Freemasonry, secret or not?

reply to post by Americanist


I think that this discussion will get nowhere due to the fact that everything that is been posted is being ridiculed.
The only defence they say is "ah that, yes, thats not real".
But to everything.
This is why I retire from this thread, waste of time trying to debate with people who took an oath.
Thanks for posting info and being involved in the discussion.

reply to post by network dude


Look Network Dude, you cant prove that whats being posted is not true just by saying it's not true.
You know I would love to see you prove that, and then I would shut up about it.
Honestly, I would love to see the freemasonry doors open.
I know that will not be the case though, the cult will remain secret, because they have something to hide which will not please the general public to say the least.
There is no point for me to carry on debating, I can only come to this conclusion.

This is one little proverb which I think defines the freemasons;

'The crafty rabbit has three different entrances to it's lair'

reply to post by Americanist


for future reference, I will give you an example of how adults converse on the interwebs.

this is a fictitious conversation, so don't panic and think you will fall off the edge.

Americanist: "Hey Network Dude, the world is flat."

Network Dude: "no, actually it's quite round. Have any proof to offer?"

Americanist: "Sure do! Here is my proof!!!"

Network Dude: Well, that sure is an interesting link. But I think you missed the point of that link. It seems it's about a level playing field and not actually a flat Earth, but thanks for at least spending the 4.3 nanoseconds it takes to attempt to prove a point. In the mean time, look at this. It appears to be quite round. I sure have enjoyed our discussion."

Americanist: " Wow Network Dude, you sure are smart. Knowing all about the earth and junk."


while it was a dramatization, it is complete with linky linkys. Or as we call it in the big world, evidence.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


yep, and you along with your alter ego can go through life believing the bad man is to blame for all your problems and never ever take responsibility for them yourself. that is until you enter the real world. It's a harsh place, but you will get used to it. Blissful and dark is no way to be little rabbit.

Originally posted by Americanist
Perhaps it is my fault for not clearly separating.

Duly noted.

Allow me to try this once more in a brand new bracketed approach.

The obelisk doesn't appear on my box of Chex Mix either, but that's irrelevant like the linkage you attempt to make between particular lodges (item two) and an aspect (might I add supplementary symbol - item one still part of the same sentence structure referring back to the obelisk) of Freemasonry.

Your point still does present any coherent arguement as you obviously have little understanding between Masonic symbolism, structure or relevancy.

I knew this, but I didn't realize how complicated such a solid distinction between two items would become for you. What I really think happened? I think you stretched yourself in order to make a tangent argument as part of an ill-fated effort to steer the original poster off course.

There is an obvious distinction, otherwise you would be able to cite ritual or a portion of the degrees where obelisks appear. This point has been discussed previously in a 600+ post thread in which no one was able to demonstrate that obelisks are Masonic. They are however Egyptian which revival in the early 19th century lead them to become more prevelant in many aspects of society.

reply to post by Americanist

Can you give me some well-known BG and Mason members? What is a ball park number of BG-Mason members?

And actually there was supposed to be much more to the monument, but I think weight played a factor. I am not the architect of it. Research about Robert Mills.

reply to post by Dr Cosma

What makes me think you don't know? You're not a member. I never said you don't know Masons personally, but your knowledge of the Craft makes me believe otherwise.

Someone's religious preferences is not my business. Freemasonry requires a man to be a man of some kind of Faith.

reply to post by Dr Cosma

Are you just speculating or do you have names of those of the Royal Family that were Freemasons and involved with the opium wars?

Plus, lets a say a man was involved in drug trade and was also a Freemason. This isn't an indication that Freemasonry is behind drug trade. It is an indication that the man is corrupted and I personally would want him not involved in the Lodge.

You want to know about Freemasonry? Here is what we are. As you can see we are evil people with a hidden agenda. Seriously if anybody doubts what it is all about and want to the truth for yourself then go as k one to be one. Nobody will make you stay against your will. Plenty of people in the lodge will be more then happy to explain things to you in greater detail then I care to do on a forum.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as honor, and that a man has a responsibility to act with honor in everything he does?
Freemasonry teaches that principle. We believe that a life not founded on honor is hollow and empty - that a man who acts without honor is less than a man.

Do you believe in God?
No atheist can become a member of a Freemasonry Lodge. Masons do not care what your individual faith is that is a question between you and your God - but we do require that a man believe in a Supreme Being.

Are you willing to allow others the same right to their own beliefs that you insist on yourself?
Masons insists on toleration - on the right of each person to think for himself in religious, social and political matters.

