Freemasons - I have a few questions.

reply to post by Skyfloating

The idea that God created the Universes according to Architectural and Geometric principles and design is just a little masonic. There is also some speculation about the origins of Freemasonry with Pythagoras or the Cathedral builders having been Freemasons. But I wouldnt go so far as to say that Freemasonry is about any of that or Sacred Geometry.

I guess that by your statement above you mean that Freemasons are not required to study any of these disciplines, it would be a matter of whether they found it interesting or not? So in other words, Freemasons are free to take up whatever study they want and if they don't want to study anything, that's ok too? There are no requirements to learn and understand anything beyond the rules of a particular lodge is what I mean to ask actually.

There is neither hypnotism, nor sex magick performed in Masonic lodges. Nor are we all gullible victims of manipulation. Instead we joined Freemasonry of our own free will and accord.

Dammit, this is the only reason I had an interest to begin with. Thanks. Just kidding. How do you all maintain composure and civility so seamlessly in light of such accusations?

Originally posted by jackflap
I guess that by your statement above you mean that Freemasons are not required to study any of these disciplines, it would be a matter of whether they found it interesting or not? So in other words, Freemasons are free to take up whatever study they want and if they don't want to study anything, that's ok too? There are no requirement to learn and understand anything beyond the rules of a particular lodge is what I mean to ask actually.

We are encouraged to study the seven liberal arts & sciences, described in the Fellowcraft degree as Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic, Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and Astronomy, but there aren't really any specific teachings in Masonry devoted to those 7 areas. But those are areas a well-rounded person should be well-versed in.

How do you all maintain composure and civility so seamlessly in light of such accusations?

At times, with difficulty. In the charge of the 1st degree, we're instructed

…neither are you to suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it.

But it can be tough sometimes.

Originally posted by pslind69

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by pslind69

 

I think "very" anything is dangerous. Moderation is the key. If someone was "very" Masonic, then it would probably mean they were letting other things in their life slip by.

All in all, a good person is a good person, it doesn't matter which path you choose to be a good person, so long as you reach the goal!

Thanks for your answers in this thread everyone.

Well, I guess if one feels that joining Freemasonry will make them a better person, then I don't see anything wrong with that. But I guess I'll never see the need for some of the more bizarre rituals involving guns, coffins etc. (correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I have learned from documentaries etc.) and the whole rebirth thing. To me - one's real life starts the day one is born - not at some point where you are initiated into an order. Again correct me if I'm making wrong assumptions.

I guess it's hard for anyone outside - to really know what Freemasonry is about at its core. I think that's what makes us question it all the time.

I haven't read through the last couple of pages, but I want to address this one anyway. I have literally been to hundreds of Freemason degrees given at a dozen or so Lodges, and I have never seen a coffin used, and I know that a Gun would never be allowed at any of the Lodges I have attended.

I have heard the same rumors, and our degree work does have an opportunity where those things "could" be used, but it really wouldn't make sense. They didn't have guns or fancy coffins at the time of the events we are mimicking, so that would just be stupid and counter-productive, not to mention dangerous.

No, I can guarantee that nobody I have ever seen, sat in Lodge with, or visited in another Lodge would approve of the use of these items.

Originally posted by jackflap
How do you all maintain composure and civility so seamlessly in light of such accusations?

I should add, I, personally, often tend to ignore the more outrageous accusations waged against Masons by conspiracy theorists on ATS. And by doing so, or by keeping a level head, my account has outlasted many of them. It's not that anti-masons get banned by Masonic mods; it's that rabidly passionate people often debase their own arguments by turning to personal attack. It's a far better strategy to keep you passions subdued and let your enemy step on the landmine of his own creation. (There have been a number of Masons banned from ATS as well, for similar reasons, but there's a pretty long list of those who have gone up against us on these forums who have gotten the ban hammer eventually for not playing well with others and adhering to the terms & conditions of the site.)

Originally posted by Scorpitarius
So then, could one be of ANY, or NO religion, and be accepted as a Mason? From Atheist to Satanist, from Jehovah's Witness to Buddhist, from Muslim to Christian? Or are there some guidelines?

Traditionally, Freemasonry admitted Christians only, and the Gothic Constitutions and Charges of the fraternity are specifically Christian. In the 18th century, it was decided prejudicial to discriminate against Jews, so the Christian requirement was dropped, with a belief in the Supreme Being being the standard religious requirement.

Technically, this also allows those from theistic non-Abrahamic religions to become Masons. However, since the Masonic ceremonies specifically define God as the God of the Patriarchs, I'm not sure if anyone outside the Judeo-Christian mindset would find Masonry very useful.

Those Grand Lodges working in the Swedish Rite still require candidates to be Christian. Several other Masonic societies offering advanced degrees also require candidates to be Christian: Knights Templar, Rosicricians, Rectified Rite, Royal Order of Scotland, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, Red Cross of Constantine, and Scottish Rite under the English constitution,.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by illuminazislayer

 

There is neither hypnotism, nor sex magick performed in Masonic lodges. Nor are we all gullible victims of manipulation. Instead we joined Freemasonry of our own free will and accord.

Have you ever questioned whether those conspiracy-books are true or not?

I wish there were! Now if we start getting "sex magic" into the Lodges, our membership and attendance at meetings will skyrocket! Even if it is just to watch! My Lodge has about 160 members, and about 25 of those members show up regularly. If we send out a notice that some sexual act is going to be on display, half the members will probably quit, and the other half will probably have perfect attendance from there on out!

For my brothers.......
I wonder if that would be done at "refreshment" or "labor?"

Talk about a recruiting tool.

