Freemasons - I have a few questions.

reply to post by TheOracle

Rituals are part of a process of indoctrination, at almost hypnotic levels, to make masons fully obedients to the cause. Is it a bad thing? Yes and no, it can certainly lead to some form of fanaticism.

Hypnosis and other mind control techniques have been in existence from the times of mystery religions which are the true origins of freemasonry and many other secret societies, mind manipulation techniques were also used on the initiates during rituals in those mystery religions.

From : The illuminati Formula for creating a mind control slave.

forbiddenknowledge.com

A Masonic magazine for higher Masonic rites where sex magic is performed entitled Freemasonry Universal, Vol. 5, 1929, p. 58 states,

"Certain Forces are sent through the candidate’s body during the ceremony, especially at the moment when he is created, received and constituted an Entered Apprentice Freemason. Certain parts of the Lodge have been heavily charged with magnetic force especially in order that the Candidate may absorb as much as possible of this force. The first object of this curious method of preparation is to expose to this influence those various parts of the body which are especially used in the ceremony. In ancient Egypt, there was another reason for these preparations, for a weak current of physical electricity was sent through the candidate by means of a rod or sword with which he was touched at certain points. It is partly on this account that at this first initiation the candidate is deprived of all metals since they may very easily interfere with the flow of currents."

Long story short, the Masonic lodges have been using hypnotism and electric shock in their initiation rituals for a long time. The combination of fear and hypnotism combine to help seal the lips of an initiate from telling what in some lodges are secrets of criminal activity.

If you can find out who are the princes of freemasonry, then a lot would become clear :

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true implication is reserved for Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. " - Albert Pike, Morals and Dogmas.

Originally posted by TheOracle
I will stand by my claims for what I know comes from experience and from a person close to me, chairman of his lodge.

I will likewise stand by my claims, which also come from experience, being a Past Master of my Lodge, Past Grand Lodge officer, and past officer for the General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons International.

And one doesn't join a the 'closest Lodge' as you point out.

In most jurisdictions, he certainly does.

There are different kind of FM and different kind of Lodges, at least in Europe. They of course communicate but at high level, there is a whole lot of secrecy between them.

There is only one form of legitimate Freemasonry, in Europe and everywhere else. The lodges and Grand Lodges are in amity with each other. There are also lots of fake pseudo-Masonic organizations that are not in amity with regular Grand Lodges, nor do they practice orthodox Freemasonry.

Originally posted by finalword
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are two branches of Freemasonry. Irregular Freemasonry which is controlled by the Scottish Rite through the Grand Lodge of Ekklesia based in Vatican City (the shady one) and Regular Freemasonry (the the normal one).

The Scottish Rite is a regular and legitimate Masonic body. There are no Grand Lodges in Vatican City, as the Roman Church expressly forbids membership in Freemasonry.

Cagliostro opened his Grand Lodge of the Egyptian Rite near Vatican City in the late 17th century. The building was eventually confiscated by the Church, Cagliostro was arrested by the Inquisition, and died in jail.

Originally posted by TheOracle

indeed I was a member of a continental lodge (French to be precise) and it is true atheists and (some) women are allowed and this schism with the anglo-saxons is quite important,

For the record, the legitimate Masonic body in France is the National Grand Lodge of France, which is in amity with the United Grand Lodge of England, and all Grand Lodges in the United States and Canada.

The National Grand Lodge of France does not admit women or atheists.

Originally posted by SecretSky

Hmmm - could you provide the source for this information? Where did you get this list of people from? Could any Freemasons comment on these people?

The only person mentioned in that list by sagigirl who really was a Mason was Clark Gable.

Originally posted by Laokin

Are you kidding me?

With all the ex masons who quit over luciferianism I'd have to say you are just too low on the totem to be "in" on the secrets.

There has been no one who left Masonry "over Luciferianism". This is not surprising since there is no "Luciferianism" found in Masonry anyway.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Thank you for the reply;
Isn't, however, the Masonic "religion", for lack of a better word, Sacred Geometry? Hence the "G" in the Masonic compass logo. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.
Sacred Geometry is awe inspiring, amazing and very beautiful. I, however, consider it to be an outcome of conscious intelligence. Like Love for family or friends is not Love, but the outcome of love. Sacred geometry is not "God", but it is the outcome of "God". Again, I also use the word "God" for lack of a better one.
Again, asking for curiosity's sake, not to try and knock someone for their understandings or beliefs.
Peace and One Love/

Originally posted by Scorpitarius
Isn't, however, the Masonic "religion", for lack of a better word, Sacred Geometry? Hence the "G" in the Masonic compass logo. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sacred Geometry does indeed play a significant role in Masonic symbolism. It does not compose the entirety of Masonic instruction, but it is important nevertheless.

