originally posted by OldCorp

One question that I would like ALL of Manning's supporters to answer: How many people have to die before a secret is worth keeping?

edit on 4/12/2011 by OldCorp because: Fixed link

Or you might ask:

How many people have to die by virtue of a treasonous secret being kept before those who know the secret's content are held to account for their activities?

Or is that queastion just not worth considering in your view of all this?

What the U.S. is doing to Bradley Manning is an outrageous abuse of power which robs what once was an honorable and just system of the respect that it used to command. Those responsible for the present abuse of Bradely Manning are responsible for creating widespread distrust of and disrespect for our government.

1. Who died as a result of the cables being classified. I showed you my proof, now show me yours.
2. Are you going to answer the question?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by AndrewJay

 

Why are you lying? Most killed in Iraq by us were combatants and most innocents killed were killed by radical Muslims, not U.S. Soldiers. If you don't care enough to tell the truth, why pretend to be the Holy One? You also seem to be willing to ignore the mass graves left by Saddam and Son's and act as if Jihadists are innocent little lambs? Are you a Jihadist yourself? You write as if you are. Lord knows we've seen plenty on the Internet pretending to be who they are not.

two illegal wars and 2 million dead most of whom are women and children.. cut the crap this happened during the illegal occupation not before...

Originally posted by HomerinNC

Originally posted by bricmpt

Originally posted by HomerinNC
doesnt matter WHAT the intel was, he distributed something he wasnt AUTHORIZED to do so, so now he's paying the price

So, like, Nazi soldiers who obeyed their masters were doing right in your book? No responsibility if someone else tells you to do it? I am no JAG officer, but as far as I know, no troop is required to bey unlawful orders.

I took an oath to the Constitution, not the Corporate Oligarchy.

Dont you DARE compare our soldiers to the Nazis, last I checked we didnt kill innocents deliberately, en masse, and in concentration camps. The unfortunates that were killed were on a battlefield. They chose to be there during active combat. Those soldiers did their job.
If you talk like you do, and say you swore the Oath, I have a feeling you didnt finish your term of enlistment, probably didnt even make it out of boot camp.

i will second that comparison. the only difference being the usa is killing for oil....

reply to post by purplemer


LMAO, killing for oil?
If we were killing for oil, wouldnt prices be lower, instead of almost five friggin dollars a gallon for gas???

Try again

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by purplemer

 

LMAO, killing for oil?
If we were killing for oil, wouldnt prices be lower, instead of almost five friggin dollars a gallon for gas???

Try again

Not when you're trying to use the chaos as an excuse to keep the price high to... I dont know, make money?

reply to post by HomerinNC


yep for oil control, really one does not need to be the sharpest tool in the box to work that out..







www.youtube.com...=54

reply to post by HomerinNC


Not likely, I'm a veteran myself, of two wars, and I'm really not scurred of domestic operations, because I know, first hand, how lax they are.

The fact is that Bradley Manning upheld his oath in the most honorable way possible. By exposing the crimes of the United States government, and showing the nation how corporate interests are coercing the United States into war, he fulfilled the oath he took to defend the constitution.

Too often people forget that a soldier does not swear allegiance to a flag, or to a president. Nor do they swear to defend the "economic interests of the United States". They simply vow, that they will uphold and defend the constitution of the United States from all enemies, be them foreign or domestic. No where in the oath does it say to defend the corporatist continuity of the Federal Government.

Despite what people may believe, the truth is very clear here. Bradley Manning swore to defend the ideals forever enshrined in parchment that founded this country. And he did that beautifully. That young man has more courage in his left fingernail, than the whole of his oppressors have in sum.