Freemasons - I have a few questions.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Every year between 1955 and 1964 there were more than 4 million Masons in the United States.

The US population in 1960 was about 180 million. So estimate about half that male, or 90 million. Doing the math, that puts roughly one in 20 men in the US was a Mason in the early 1960s.

Is it so hard to imagine that all things being equal, and politicians in the 60s being entirely male, that 1 in 20 politicians in the 60s were also Masons?

This isn't a sign of "the power of Masonry" or any undue control over the policial system, it's just a statistically sound estimate. So in the 60s 5% of politicians may have been Masons.

Now let's take that forward to today. Since 2007 there have been less than 1.5 million Masons in the US. The 2010 Census estimates that we're up to 307 million people in the states. Again, cutting that in half to only account for males, and we're down to 1 in 100 men in the US being a Mason. And now days, we have more women in "positions of power" as well. So it's probably far less than 1% of "people in power" who may be Masons.

Even the 1% in power wouldn't be able to discuss anything about politics with their fellow Masons from what I gather, right? So - the two things would in effect be totally non-related, other than the character which perhaps makes a strong leader.

But isn't there some 13 to 20 levels above a 33rd mason? Usually being actual assassins? That is what I'm told from a mason myself.

And on a side note: Assassin's creed seems to be more truthful than what I made it out to be.

It is interesting to note. Hundreds of years ago, people were hung by the neck for believing in witchcraft.

Now adays, these practices, like wicca, Santeria etc, is much more common and more accepted in today's world. We realized it wasn't such a big deal in the end, and that they weren't trying to go after our children. (although some people do live their lives in delusions and do take things to extreme, however it is proven that a belief is not harmful, it is the negative action of man against another that is.)

Now the same exact thing is happening with Freemasonry. Because of things happening in the world, due to "Secrecy" people try and point fingers and discriminate. One hundred years from now, something else will pop out and Freemasons will no longer be the focus of society.

The heart can never understand that which they have not witnessed. It is a natural part of human evolution and also to fear the unknown. But when you take a good look at the picture. It is fear that ends up transforming us into the very thing we hate and reject. In the end, you end up becoming your own worst enemy, sabotaging everything good that comes to your life and that in itself is a very sad thing to be in.

There is no question. Evil DOES exist in the world. but blindly attacking everything because you let fear take over, makes you no different than those who seek power for a global take over.

Originally posted by SecretSky
Even the 1% in power wouldn't be able to discuss anything about politics with their fellow Masons from what I gather, right? So - the two things would in effect be totally non-related, other than the character which perhaps makes a strong leader.

Precisely. Campaigning in lodge would be a big no-no too.

Do I know a couple of judges or sheriffs that are Masons? Sure. A few. I also know a lot of plumbers and general contractors who are Masons. (And, in the younger generation, a lot of IT professionals...) (Strangely, a lot of real estate lawyers and firemen as well... at least in my lodge...)

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
It is interesting to note. Hundreds of years ago, people were hung by the neck for believing in witchcraft.

Now adays, these practices, like wicca, Santeria etc, is much more common and more accepted in today's world. We realized it wasn't such a big deal in the end, and that they weren't trying to go after our children. (although some people do live their lives in delusions and do take things to extreme, however it is proven that a belief is not harmful, it is the negative action of man against another that is.)

There are still extremists/fundamentalists who are still as paranoid about that stuff too, though. I mean, so much hatred simply stems from fear, and most often that fear is solely because that "other" is different than the self, and no other rational reason.

Honestly, I really don't feel the "heat" on Freemasonry today. Most of society ignores us. It's really only the uninformed conspiracy theorist who really gets paranoid about us, and they're a minority in the grand scheme of things. (A dangerous minority... there've been way too many death threats against Masons on ATS for my taste, but a minority nonetheless)

Ever stop to think that an affiliation of people who have been around since Solomons temple and maintained a tight tradition of oral history passed dwon thru the generations might have some little knowledge that they understand wouldnt be good for everyone to be a party to?...

What makes me sick is that I see a new trend where kids and young adults are all wearing free mason rings. Now pretty much anyone can go and buy one online on ebay or pawn shops etc. But these guys are all flaunting it. I'm pretty sure all of the rings I have been shown by guys I've met are fake, I mean why would you flaunt something if its supposed to be a secret. These guys also think they are untouchable like they are affiliated and protected by a gang just by wearing a ring.

reply to post by thewrongpath


To a true Mason,his ring is known as his Light....ask the punk if they know what its called

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
It is interesting to note. Hundreds of years ago, people were hung by the neck for believing in witchcraft.

