The real truth about 9/11 according to FBI vault!

reply to post by rstregooski


I apologise if the word moronic offended you, I joined this forum to enter into debate about the subject matter, I have no wish to start/join a slanging match.

Originally posted by rstregooski
Has anybody busted in with WTC 7 and the official report, or the videos with firefighters saying "get back, it's about to come down"...?

Nope.

Or all the witness testimonies of explosions, and other evidence of explosions, and all the evidence that points to the fact that these explosions were not exploding transformers or any other single "mundane" explanation.

reply to post by Uncertainty


No worries, just had to bust that in there...

reply to post by bsbray11


(directed towards Uncertainty)... Quickly I'll say that, being in construction for years with a background in metallurgy: #1- The official report does not explore the molten metal, present weeks after that date which is HUGE evidence. And also, having witnessed many construction accidents, I can tell you that even a small accident usually results in a site being shut down for days or weeks pending investigations by OSHA. Here, from what I understand, the Pentagon field was quickly covered up with soil by dump-trucks, and steel debris was I believe shipped overseas? It's been a while since I verified that, don't have the sources in front of me at the moment...

Originally posted by Uncertainty
reply to post by rstregooski

 

here4awhile,

You asked not to reply, however thats why I joined this forum, to engage in deabte. Watch me all you like, I have nothing to hide.

I hope our next dialogue will be along more constructive lines.

Debate what? All you've done in this thread is come in here calling us moronic and asking us to literally spoon feed an entire topic to you on the premise that there is no supposed factual evidence out there to support this...when it's staring you in the face in this thread...and in many others...there is no debate with a person like you on a forum like this...there is only you constantly asking for more and more and more proof while you sit on your butt and wait for a response so you can just do the same thing again, and provide no real relevant info yourself. Maybe you should start doing a bit of real research on the topics at hand rather than asking us to provide it for you...maybe then I would be interested in a debate with you

reply to post by bsbray11


bsBray,
I’m not sure what OBL refers to?

Why do you think we need a real criminal investigation and what would that entail?

About the war games, you obviously are more educated than me on this matter, what can you offer that would make me believe?

I am not American, does that change your view any on my use of the word patriotism? I believe your so called alphabet agencies are the best trained in the world, can you tell me why they would lie to me?

reply to post by rstregooski


I also work in the construction industry although in a different country from you, as such I''m not sure of the things you refer to in your post.

Yea, I love the FBI vault, I just can't believe they would release all those docs. How do we know they didn't have any contact with AQ? A LOT of it is covered up. But, since they were close to the CIA, it could have been an inside job. o.O

reply to post by here4awhile


I know a great deal about this subject, as a non U.S. citizen I probably know more than you.

I do not require spoonfeeding, ask me a direct question and I will answer.

Originally posted by Uncertainty
reply to post by bsbray11

 

bsBray,
I’m not sure what OBL refers to?

Why do you think we need a real criminal investigation and what would that entail?

About the war games, you obviously are more educated than me on this matter, what can you offer that would make me believe?

I am not American, does that change your view any on my use of the word patriotism? I believe your so called alphabet agencies are the best trained in the world, can you tell me why they would lie to me?

Alright, please nobody jump on me for inserting a Zeitgeist clip here (i know that's a touchy subject).. But Uncertainty, if you got 30 minutes, this is a decent start.. I certainly saw this long after I formed my thoughts, but see what you think...

Originally posted by Uncertainty
bsBray,
I’m not sure what OBL refers to?

Osama bin Laden.

Why do you think we need a real criminal investigation and what would that entail?

Because there is too much information that contradicts or is totally unexplained by the official story, such as the scores of witness testimonies at the WTC, and other evidence, of multiple explosions occurring there in all three buildings throughout the entire morning and into the afternoon. That's just one example of something totally ignored by the "investigation" done so far. Not even mentioned. In fact the NIST report for WTC7 even states that the investigators found "no evidence" of anyone hearing explosions, which is ridiculous. That alone is reason enough to investigate NIST as far as I'm concerned, between that, and their engineer John Gross claiming that he found no evidence of molten steel, when that evidence was already included in appendix C of the FEMA report, and also mentioned in other witness testimonies.

What would it entail? I'm not a criminal investigator, but there are criminal investigators that would know what to do. Mike Ruppert is one of them, former narcotics detective for the LAPD who has already presented monetary ties between the hijackers and various sources to which, according to the official story, there should be no connection. You can look up his presentation on Google or I can post it here for you if you want, if you want a taste of what a professional criminal investigator, independent of any government agency, could accomplish.

About the war games, you obviously are more educated than me on this matter, what can you offer that would make me believe?

That they happened?

Here's an introduction: www.oilempire.us...


That website doesn't include all the relevant information, but it gives the basics and even sources for the original reports from which knowledge of these wargames came. Basically it comes down to whether or not you seriously believe that a bunch of wargames and other exercises occurring on and around 9/11, including the NRO simulating a plane flying into their HQ near Washington DC (after which their employees were sent home), and FEMA setting up a command post inside of WTC7 on September 10th for an alleged bio-terror exercise scheduled on the 12th that obviously never happened, were just coincidence. For me there are too many eery similarities for me to be comfortable assuming with faith that it was pure coincidence and nothing else to see there, move along. There was never any investigation, and this is something else that definitely deserved it.