Originally posted by TheOracle

Rituals are part of a process of endoctrination,at almost hypnotic levels, to make masons fully obedients to the cause. Is it a bad thing? Yes and no, it can certainly lead to some form of fanaticism.

What cause? Masons are not required to be obedient to any cause.

When you commit to Freemasonry, it becomes more than a 'hobby', it becomes part of your life.

True

you are expected to commit your time

Expected: At least one meeting a month

AND money (a lot of it)

Roughly US$ 75 per year. To some, this might be "a lot." But probably not to most...

It is in short a huge pyramid scheme, with many just happy to join an exclusive brotherhood and others aiming to reach power and enlightenment.

Why do you call it a pyramid scheme?

Also the further you go, the harder it is to get out and they will be pretty clear of the dangers for speaking out against Freemasonry or divulging its secrets.

Not so. The secrets of the side (higher, in your book) orders are much less important than in the craft, since they are not used to identify each other - they are merely symbolic. I've even forgotten many of the signs and secrets of some of the other degrees that I've done. Before taking part in a ceremony, I often have to ask another brother to remind me how they are done before I show the candidate.

That's why most Masons (well those in the know) will protect their lodges by any means out of fear, ignorance, idolatry or simply because they believe in it.

I protect my lodge because it is dear to me. But certainly not "by any means."

Does it make a good person better? No I am afraid

This is your opinion. All masons, and most of those who know them, will disagree.

I prefer to do my best to help anyone, brother or not.

A true Masonic virtue.

reply to post by Laokin

Yes, he's s big jokester! Hahahaha

Were all these ex-Masons you cite 33rds? Probably not. You shouldn't equate rank with the Scottish Rite degrees. That's not how it works. The SGIG of Idaho (or any state) can go to Lodge and will only be recognized for their accomplishments in the Blue Lodge. In fact, Grand Lodge officers are usually accorded honors in the other appendant bodies while the appendant bodies only get introduced at special occasions in the Blue Lodge. Another fact is that every appendant body requires permission from the Grand Lodge to operate in that jurisdiction.  

There are several Scottish Rite Masons in my Lodge, but are neither officers nor have they achieved the title of Past Master, which in my jurisdiction is a voting member if the Grand Lodge, and unlike the top 3 Lodge officers (delegates to Grand Lodge) can vote how they feel not how the Lodge voted.

As I said before the various appendant orders may not legally operate in a jurisdiction without approval of the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge. If one is expelled membership in the Blue Lodge he is expelled in all bodies of Freemasonry.

Ones position comes from election held by the Brethren or appointment by the presiding official of the body. Even at my young age I've sat on Grand Lodge committees, and even presided as Chairman.

The 33rd degree is special in the Scottish, but it is quite an accomplishment. The York Rite has many invite only bodies that branch from it and actually outnumber in amount of degrees/orders. The AASR was actually founded by 11 York Rite Masons in Charleston, SC.

Most 33rds are just honorary ones (not to diminish their involvement) as there are only 33 active 33rds per Supreme Council (there is more than just one - each being sovereign unto itself). 

I am a member of 7 different Masonic bodies and have gone through 15 initiation ceremonies. None of these, however, make me feel superior to someone not s member of that body or even a Mason at all. And nowhere in any if these rituals, lessons, and so on of Freemasonry do we wish for world domination. I sit with many Brothers who hold positions in the Grand bodies and also at the National/International level. They give me no reason to suspect they've lied to or misled me.

Originally posted by Scorpitarius

Isn't, however, the Masonic "religion", for lack of a better word, Sacred Geometry?

The idea that God created the Universes according to Architectural and Geometric principles and design is just a little masonic. There is also some speculation about the origins of Freemasonry with Pythagoras or the Cathedral builders having been Freemasons. But I wouldnt go so far as to say that Freemasonry is about any of that or Sacred Geometry. Most Freemasons if you ask them wouldnt even know what that is. And others you ask might have another take on it.

reply to post by illuminazislayer


There is neither hypnotism, nor sex magick performed in Masonic lodges. Nor are we all gullible victims of manipulation. Instead we joined Freemasonry of our own free will and accord.

Have you ever questioned whether those conspiracy-books are true or not?

reply to post by Skyfloating

I wouldn't bother with him. Just another troll that doesn't engage but just plasters crap from other sites. He really should check his sources.

Originally posted by Scorpitarius
Isn't, however, the Masonic "religion", for lack of a better word, Sacred Geometry? Hence the "G" in the Masonic compass logo. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong. We don't "worship" geometry. Geometry is not our religion.

