Freemasonry, secret or not?

reply to post by network dude


Yep facts are tangible.
Which is where you lack.
Honestly prove me wrong.
You guys exist, there is a freemason cult world wide.
Us, the people who are not in it, also exist.
It is us who wants proof that you are who you say you are, im not talking about you personally dont get me wrong im talking in general. You could be a nice person, I dont know you.
We want proof because of the secrecy.
We want proof because we have proof that freemason members sit and have sat on positions of power.
These are concerns of people, you must understand.
I know alot of freemasons and I have the same discussions with them, even more heated.
I will debate this subject because I feel there is conspiracy 100%
Sorry if you feel different, you are protecting your own of cos...

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Americanist

 

OK, I think we are having a massive breakdown in communication here. Correct me if I am wrong. We are discussing masonic involvement in evil doings of the banking industry right?

If that is the case, then could you

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

show me anywhere in that link or any other reputible source that even implies

FREEMASONRY

is involved.

I'll be right here.

I guess you'll want a list of the Bilderberg Group next. Sorry, those guys don't get a whole lot of mainstream attention, so you're stuck with questionable sources similar to your questionable behavior. At least we both know that each exist in the World today. You must do a dangerous job of skimming over the surface of things.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


and your choice is to either:
a. believe me and take my word that nothing sinister is happening in any version of Freemasonry that I am or have been a part of

or b. secretly join the ranks of masonry infiltrating every aspect of it in order to see for yourself how I have manipulated the truth and hid the secrets of masonry from humanity.

Those are your choices. Oh, there is a 3rd one

c: continue to act as you have, never venturing out of the research and discussion groups you already have and spend your lifetime believing that Freemasonry is at the core of everything evil.

I had some of the same concerns before I joined. But I have a few friends who I trust 100% who are part of it and I put my trust God that I was making the right choice. I don't regret any of it except that I didn't get involved earlier in life.

josef fritzl probably came across as a really nice person to people not in the know.

the krays done charity work.

reply to post by Americanist


I think you have proven yourself to be exactly what you are. I can see that you will not now or ever offer anything other than innuendo to this discussion. While I enjoyed the exercise, I must jump from this circle. If you ever decide you wish to have a discussion along these lines, I suggest you bring a bit more with you. Any and everyone who reads this will end up shaking their head in confusion over what exactly your point was. have a nice day.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Americanist

 

I think you have proven yourself to be exactly what you are. I can see that you will not now or ever offer anything other than innuendo to this discussion. While I enjoyed the exercise, I must jump from this circle. If you ever decide you wish to have a discussion along these lines, I suggest you bring a bit more with you. Any and everyone who reads this will end up shaking their head in confusion over what exactly your point was. have a nice day.

And perhaps with your trust in God you'll figure out exactly the reason for your choices, why you're part of the Freemasons, and what you and your friends embedded in the organization can do about it.

Fact - Freemasonry has nothing to do with Witch Craft
Whoever believes that to be true, well, you need to go back to the times of the Salem witch trials.
You will be accused of being a witch yourself, just for the modern knowledge you posess, you'll get burned at the stake.

Fact - There are people who join for the wrong reasons, and who wish to use the Fraternity for personal and malevolent reasons. If they reveal those intentions before joining they will not gain admittance. If they reveal those reasons after being admitted they will be expelled. There is no way the fraternity can filter ALL the bad seeds from getting through, some will slip through but that goes with ANY organisation. The former members who have been proven to have commited some form of atrocity or crime have been expelled. And many who are not even members are falsely labeled Freemasons.

For every rare bad seed in Freemasonry there are a billion times a billion good seeds, but nobody ever seems to focus on the good seeds.... I ask why?

Howcome the anti-masons do not acknowledge the good Freemasons have contributed to humanity? Always pointing towards an obscure rumour and blaming Freemasonry for it.

I believe that perhaps these new anti-masons that are former Freemasons, initially joined the fraternity for the wrong reasons, when they discovered they couldn't do what ever it was they wanted to do they quit, or if they were discovered by the rest, they were expelled, and thus grew a hatred for being expelled and now wish to paint Masonry in a negative light. But that's just a possible scenario I think.