I am not American, does that change your view any on my use of the word patriotism?

No. As an American myself I know first-hand how the word is always brought up at the most inappropriate times.

Refer to one of our founding fathers:

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Samuel Johnson

If it were only for patriotism, this country wouldn't even exist in the first place.

I believe your so called alphabet agencies are the best trained in the world, can you tell me why they would lie to me?

The relevant question isn't whether or not they would lie to you, but where is their proof for what they say?

Would you rather have faith in people, or defer directly to logic? You've avoided this question already. Why are you avoiding this question?

Anyone ever watch the live footage of 9/11 on the internet way back machine?

You can see it's scripted by what the news anchors say and change up as time goes on. Find the Bryant Gumbel one... It's a doozy.

Not sure if this feature still exists, actually. If I find the section, I will edit this.

They hid it well!!!! It took a few searches but here ya go, enjoy and have some tissues with you.

www.archive.org...

Here is Bryant's news report: www.archive.org...

Notice how they mention Howard Hughes right at the beginning of this video before it happens?!!?!!?!!?! Then scroll through the find Gumbel.

Originally posted by Uncertainty
I know a great deal about this subject, as a non U.S. citizen I probably know more than you.

I don't understand this reasoning at all.

9/11 happened in America. Since you don't live here, you automatically think you know more about it? What form of "reasoning" is that?

You didn't even know what OBL stood for, or about the wargames, or apparently a lot of other things being posted here. I'm just saying your attitude is unwarranted based on what you've already posted.

Originally posted by Uncertainty
reply to post by here4awhile

 

I know a great deal about this subject, as a non U.S. citizen I probably know more than you.

I do not require spoonfeeding, ask me a direct question and I will answer.

If you don't require spoon feeding how bout instead of asking me to ask you a question you post some information you think validates that this wasn't an inside job or the work of hamas...what kind of question should I be asking when you're the one doing all the asking? Being a non U.S. citizen doesn't mean jack when it comes to knowing more on the subject at hand...you still have yet to come to the table with real information pertaining to the topic...maybe when you actually do that...I can ask a question or go into debate with you...but until then...why should I be the one to prove anything or ask anything of you?

reply to post by bsbray11


I do not wish to avoid the question, the truth is I choose to belive in people.

However to quote Shakespeare, "What a piece of worke is a man! how Noble in
Reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving
how express and admirable,"

I will read the links you suggested and get back to you in time.

Originally posted by Uncertainty
reply to post by rstregooski

 

I also work in the construction industry although in a different country from you, as such I''m not sure of the things you refer to in your post.

For example, I'm a welding inspector, and spent two years on a highrise. We had an elevator shaft accident resulting in one man's death, and the site shut down for two weeks. Workers were not even allowed to bring their tool-belts or any equipment home when they left. Look at the investigations post-911, it's like they were trying to get evidence out of there as soon as possible

reply to post by bsbray11


I think the press in my country are more honest than in yours and I lived in LaGrange Georgia for five years.

reply to post by rstregooski


I am truly sorry that you experieced a death in your workplace, maybe we should all realise that things like that are more important than mere words.

Having experienced that do you choose to belive that your own elected government conspired to kill 3000+ of your citizens?

Originally posted by Uncertainty
Having experienced that do you choose to belive that your own elected government conspired to kill 3000+ of your citizens?

Many more people than that were killed in the Vietnam War, and our whole reason for getting into that war was later admitted to be fabricated by the NSA. It was the Gulf of Tonkin incident and it was a false flag. And coincidentally, like I said earlier, the Navy admiral commanding during that event happened to be Jim Morrison's dad. Not entirely relevant but interesting nonetheless.

Our government has killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of civilians in the Middle East already. They also intentionally infected both US citizens and foreigners with syphilis and other diseases just to see what they'd do. We also brought back Nazi rocket scientists and propagandists after WW2 and gave them jobs here. The CIA has also infiltrated countries in Latin and South America and caused uprisings and coups that were extremely violent and resulted in many deaths. The US has had its hand in more than its fair share of death and destruction that was needless.

Originally posted by Uncertainty
reply to post by rstregooski

 

I am truly sorry that you experieced a death in your workplace, maybe we should all realise that things like that are more important than mere words.

Having experienced that do you choose to belive that your own elected government conspired to kill 3000+ of your citizens?

No man, I don't believe the "selected" government collectively conspired on this. There are certainly small factions within that knew about this. But this argument is not about that. It's about being a reasonable human being and looking at what we've been told and making a reasonable assessment that, "well maybe, just maybe everything I hear on the news isn't exactly how it really happened".. As in, do your own thinking, don't believe everything you hear. God forbid I bring up Gulf of Tonkin (Vietnam War).. You've heard that the 'then' Secretary of Defense Robert Mcnamara has stated it was an accident, right? But believe whatever the news tells you if that's what you want to hear. I won't stop you.