Do you believe that you have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than you found it?
Masonry teaches that each man has a duty not only to himself but to others. We must do what we can to make the world a better place. Whether that means cleaning up the environment, working on civic projects, or helping children to walk or read or see - the world should be a better place because we have passed through it.

Do you believe that it is not only more blessed to give than to receive, it's also more fun?
Masons are involved with the problems and needs of others because we know it gives each of us a good feeling - unlike any other - to help. Much of our help is given anonymously. We're not after gratitude, we're more than rewarded by that feeling which comes from knowing we have helped another person overcome some adversity, so that their life can go on.

Are you willing to give help to your Brothers when they need it, and to accept their help when you need it?
Masonry is mutual help. Not just financial help (although that's there too) but help in the sense of being there when needed, giving support, lending a sympathetic ear.

Do you feel that there's something more to life than just financial success?
Masons know that self-development is more precious than money in the bank or social position or political power. Those things often accompany self-development, but they are no substitute for it. Masons work at building their lives and character, just as a carpenter works at building a house.

Do you believe that a person should strive to be a good citizen and that we have a moral duty to be true to the country in which we live?
Masons believe that a country is strong so long as freedom, equality, and the opportunity for human development is afforded to all. A Mason is true to his government and its ideals. He supports its laws and authority when both are just and equitably applied. We uphold and maintain the principles of good government, and oppose every influence that would divide it in a degrading manner.

Do you agree that man should show compassion for others, that goodness of heart is among the most important of human values?
Masons do. We believe in a certain reverence for living things, a tenderness toward people who suffer. A loving kindness for our fellow man, and a desire to do right because it is right. Masonry teaches that although all men are fallible and capable of much wrong, when they discover the goodness of heart, they have found the true essence of virtue. Masonry helps men see their potential for deep goodness and virtue.

Do you believe that men should strive to live a brotherly life?
Masons see brotherhood as a form of wisdom, a sort of bond that holds men together - a private friendship that tells us we owe it to each other to be just in our dealings and to refuse to speak evil of each other. Masons believe a man should maintain an attitude of good will, and promote unity and harmony in his relations with one another, his family, and his community. Masons call this way of life believing in the Brotherhood of Man. It really means that every Mason makes it his duty to follow the golden rule. This is why Masonry has been called one the of greatest forces for good in the world.


Edit: If you answered yes to these questions you would be a damn good man I would be proud to call my brother.

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reply to post by Arcot


Wow. What a load of rubbish!

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by Arcot

 

Wow. What a load of rubbish!

Whats a load of rubbish is the three points you have separating the U from the S in your avatar.
The three points is what 'La Camorra' uses to identify themselves, 'La Camorra' being organized crim in Naples, who were formed by 'La Garduña' from Spain, who worked for the Inquisition, who were the bad boys of the vatican, who are in bed with.....the mickey mouse club.
Sorry I butted in.

One more contradiction;

Masonry endorses the position that whether one be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, only those who are Masons will survive in “God’s Eternity.” However, the gospel teaches that those who “know not God,” and those who ”obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus” shall be eternally lost (2 Thess. 1:8-9). To ”know God” one must “keep his commandments” (1 Jn. 2:3). One who is not a Christian -- bought by the blood of Christ - is lost, whether a Mason or not (Eph. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 Tim. 2:3-6). Masonry deceives the hearts of men and gives them a false hope of eternal life.

Have you resigned yet?
You must be at least thinking about it?
I meen, you did say that if you found a contradiction in 'One' of the three holy books, you will resign.
It was'nt me who wrote that....
I have found two contradictions, one in the Bible and the other in the Qu'ran.
Ah, I cant wait for the reply on this one.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
I have found two contradictions, one in the Bible and the other in the Qu'ran.
Ah, I cant wait for the reply on this one.

If two is all you've found, you can't be looking very hard!

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Masonry endorses the position that whether one be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, only those who are Masons will survive in “God’s Eternity.”

Show me where this is stated.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


so I guess you are of the belief that only one who has given his life to Jesus Christ may enter heaven? No other religious beliefs will be there. Is that about right?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Masonry endorses the position that whether one be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, only those who are Masons will survive in “God’s Eternity.”

Show me where this is stated.

Silly Augustus, this is the new internet generation. Proof is but a word that is an obstacle. One need not source their words anymore. Just open the old pie hole and let it fly. oh, and it's all fact. .......as far as you know.