Originally posted by Americanist
And perhaps with your trust in God you'll figure out exactly the reason for your choices, why you're part of the Freemasons, and what you and your friends embedded in the organization can do about it.

OK, if you think of ATS as a court room, and a particular discussion in a thread to be a trial, you will see my frustration. I am the accused. I stand accused of being part of an evil group that allegedly has ties to the banking cartels of the Rothschild's, and the like. Now first, you have to prove (beyond a shadow of a doubt, or on ATS just show a sliver of proof) that the Rothschild are evil. I don't know them personally and I have no evidence that they are, but I am willing to concede for the sake of argument that they are. (my conspiracy side tells me that anyone with that much money and power can't be all good)

So now you as the accuser has the job of proving (with evidence) that somehow the group (Freemasonry) has ties to the evil banking cartels and is indeed doing nefarious things as Freemasons. So here I sit on the stand eagerly awaiting exhibit A. Your opening statement is filled with bold accusations and sensational claims. But if you fail to prove them, you will end up with large amounts of Egg on your face. You will loose the trial.

Your up Mr. Prosecutor.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
When you talk about Aleister Crowley like you knew him, you didnt.
I lived for years in Romney Marsh, next to Hastings.
I have even been to where the evil culprit used to live.
Make a trip and go to Hastings and research your self in person....
Talk to people.

Actually, I have. Including his grandson, who is a jazz musician.

Crowley lived in Hastings at the end of his life, long after the yellow journalism craze that made him famous. While in Hastings, the old man spent his time reading, writing, listening to Mozart, and smoking his pipe out on the front porch. Hardly a scandalous existence.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
When you talk about Aleister Crowley like you knew him, you didnt.
I lived for years in Romney Marsh, next to Hastings.
I have even been to where the evil culprit used to live.
Make a trip and go to Hastings and research your self in person....
Talk to people.

Actually, I have. Including his grandson, who is a jazz musician.

Crowley lived in Hastings at the end of his life, long after the yellow journalism craze that made him famous. While in Hastings, the old man spent his time reading, writing, listening to Mozart, and smoking his pipe out on the front porch. Hardly a scandalous existence.

But what was in the pipe! Scandalous indeed!

I haven't been following the thread because people should be free, given all the information available, to make up their minds. I am not here to be maligned for suggesting young men think seriously before joining any group that excludes others based on sex.

There was some consternation earlier of use of the word pussified.
I will tell you why I chose that word, though I am sure many don't care.
In my humble estimation, this is a little gay...

It has been said that there are five relationships a man can have with his fellowman:
1. With his father.
2. With his brother.
3. With his son.
4. With his friend.
5. With his ruler.
When a man adheres to the principles of the Star of Fellowship and recognizes that his relationships should be built on righteous living, he will be a fit piece of timer for the celestial Lodge above.

It is queer. And I don't mean strange.

And that last part... a little "religious" or as preposterous as any speculations about an afterlife so, I think you cannot be a Mason and also claim to be an atheist, as some have done.

Though you may call yourself a "tomato" it does not make you one.

I also don't feel the OP's question was one of genuine curiosity. I think his mind was already made up.
This has become The Freemason Thread and why I don't visit as often as you'd like me to.
When I feel like arguing with someone I will come back and read some of your comments.
Again...addressed to no one in particular. Mostly because I can't remember your names.

I can't deny a terrible suspicion however that members of this club called Masons...who readily admit to only helping others succeed
helps others rise to power, for the express purpose of incorporating them in a master plan, used to control and own the hearts and minds, more importantly the cravings, trends and appetites, of non-masons, (ie Americans and from there the world) from behind the scenes....
Making them buy (and need to buy)
whatever THEY, and THEIR LODGE BROTHERS, are selling.

