Freemasonry, secret or not?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by Sly1one

 

As others have said, you can't really teach someone who doesn't want to learn. That's why Masons don't invite people to join, you have to come to us of your own free will & accord. You have to have the thirst before you can drink.

But then we have people like you, who want to learn, but don't meet some of the other requirements of Freemasonry. I understand your frustration. All I can say is that we've got some of those requirements in place for a reason... it isn't that you're less a person, or not worthy of learning it... it's that we feel to get what we're trying to teach, you have to come in with these beliefs, because that's what we're basing the teaching upon.

Does that make any sense?

Yes that makes complete sense however I know for a fact I am capable of learning "on the fence" so to speak. I actually find it easier to learn "on the fence" A) because there is a better view (lol) and B) because when you subscribe to no knowledge it opens your mind for enlightenment. Surely this is a concept the masons understand?

I guess ultimately what I'm saying is someone who has the thirst for knowledge shouldn't be denied that knowledge because there is an assumption by masons that because of their "lack of belief" they won't be able to comprehend the lessons being taught.

I have for most of my life tried to deny all belief systems so I can truly understand ALL belief systems from scratch with an empty cup mentality. I don't claim I know 100% there is one god or many gods but I can entertain the ideas/theories long enough to gain significant enlightment "without" having to subscribe fully to the belief in such.

Also again as I said earlier in my post, it seems backwards as if the cart is before the horse.

Maybe its not the belief that is needed before the knowledge, but the knowledge before the belief, unless masonry is all about blind faith?

If you were to teach to all what you know, maybe belief wouldn't have to rely solely on "blind faith", and for once people could make educated logical decisions in their beliefs pertaining to god.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Sly1one

 

Josh put it nicely. We have things in place to help teach the lessons and make them unforgettable. But they are life lessons. The same ones that the Bible teaches. In fact, the very same ones. But you don't have to be a mason to practice charity, brotherly love, and friendship. A good mason will see a situation that needs help, find a way to help that situation without anyone knowing that he did it. So all of the sudden, there is assistance that was badly needed and nobody has to feel indebted to anyone. Obviously there is more to it than that, but at the core, that is what we do. Your spiritual journey can only be achieved by you and your heart. Should you find your way to God, then I suggest joining our group. If for nothing else, to know the truth. The lazy comment is for all that sit back and whine about us keeping secrets, but not get off the couch to find out for themselves. Good luck.

With ties to organized crime and the banking cartel... Your own track record would honestly nix Brotherly Love. People don't know what they don't know even though it's mandatory to be present where knowledge is concerned. I don't recall having to join a frat in college other than for networking. Think of your true role as a public school minus the budget problems. You guys do have the means to tip the balance for good, but your reasons for not doing so have become a glaring error at this point. You have little chance of fooling the mass. To those reading this... Step it up or get lost. Every play has an ending.

Originally posted by Americanist
You guys do have the means to tip the balance for good, but your reasons for not doing so have become a glaring error at this point.

What do you mean by 'tip the balance for good'?

Originally posted by Sly1oneMaybe its not the belief that is needed before the knowledge, but the knowledge before the belief, unless masonry is all about blind faith?

I'm not saying that Masonry is a religion, but aren't all religions based on blind faith? Isn't spirituality in any form, be it organized religion or not, essentially blind faith?

I was agnostic for a long time and struggled with the idea of God, primarily because of how he's portrayed by organized religion. I eventually decided that I did believe there was something out there greater than ourselves, and decided that I didn't really need to put too detailed a label on it. You'll find that Masonry has a long history of members who were Deists... still believing in something greater, but not having any specific belief in a "hands-on" or anthropomophisized God. (You know, the guy with the white beard...)

But one of the things I love most about Masonry is that we don't talk about religion in lodge. Because ultimately, none of us can really know for certain who's faith is most correct until we're dead anyway. So why bicker about it?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Americanist
You guys do have the means to tip the balance for good, but your reasons for not doing so have become a glaring error at this point.

What do you mean by 'tip the balance for good'?

What do you think it means? You must have some life experience to put 'good' in context... Fire away.

Originally posted by Americanist
What do you think it means?

I was hoping that you could explain what you meant in detail.

reply to post by JoshNorton

But one of the things I love most about Masonry is that we don't talk about religion in lodge. Because ultimately, none of us can really know for certain who's faith is most correct until we're dead anyway. So why bicker about it?

There's a prime example of how to never lose at debate. As a Freemason... What degree are you? I find it odd you couple your practice with blind faith while capping knowledge in our lifetime. What you've effectively done is regurgitate what sounds and appears pleasing to boost your own standing amongst men.