Hey, what do you know, another contradiction;

FREEMASONRY SAYS:
5. MASONS ARE THE SOURCE OF TRUE LIGHT
“In Masonry, the darkness, which envelops the mind of the uninitiated [the non-Mason], is removed
by the effulgence of Masonic Light. Masons are appropriately called the ‘Sons of Light.’”7
“Freemasons are emphatically called ‘Sons of Light,’ because they are, or at least entitled to be, in
possession of the true meaning of the symbol; while the profane or uninitiated [non-Mason] who
have not received this knowledge, by a parity of expression, are said to be in darkness.” 8
“Worshipful Master – The head and chief of the lodge, the source of light, of knowledge and
instruction in Masonry.”9
THE BIBLE SAYS:
5. JESUS IS THE SOURCE OF TRUE LIGHT
“…He (Jesus) said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever FOLLOWS ME will never walk in
darkness, but will have the LIGHT of life.” John 8:12 (NIV)
“…Christ will give you light.” Ephesians 5:14 (TLB)

No I am not a christian, I am simply posting the contradictions some members seemed to be talking about.
I love the replies.
It's not me whos in the 'Dark'.....

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Hey, what do you know, another contradiction;

FREEMASONRY SAYS:
5. MASONS ARE THE SOURCE OF TRUE LIGHT
“In Masonry, the darkness, which envelops the mind of the uninitiated [the non-Mason], is removed
by the effulgence of Masonic Light. Masons are appropriately called the ‘Sons of Light.’”7
“Freemasons are emphatically called ‘Sons of Light,’ because they are, or at least entitled to be, in
possession of the true meaning of the symbol; while the profane or uninitiated [non-Mason] who
have not received this knowledge, by a parity of expression, are said to be in darkness.” 8
“Worshipful Master – The head and chief of the lodge, the source of light, of knowledge and
instruction in Masonry.”9
THE BIBLE SAYS:
5. JESUS IS THE SOURCE OF TRUE LIGHT
“…He (Jesus) said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever FOLLOWS ME will never walk in
darkness, but will have the LIGHT of life.” John 8:12 (NIV)
“…Christ will give you light.” Ephesians 5:14 (TLB)

I'm not sure what you're trying say. In the Christian mythos, Jesus is the Logos, i.e., the Word. This has plenty of implications in the mystery schools among the initiated.

Dammit, another contradiction;

FREEMASONRY SAYS:
11. WITHHOLD THE TRUTH
“To disclose the Absolute Truth never profits the common people.”
“The danger is not merely in violating truth, but in telling the truth."

THE BIBLE SAYS:
11. PRESENT THE TRUTH
“Then you will know the truth, and the TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.” John 8:32 (NIV)
“Therefore each of you must PUT OFF FALSEHOOD and speak TRUTHFULLY with his
neighbor…” Ephesians 4:25 (NIV)

Maybe i'll start looking in the Torah next or carry on with the Bible maybe switch to the Qu'ran later, you know, just to mention a few little contradictions, nothing major....

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Dammit, another contradiction;

FREEMASONRY SAYS:
11. WITHHOLD THE TRUTH
“To disclose the Absolute Truth never profits the common people.”
“The danger is not merely in violating truth, but in telling the truth."

Actually, that's not what Freemasonry says at all. Masonry specifically states:

Truth is a divine attribute, and the foundation of every virtue. To be good and true are the first lessons we are taught in Masonry. On this theme we contemplate, and by its dictates endeavor to regulate our conduct; hence, while influenced by this principle, hypocrisy and deceit are unknown amongst us; sincerity and plain dealing distinguishes us; and heart and tongue join in promoting each other's welfare, and rejoicing in each other's prosperity.

More contradictions anyone?
Ketchup?
Resignation papers?

Concerning the Masonic Potentate, the Bible says:
“….JESUS CHRIST…who is the blessed and ONLY POTENTATE…”
1 Timothy 6: 14-15
In the first degree of Freemasonry, as an Entered Apprentice, one is required to place a curse on
himself and swear an oath. The swearing of this oath (“I do most solemnly and sincerely promise
and swear, binding myself under no less penalty that to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn
out by the roots…so help me God..” is in direct disobedience to the Biblical command “Do not
swear at all;…simply let your “Yes” be “yes” and your ‘No,” “No”; ANYTHING BEYOND THIS
COMES FROM THE EVIL ONE.” (Matthew 5:34-37). One of the first things that one is
required to do to become a Freemason is to disobey God and break one of His commands.
If someone embraces the teachings of Freemasonry, he thus rejects some of the teachings of Jesus
Christ. Concerning anyone who rejects Jesus or His teaching, Jesus says:
“…He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me.” Luke 10:16
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; …for I did not speak of
my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.” ,John.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
FREEMASONRY SAYS:
11. WITHHOLD THE TRUTH
“To disclose the Absolute Truth never profits the common people.”
“The danger is not merely in violating truth, but in telling the truth."

How about learning to cite your external sources in a proper manner so that we can review the material in full?