See Builderberg group and Illuminati Members.
See threads on Corporatism, and NWO
While everyone else is footloose and fancy free - they do not take their eye off the ball.

i.e.making them BUY
By using subliminal, deceptive, state of the art...advertising.

i.e.giving them no choice but to BUY
By creating monopolies, under different names.

i.e. Creating the need to BUY

a) DRUGS Put clever ads for every little condition on TV, so they think they need prescription drugs.
b) PRISONS Get people to hate and fear immigrants, so they think they need privatized prisons.
c) BANKS Make people require banks so corp can use their money while they are not using it.
d) WAR Selling munitions, tanks gathering dust? Start yourself a good war.
With all these oilmen in the fold, get Arab buddies to start a war, blame Iraqis and topple
that sumabich, Saddam.

With the right connections, you can pass laws to create favorable situations and offer advantages to corporations that do not benefit, and may even harm American consumers:
ATT attempting to eliminate class action suits,
GOP trying to pass TORT reform,
Supreme court allowing CORPS. to donate to election campaigns.

We could go on ...
Don't you smell an agenda?
But then this IS a conspiracy website.
We could be smelling the BS I am full of.
You should decide.

Who is connected enough to orchestrate this large a plan but a cabal of the worlds most powerful men?
They didn't get there being stupid. They got there being unscrupulous, and traitors to the human race.
But then the devil never promised us a rose garden.

Beware the deceivers.

The solution is simpler than we thought...
People must turn dis-organized chaos... into (at least and first)...organized chaos.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
And that last part... a little "religious" or as preposterous as any speculations about an afterlife so, I think you cannot be a Mason and also claim to be an atheist, as some have done.

Who specifically has claimed this?

reply to post by rusethorcain


If you think that brotherly love is gay, then I guess I have no rebuttal. That's your opinion. Although there are a few former marines in my lodge who would love to debate that fact with you fact to face I am sure. Going through life being homophobic must be a real challenge.

and no, an atheist cannot be a mason. I know some who would make great masons, but that is found out before initiation.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Americanist
And perhaps with your trust in God you'll figure out exactly the reason for your choices, why you're part of the Freemasons, and what you and your friends embedded in the organization can do about it.

OK, if you think of ATS as a court room, and a particular discussion in a thread to be a trial, you will see my frustration. I am the accused. I stand accused of being part of an evil group that allegedly has ties to the banking cartels of the Rothschild's, and the like. Now first, you have to prove (beyond a shadow of a doubt, or on ATS just show a sliver of proof) that the Rothschild are evil. I don't know them personally and I have no evidence that they are, but I am willing to concede for the sake of argument that they are. (my conspiracy side tells me that anyone with that much money and power can't be all good)

So now you as the accuser has the job of proving (with evidence) that somehow the group (Freemasonry) has ties to the evil banking cartels and is indeed doing nefarious things as Freemasons. So here I sit on the stand eagerly awaiting exhibit A. Your opening statement is filled with bold accusations and sensational claims. But if you fail to prove them, you will end up with large amounts of Egg on your face. You will loose the trial.

Your up Mr. Prosecutor.

I'm not a prosecutor first off. Secondly, final judgement is reserved for subsequent periods of evolution. That being said... It is often referred to as the victors forging their own facts as history is written. With enough accumulated wealth to feed the World several times over, presenting a thorough and indisputable case against a faction or group at this level is counter-productive to one's health. Not only is it overly time consuming, but in such situations... It will leave you six feet under. You're right, it hasn't turned out good as if their ability to wage destruction on nations isn't indication enough.

I've done my homework. I've saved little tidbits along the way. My journey gave me hints at banking, drug/ human trafficking, widespread manipulation by the media, and the art of war. For you to set forth on the right path, you might have to step outside your brotherly comfort zone. It takes keen eyes to dissect an entwinement. Take our Universe for example.

To start off with... Delve into banking and the oligarchs who run the current monetary system. Continue with the drug trade and ownership of related shipping companies. Keep tabs on the fortunes of traffickers and speculative traders who built the power structure. Next filter out the major media moguls. When you've had nearly all you can stand... Turn to the root causes and funding opportunities of our war efforts.

If you're unable to locate mainstream information along the way, direct blame towards a masked society where facts are suppressed, 'secrets' are kept secret, and brothers hide behind closed doors. Makes the task of prosecuting nearly impossible, yet leads us back to common motives... Power and greed.