To answer the question asked of me... Good is a moral compass pointed directly at Truth.

(continuing from my previous post)

The highest order of Truth is a Sacrifice.
Love is God and has never been a stranger.
To put forth and gather up Understanding is Life.

reply to post by Americanist


I suppose I could ask for some proof of the accusation that a worldwide masonic conspiracy existed like with sources and junk, but I know already that that is too much to ask on this forum. Any bonehead form anywhere can say anything they want, then show a you tube video of Leo Zagami or Some Ultra cult church garbage about balphamet and masons sacrificing virgins at the blood altar and viola, all the proof a on sided thumper needs. But in all this tripe, amazingly there are a few who decide to engage the rest of their brain cells and see if perhaps there is another side to the story. those are the ones who come to us asking for a bit more information. ignorance is bliss. be blissful my friend.

Originally posted by Americanist
To answer the question asked of me... Good is a moral compass pointed directly at Truth.

If that is as detailed as you are going to get then all I want to ask you isthe following.

If you expect Masons to 'tip the balance to good'-good in your definition being truth-when we explain our viewpoints you seem to automatically find them to be perfidious. So, how can we 'tip the balance' when you do not believe us to begin with?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Americanist

 

I suppose I could ask for some proof of the accusation that a worldwide masonic conspiracy existed like with sources and junk, but I know already that that is too much to ask on this forum. Any bonehead form anywhere can say anything they want, then show a you tube video of Leo Zagami or Some Ultra cult church garbage about balphamet and masons sacrificing virgins at the blood altar and viola, all the proof a on sided thumper needs. But in all this tripe, amazingly there are a few who decide to engage the rest of their brain cells and see if perhaps there is another side to the story. those are the ones who come to us asking for a bit more information. ignorance is bliss. be blissful my friend.

Mockery isn't a very flattering trait. I'll chalk it up to you being facetious for now. What's interesting here... Apparently you know more on how to orchestrate doubts than you do the makings of your own brotherhood.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Americanist
To answer the question asked of me... Good is a moral compass pointed directly at Truth.

If that is as detailed as you are going to get then all I want to ask you isthe following.

If you expect Masons to 'tip the balance to good'-good in your definition being truth-when we explain our viewpoints you seem to automatically find them to be perfidious. So, how can we 'tip the balance' when you do not believe us to begin with?

I imagine anyone can change with the right motivation.

Originally posted by Americanist
I imagine anyone can change with the right motivation.

So what exactly would motivate you to this change?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Americanist
I imagine anyone can change with the right motivation.

So what exactly would motivate you to this change?

That was meant for the brotherhood. As for me... All you have to do is read up.

reply to post by Americanist


so, your not going to produce anything that remotely resembles proof? Ok then. Off to church you go. Don't forget the blinders.

Originally posted by Americanist
That was meant for the brotherhood. As for me... All you have to do is read up.

Your are honestly being far to cryptic to follow. Maybe you should explain in detail what change your are looking for and how you envision it to take place.

Originally posted by Americanist
What degree are you?

See, you've just shown your ignorance. Side degrees are meaningless in terms of "rank". I'm a 32° in the Scottish Rite, but more importantly, I'm an officer in my blue lodge as a 3° Master Mason. (I'm also an officer in a Scottish Rite side organization, but that's irrelevant as well.)

reply to post by Dr Cosma

Exactly. If you have enough courage to join I'm sure that you can be part of the monopoly too. I never joined but my grandfather was a 32nd degree and I'm sure he got a lot of contracts by being a mason. Its not all fun and games and moral high ground. BTW, he was worth $20 million when he died. He ran pipelines in the Middle East and in the US.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Americanist
What degree are you?

See, you've just shown your ignorance. Side degrees are meaningless in terms of "rank". I'm a 32° in the Scottish Rite, but more importantly, I'm an officer in my blue lodge as a 3° Master Mason. (I'm also an officer in a Scottish Rite side organization, but that's irrelevant as well.)

The order is relevant... That and the fact you've made it to Master Mason. I ask partly because my grandfather found his way to the Scottish Rite. He was also in the armed forces stationed in Pearl Harbor at the time it was attacked. I could say your jumping to conclusions means you haven't retained many lessons.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Americanist
That was meant for the brotherhood. As for me... All you have to do is read up.

Your are honestly being far to cryptic to follow. Maybe you should explain in detail what change your are looking for and how you envision it to take place.

One page... 5 blogs. It's spelled out and far from being cryptic.