Originally posted by TheOracle
reply to post by no1smootha

 

impressive!

indeed I was a member of a continental lodge (French to be precise) and it is true atheists and (some) women are allowed and this schism with the anglo-saxons is quite important, moreover I am mostly interested in a specific and most secretive germanic branch if you know what I'm talking about.

and don't you think sexism is so last century?

edit on 1-4-2011 by TheOracle because: (no reason given)

So actually, you were never a Mason at all. In fact, even worse, you were a clandestine Mason. Those are the ones that give all the regular Lodges of Masonry a bad name, because, like yourself, they do some weird and un-Masonic stuff, and people think it is the norm.

And people wonder why we protect our membership, our modes of recognition, and our secrets so much. This "Oracle" is a perfect example of why Masonry is so guarded. Somebody can start a clandestine Lodge, mimic some of our symbols, go off the deep end with magic and whatever else, and then claim to be a Mason, and make us all look crazy!

True Brothers will know the difference, but the general person will not know the difference, and the next thing you know, we are in here putting out silly rumor fires. This is a prime example of why Masonry has to protect itself, and why we have to keep some things secret. How else could we tell an imposter from a real Mason?

reply to post by Masonic Light


I thought the Rectified Rite was the Scottish Rite under English consitution.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
I thought the Rectified Rite was the Scottish Rite under English consitution.

The Scottish Rectified Rite is an autonomous system consisting of seven degrees. It is based heavily on Martinist philosophy.

In the United States, the Rectified Rite is controlled by the Grand Priory of the Reformed and Rectified Rite of the United States, under the umbrella of the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar.

reply to post by mkkkay

Perhaps you refer to the Law society that so many are tricked into being a part of, and yet cannot name? It is funny, we say we are part of society, but you are correct to ask one to name theirs.
Peace and One Love!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I will just repeat myself, a close friend of mine, master and chairman of a lodge taught me everything there is to know about freemasonry. He felt he had to leave and also wrote a revealing book (I can share with you if you like).

Originally posted by jackflap

I guess that by your statement above you mean that Freemasons are not required to study any of these disciplines, it would be a matter of whether they found it interesting or not? So in other words, Freemasons are free to take up whatever study they want and if they don't want to study anything, that's ok too? There are no requirements to learn and understand anything beyond the rules of a particular lodge is what I mean to ask actually.

Yes. Study itself is considered a virtue, not what to study.

How do you all maintain composure and civility so seamlessly in light of such accusations?

The gigantic discrepancy between peoples beliefs and reality sent me on a trail of research and discovery. Why do people believe what they do? How do their beliefs color their perception? Should I try to attempt to tell them or just leave them? What is their agenda?

Or even: Is there a parallel world where Freemasons are evil and they are remote sensing that world?

Originally posted by getreadyalready


Talk about a recruiting tool.

Sadly, I can see some faces who joined Freemasonry expecting just that...to get a life full of sex and power. You should see the disappointment on their faces after the first few meetings when its humility and modesty they reap instead of sex and power

Originally posted by TheOracle

I will just repeat myself, a close friend of mine, master and chairman of a lodge taught me everything there is to know about freemasonry. He felt he had to leave and also wrote a revealing book (I can share with you if you like).

I'm also a Past Master, and doubt he can teach me anything significant if he thinks that a lodge has a "chairman".

Originally posted by TheOracle
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I will just repeat myself, a close friend of mine, master and chairman of a lodge taught me everything there is to know about freemasonry. He felt he had to leave and also wrote a revealing book (I can share with you if you like).

Dam. I'm conflicted.
Yes, I am interested in the book, there is never such a thing as "too much" information, then again, I know it is probably similar to what you have been saying in this thread, which is entirely off the mark, so I know the book will frustruate the hell out of me, with no chance to relieve that frustration (except for that sexual magic stuff, but we don't speak of that).

I don't know how many more ways there are to say these things. I don't believe there is anybody in Masonry that knows more than some of the guys in this thread, and some of the guys I have personally met and learned from. I'm not calling myself an expert, far from it, but I am saying that if there is such a thing as an expert, I know several of them, and the ideas of guns, witchcraft, hypnotism, are all from way out in lala land!

reply to post by Masonic Light


That is exactly what I was thinking ML! Also a Past Master, and turned down Secretary this year, might do it down the road some. BUT, my curiousity is piqued.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Actually, there is a pseudo-Masonic organization called Ordo Templi Orientis that really does teach sex magic (well, at least sort of).

The sex magic is supposed to be a secret of its highest degree (the ninth). Of course, they don't actually *practice* sex magic in their lodges, they just give instructions on how to perform it. It's basically a form of tantric yoga.

And quite obviously, has little to do with legitimate Freemasonry.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Of course, they don't actually *practice* sex magic in their lodges, they just give instructions on how to perform it. It's basically a form of tantric yoga.

I didnt realize OTO doesnt practice it in lodge. Thats kind of....lame...

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I didnt realize OTO doesnt practice it in lodge. Thats kind of....lame...

lol, no, it's not practiced in the lodge. When one gets the ninth degree, he takes the obligation, and is given all the secret papers on the subject. That's about it.

Most of the secret papers were published by Francis King. They were mostly written by Reuss and Crowley.

reply to post by Masonic Light


And there isn't anything wrong with sex magic! I'm a fan of anything that has to do with sex.

Many of us have all kinds of different hobbies, and habits, and vices, and Masons are certainly no exception. If I learned of some Kundalini approach or Tantra that would unlike higher thinking, or more clarity, or just more sex, I would gladly adopt those practices into my persona.

BUT, as you say, it still wouldn't have a thing to do with Masonry.

Originally posted by TheOracle
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I will just repeat myself, a close friend of mine, master and chairman of a lodge taught me everything there is to know about freemasonry. He felt he had to leave and also wrote a revealing book (I can share with you if you like).

First you'll have to share with us what a chairman of a lodge is.