Now adays, these practices, like wicca, Santeria etc, is much more common and more accepted in today's world. We realized it wasn't such a big deal in the end, and that they weren't trying to go after our children. (although some people do live their lives in delusions and do take things to extreme, however it is proven that a belief is not harmful, it is the negative action of man against another that is.)

There are still extremists/fundamentalists who are still as paranoid about that stuff too, though. I mean, so much hatred simply stems from fear, and most often that fear is solely because that "other" is different than the self, and no other rational reason.

Honestly, I really don't feel the "heat" on Freemasonry today. Most of society ignores us. It's really only the uninformed conspiracy theorist who really gets paranoid about us, and they're a minority in the grand scheme of things. (A dangerous minority... there've been way too many death threats against Masons on ATS for my taste, but a minority nonetheless)

Some of that minority would also be in Anonymous. I constantly have debates with them. While I support many of their actions and I do participate in raids from time to time if I see a cause worthy enough to actually make a difference. Those minority are too closed minded that they don't realize the hypocrisy behind their actions.

A few quotes

"They hold secrets, they shouldn't be allowed to"

My response:

You wear the V for vendetta mask to hide your face. You hide behind proxies and tor to mask your IP address untraceable. You yourself are a mystery. And you do not see the Irony of what you just said?

Now, I am a supporter of free will. I believe the world should be governed by free will. While implanting some barriers to protect others. By making free will sacred, you will also have placed a limit on the actions of humans.
What would be the violations of free will?
Murder
religion
manipulation
negative impact on others
etc
In other words, the best way to describe a world governed by free will, would be the mythical utopia.

I believe we are well beyond past experimentation we have enough knowledge in our hands to fully be able to evolve.

There is no question. The dollar collapse is destined to occur to give us a chance to evolve. But to build a better world I know you have to start from scratch.

I read some of the masons philosophy's and they are pure in knowledge. Perhaps the Masons will actually play a huge roll in building that world once the real tyrants are out of the picture. One can hope

reply to post by JoshNorton


this thread has been AMAZING to read i think you guys underestimate how intriguining you are to the rest of us. what do you suggest as the best way to become FM, im a girl so not for myself but my fiance will be reading this when he gets home from work, this is about the only thing on this site i could ever get him to actually read thank you all for this info
would it be dumb to locate a local lodge via the internet & just show up?
again...you guys are fascinating to the masses just letting u know.

Hello again,

I based most of my questions on some documentary I recently watched, where a mason said that Freemasonry was just like any other religion. I will try to see if I can find it again.

Also, why does one need to join Freemasonry just to "know how to be a good man"? Isn't it enough to be helpful and caring in daily life?

Also, what does it mean when the logo with the square and compasses are upside down (the square being on top)? There's one such in my town. Just curious about it.

reply to post by fairytale


Not dumb at all. Show up 30 minutes or so before their meeting is scheduled (it will be posted by their door), and talk to the guys. You can go too, Masons love to meet wives, and we also love to know that the wives are on board with hubby joining.

If you are in California, here is their Grand Lodge site. They will be happy to direct you to some local lodges in your area.

reply to post by pslind69


Its been said a million times, but my favorite so far was, "One doesn't need to join AA to quit drinking, but it helps." One should already be a good man before even considering joining, you are right about that. Be caring and honest in your regular life is admirable, nothing wrong with that at all. That is a great start!

The Square and Compasses are arranged in several different ways, and they mean different things, but that is part of the degree work, so I don't want to give it away. I will say that one of the posters here has a Sun in his Compasses instead of the normal G. That indicates he is a Past Master.

Originally posted by SecretSky
I don't know very much about Freemasonry, other than the little I have read.
From what I have read, Freemasons tend to be helpful people and do a lot of good work for their local communities.
Anyway - I have a few honest questions and would be grateful for your answers.

1. Why did you become a Freemason?
2. Apart from doing good for the community, is there a specific goal of Freemasonry?
3. If Freemasonry reveals any good information to you, which you cannot share with non-masons, why can it not be revealed? If it is good information, surely it would benefit all.
4. Isn't being (somewhat) secretive/holding back information a bit divisive towards the same communities you try to do good for?

Sorry for the many questions - I don't mean them to offend or anything. I'm just curious about how Freemasons perceive these questions. Also, any questions about the reasoning behind my questions - please ask me, and I'll respond.

Cheers!