Sacred Geometry is awe inspiring, amazing and very beautiful. I, however, consider it to be an outcome of conscious intelligence. Like Love for family or friends is not Love, but the outcome of love. Sacred geometry is not "God", but it is the outcome of "God". Again, I also use the word "God" for lack of a better one.
Again, asking for curiosity's sake, not to try and knock someone for their understandings or beliefs.
Peace and One Love/

I think we'd agree. The wonder of geometry is in finding these parallels in God's design at so many scales... (Take the ratio Phi, for instance...)

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Scorpitarius
Isn't, however, the Masonic "religion", for lack of a better word, Sacred Geometry? Hence the "G" in the Masonic compass logo. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sacred Geometry does indeed play a significant role in Masonic symbolism. It does not compose the entirety of Masonic instruction, but it is important nevertheless.

I can understand that, absolutely. In fact, I knew this when I asked. What else is accompanied with Sacred Geometry, in regards to enlightenment? I know, such a thing cannot be described in a forum, but I'd appreciate an attempt. If it helps, I am quick to understand, so extreme detail is not necessary and your words will not fall on deaf ears.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The idea that God created the Universes according to Architectural and Geometric principles and design is just a little masonic. There is also some speculation about the origins of Freemasonry with Pythagoras or the Cathedral builders having been Freemasons. But I wouldnt go so far as to say that Freemasonry is about any of that or Sacred Geometry. Most Freemasons if you ask them wouldnt even know what that is. And others you ask might have another take on it.

I can understand that too, in fact, Sacred geometry most certainly predates Free Masonry. Do you mean to say that Sacred Geometry is not taught, or spoken of, in Masonic meetings? I ask due to your statement that some Freemasons wouldn't know what it is. May I also ask your understanding of what, coupled with Sacred Geometry, helps YOU to understand enlightenment?
Thank you all for your answers. It is easier, sometimes, for me to ask things like this via writing...it helps me to not come across as some idiot who just buys into all non-mainstream media.
Peace and One Love!

Originally posted by Scorpitarius

I can understand that, absolutely. In fact, I knew this when I asked. What else is accompanied with Sacred Geometry, in regards to enlightenment? I know, such a thing cannot be described in a forum, but I'd appreciate an attempt. If it helps, I am quick to understand, so extreme detail is not necessary and your words will not fall on deaf ears.

The Blue Degrees are primarily concerned with the philosophical science of morality. However, the basic teachings of ethics are compared to Geometry, with even morality and Geometry being spoken of as synonyms in the second degree of Masonry.

In the higher grades of the Scottish Rite, more emphasis is placed on the mystical appreciation of Masonic symbols, with Sacred Geometry being often the primary theme of the symbolism, especially with the symbols of the Delta, Nonagon, Septagon, and Tetractys, all of which feature prominently in those degrees, especially the 32nd.

In my opinion, the focus on morality in the Blue Degrees, and the evolution of focus on Hermeticism, Alchemy, and Sacred Geometry in the Scottish grades, represents the fact that one must first acquire a personal morality and self-discipline before engaging in the truths of the Divine.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I couldn't agree more. When I first understood the depth of Phi, and what Phi REALLY means, I grew goosebumps AND shed tears. Very beautiful.
So then, could one be of ANY, or NO religion, and be accepted as a Mason? From Atheist to Satanist, from Jehovah's Witness to Buddhist, from Muslim to Christian? Or are there some guidelines?
Thank you all for engaging in this conversation it is very...dare I say...enlightening!
Peace and One Love.

reply to post by Scorpitarius


You must profess belief in a Supreme Being, so no atheists. Other than that, it's wide open.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thank you for your response. You've given me some new areas of research.
I think, if you haven't already, you might like to research the Nations Of God's and earths. Also termed the Five Percent-ers (5%ers). They teach about Supreme Numerology/ Mathematics and The Supreme Alphabet. They use these to outline morality in one's every day life. They also teach what they call The Solar Facts, which are facts about the Earth and the Heavens that can be used to understand humanity AND morality. I see some similarities.
Thanks again;
Peace and One Love.

Originally posted by Scorpitarius
So then, could one be of ANY, or NO religion, and be accepted as a Mason? From Atheist to Satanist, from Jehovah's Witness to Buddhist, from Muslim to Christian? Or are there some guidelines?
Thank you all for engaging in this conversation it is very...dare I say...enlightening!
Peace and One Love.

The only question on the petition for membership related to this is "Do you profess faith in a Supreme Being?" It's worded slightly differently from state to state. I'm also finding "
Do you believe in the existence of one ever-living and true God?", or an affirmation that "I believe in the existence of a Supreme Being".

We never ask you to define that supreme being further. That's between you an Him/Her/It.

So no atheists or agnostics. You have to believe in something.