Eggs are the last thing the two of us need to be concerned with. Loosing our shirts with the rest of society... More cause for alarm.

reply to post by Americanist


I just think you have the wrong boogyman. You want to put masons at the root of all this and they have zero to do with it. You need to understand what we are first and foremost. Once you have done that, you can look for the real bad man. yes, banking enslaving us to credit, and the drug trade bringing in piles and piles of untraceable cash to groups of evil men happens every day. What can you do about it? live debt free.

But blame the banks for banking, and the CIA for drugs, leave the masons out of it. They have no idea what you are talking about.

reply to post by network dude


"Freemasons are shunned by the Vatican. Catholics are forbidden to become Freemasons. They offer the KOC as a replacement."

If the information serves me correct:

In 1983 Vatican canon law 2335 was replaced by canon law 1374: "One who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or moderates such an association, however, is to be punished with an interdict"

Same year Cardinal Benedict made a statement to go with that new law, due to the confusion on the Vatican stance on Freemasonry. Law 2335 stated a catholic would be excommunicated if he joins Freemasonry. But 1374 states if you join a group that plots against the church you will have a penalty. Nothing about excommunication or Freemasonry. Benedict then stated if you join masonry you might not receive Holy communion, trying to pass that off as excommunication. The difference is if you are only denied communion, 2335 says you are banned from the church. The new law has effect on high level Catholics.
An Italian Paulist priest has become a member of the Masons, joining the group in a ceremony attended by about 40 people at the Masonic headquarters at Piazza del Gesu in Rome.
Father Rosario Francesco Esposito dismissed the Church ban on membership in the Masonic lodge, saying that it is “a thing of the past.”
Catholic Bishops and Cardinals have been filmed at Bohemian Grove conducting what looks like Black Mass.

Catholic Church has pagan/ masonic sybolism throughout. Egyption Obelisk at vatican city. (male phallos, Osiris bodypart). Vatican Dome (female womb, Isis). This parallels the ones in Washington and City of London.

Originally posted by Hespian
Catholic Bishops and Cardinals have been filmed at Bohemian Grove conducting what looks like Black Mass.

I would interested in seeing this films. Can you provide a link?

Catholic Church has pagan/ masonic sybolism throughout. Egyption Obelisk at vatican city. (male phallos, Osiris bodypart). Vatican Dome (female womb, Isis). This parallels the ones in Washington and City of London.

The obelisk is not a Masonic emblem and no where does one appear in the Blue Lodge, neither is the dome a Masonic emblem or symbol.

reply to post by Hespian


I am not sure the word has filtered down through the ranks. But I believe that shunned is an appropriate term given the history and circumstances.

I will have to make a special point to attend mass and ask the priest about the new views. In fact, I have a good friend who is in the KOC and very active in his church. I will ask him to find out, then I can skip the visit.

Cult means knowlege, intelectual, the O means the cicle. Ocult means intelectual knowlege of how things evolve around god, around very far not even close. Problem is too much ocult and you lose your human side. You give it up for knowlege, something that should never happen. You start being fake to your self and to the people around you. You begin to be polite and nice but without really meaning it, without feeling it, some give up the self for knowlege, all the way to the red side without the blue.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Americanist

 

I just think you have the wrong boogyman. You want to put masons at the root of all this and they have zero to do with it. You need to understand what we are first and foremost. Once you have done that, you can look for the real bad man. yes, banking enslaving us to credit, and the drug trade bringing in piles and piles of untraceable cash to groups of evil men happens every day. What can you do about it? live debt free.

But blame the banks for banking, and the CIA for drugs, leave the masons out of it. They have no idea what you are talking about.

Use of the word boogyman implies this type of individual wouldn't exist. I would kindly ask you to rephrase, but you being somewhat careless, you'd probably screw it up again. Freemasons can be categorized in one of three ways:

Culprits, in bed with culprits, or handing culprits a free pass.


As it stands... These "boogymen" don't get to the top of their game without having connections to the brotherhood. At least common sense dictates. Your upper echelon has been a who's who of oligarchs.

Don't have an idea, or don't want to have an idea?