Hello, I've researched the Masons for a while and I think I can answer these. I've been invited to join a few times, and even went so far as to fill out the necessary paperwork, but events outside of my control (not related to Freemasonry) had me put it off, and I have never gotten back to it. I am still good friends with the person who invited me and also (if this matters....) My Grandfather was a 32nd degree. Also I received an URSI Grant while going to college to do a research project on Mozart's The Magic Flute and how the symbolism was Masonic in its origin.
As for question number one....mainly curiosity. I've studied them for a long time, however I have been more interested in their deep historical ties to the 'Age of Enlightenment' era, and earlier history. They certainly had more influence back then, but you are mistaken if you think it is the case now. This is the time period which much of the symbolism and ritual comes from (however much of it has been altered since then....mainly keeping the original symbolism in place though). Yes there is a type of Hermetic Philosophy behind the symbolism, however the true meaning of most of this is completely lost on modern Masons. You can honestly find out more information about this from your local library than you ever will from joining the Freemasons themselves...They try to downplay anything even remotely controversial about their history anymore. I recommend Hermes Unveiled by Roy Norville as a good book in understanding it. Or just get one of their original books...you can find things like Morals and Dogma written by Albert Pike for free on the net at www.sacred-texts.com...
I got interested thinking I would find a huge conspiracy.....but no. They are only a group of mainly older guys, who get together and have spaghetti lunches and do some charity work now days. Seriously that is it. I wish it were more, I'd probably be more interested in joining them. I've been told that if I joined I could get on a mailing list of other Masons who were really into the original history of the organization...but the majority simply are not interested.

Question number two. Not really....one thing that was quickly pointed out from talking to them, and going to their dinners is that they limit their discussions to topics that are neither political or religious in order to keep conflict out of the group. I suppose other goals may be 'bettering oneself' or 'helping your fellow brother Mason' or words to that effect. There is no political, or religious agenda behind the group....or any real agenda behind the group besides being a man's club and doing a bit of Charity.

Question number three....No info other than secret handshakes and passwords.....and you can find all of those on the Internet anyway if you really want to.

Question number four....Not sure what good a secret handshake or password would do society....but you can find all of that on the Internet anyway, as I said.

Okay, well thanks for your answers guys.

So are you saying that Freemasonry is better at making a good man better, than say being very religious?

Why is C.A. Pike honored with a statue at the National Masonic Temple in D.C.? And also the art work inside depicting long serpent's on the wall's? Pike was a Confederate General. And was key to the birth of the KKK.

reply to post by pslind69


I think "very" anything is dangerous. Moderation is the key. If someone was "very" Masonic, then it would probably mean they were letting other things in their life slip by.

All in all, a good person is a good person, it doesn't matter which path you choose to be a good person, so long as you reach the goal!

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by jrstock
You take an oath upon death. Period. Why the secret? Why not make everyone 'better'? The 'craft', at the higher level is witch-craft. Former 32 degree member Jim Shaw wrote a book on what it IS.

That is an ancient oath, based on the parable of when people had to keep the secrets of their trade-craft to keep from becoming enslaved. At the time of that parable, it was better for one person to die, than for the entire community to become enslaved.

As for the other nonsense. No it isn't. Nothing more needs said. There are plenty of 32nd Degree Masons right here in thread that will tell you that is entirely false.

For the record, I am "only" a 3rd Degree Mason, and it has never kept me out of Grand Lodge Events, or from serving as Worshipful Master of my Lodge, or from participating in anything that Masons participate in. I have been in the Divan of the Shriners, sat in every office of my Lodge, etc., etc. I have been seated next to 33rd Degree Masons, and Grand Lodge Officers. The idea of "rank" is really kind of moot.

But did you take an oath upon death? To this day, does in fact a new member take an oath upon death? Only a few from the community are Mason's. How would the rest become enslaved? From whom?

reply to post by getreadyalready


ok will do, wow thank you! its making me laugh to hear how normal you guys are. smh. *shaking my head* have a great night!

reply to post by jrstock


Yes. It is a "blood" oath. (Actually it isn't even an Oath, it is an Obligation.) We have kicked out plenty of members without killing them, and the significance of the oath becomes clear after you make it through the 3rd level. It is just another part of the parable, but technically it does include death.

I don't think anyone knows for certain what it was like at the time of the building of King Solomon's Temple, but according to our stories, it was very important to protect the trade craft. As long as they had their trade, they were valuable, but if it would have been lost, then they would have become common laborers. At the time, it was probably worth dying to protect, or dying to obtain. That may also have been the reason for the secret words and grips and modes of recognition. Our fraternity is not operative Masons now, but we take lessons from those parables and apply it to our current life lessons.

Don't take my word as fact. I don't know if there is a singular truth, but that is what I take from my experiences through the degrees.