Global Warming is not only NOT a hoax, but it is about 10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare.

Dan Miller in the video is constructive in his idea of pre-emptive action. But some of the logic elsewhere is flawed, where he highlights the gradual rise of CO2 over a matter of decades really, allowing the presumption of man made "global warming" That is what we are constantly told anyway. later he will say "It did happen before" with the further presumption that we weren't around then. That then is talking about two different philosophies as if they were the same thing. That cannot be be, Climate change by reason of a rise in surface temperature did occur before, "Global warming" as a man made product IS a hoax. Furthermore, increases of CO2 is a susequence of a rise in surface temperature, not the cause. More flaws in the logic is allowing,(or admitting) the use of sulphers to reflect sunlight and the accompanied hazards and unknowns, while they would only be as temporary as the pollution he mentioned in questioning, wtf, this is logic all over the place in freefall. They really do have to address the problem of climate change, (if this really is a longtime scenario) from the point of view that,
(1) This climate change will be different in severity from the last one, in way or another, and bearing in mind that,
(2) the earth is a different, later stage in it's evolution.
(3) The sun is at a different, later stage in it's evolution.
(4) The earth rotation is slower.
(5) the sun is/will get hotter.
(6) the whole solar system is in a different area in space.

Plus a million more questions to address.

Regardless of whether or not global climate change is a hoax or man-made or part of a natural cycle, shouldn't we at least stop TPTB or Corporate Interests or whoever from using the debate as an excuse to keep strip-mining and clear-cutting the earth?

Couldn't we be actively looking for implementable ways to generate power that are as efficient and environmentally responsible as possible even if the only reason was as a challenge to human intellect?

Nobody in their right mind would debate the environmental impact of massive 'screw-ups' like the gulf oil leak. Shouldn't the risk of those events be enough for people to say "You know, regardless of the truthiness of global-warming / climate change, maybe we should figure out a way to get our cars to run that *doesn't* lead to massive dead zones in the ocean."

0.02

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Sorry to buff your claims of a the Medieval Warming Period which i find it laughably but dont or did you noticed that during the the Medieval ages there were wars? oh and how do expect those knights and pawns in there armors had water during there combat?

edit on 2-11-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

WOW...so your evidence to claim there was no Medieval Warm Period is because knights used armor?...

This MUST be a joke....right?... Or are the AGW mob really that...humm, how should I put it?....

The armor it Shows how much you know about the human body during heatwaves or during a conflict war zones under going extreme pressure, with heavy armors like these
www.grace-collection.com...

So again can you prove me the cliam of Medieval Warm Period? i guess not, trusting the chinese sources its pretty laughably for your global warming period.


And also please tell do me why is the ice growing and not melting like your claims are saying?

And how wikipedia also became part of the indoctrinating of the ignorant masses... How they rewrote articles not allowing REAL scientists from posting the facts, and instead wikipedia has been one of the online websites which has tried to hide the truth...

The issue that I am particularly thinking about is "climate change" -- or global warming as it was once called (until the globe stopped warming, about a decade ago). Recently the Financial Post in Canada published an article by Lawrence Solomon, with this remarkable headline:

How Wikipedia's green doctor rewrote 5,428 climate articles.

Solomon draws attention to the online labors of one William M. Connolley, a Green Party activist and software engineer in Britain. Starting in February 2003, Connolley set to work on the Wikipedia site. I continue with a two-paragraph direct quote from Mr. Solomons article:

(Connolley) rewrote Wikipedias articles on global warming, on the greenhouse effect, on the instrumental temperature record, on the urban heat island, on climate models, on global cooling. On Feb. 14, he began to erase the Little Ice Age; on Aug. 11, the Medieval Warm Period. In October, he turned his attention to the hockey stick graph. He rewrote articles on the politics of global warming and on the scientists who were skeptical of the band (of climatologist activists). Richard Lindzen and Fred Singer, two of the worlds most distinguished climate scientists, were among his early targets, followed by others that the band (of activists) especially hated, such as Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, authorities on the Medieval Warm Period.

All told, Connolley created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles. His control over Wikipedia was greater still, however, through the role he obtained at Wikipedia as a website administrator, which allowed him to act with virtual impunity. When Connolley didnt like the subject of a certain article, he removed it -- more than 500 articles of various descriptions disappeared at his hand. When he disapproved of the arguments that others were making, he often had them barred -- over 2,000 Wikipedia contributors who ran afoul of him found themselves blocked from making further contributions. Acolytes whose writing conformed to Connolleys global warming views, in contrast, were rewarded with Wikipedias blessings. In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.
...

spectator.org...

Wikipedia has been one of the indoctrinating tools being used by the AGW religious fanatics to indoctrinate into people the lies about AGW...

It is very easy to indoctrinate people who have no idea about Climate Change and have never read any real scientific research papers which show the contrary to the AGW claims...

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
...
So again can you prove me the cliam of Medieval Warm Period? i guess not, trusting the chinese sources its pretty laughably for your global warming period.


And also please tell do me why is the ice growing and not melting like your claims are saying?

Kid...or are you drunk or something?... First of all what is laughable is the claim that because "knights used armor" then there couldn't have been a Medieval Warm Period...

I showed PEER REVIEWED PAPERS from all over the globe, not only China, and what have you to say?... Your claim that because knights wore armor there couldn't have been a Medieval Warm Period...

This is the kind of idiocy we must deal with when the AGW mob try to present evidence for their FALSE RELIGION...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
And how wikipedia also became part of the indoctrinating of the ignorant masses... How they rewrote articles not allowing REAL scientists from posting the facts, and instead wikipedia has been one of the online websites which has tried to hide the truth...

The issue that I am particularly thinking about is "climate change" -- or global warming as it was once called (until the globe stopped warming, about a decade ago). Recently the Financial Post in Canada published an article by Lawrence Solomon, with this remarkable headline:

How Wikipedia's green doctor rewrote 5,428 climate articles.

Solomon draws attention to the online labors of one William M. Connolley, a Green Party activist and software engineer in Britain. Starting in February 2003, Connolley set to work on the Wikipedia site. I continue with a two-paragraph direct quote from Mr. Solomon's article:

(Connolley) rewrote Wikipedias articles on global warming, on the greenhouse effect, on the instrumental temperature record, on the urban heat island, on climate models, on global cooling. On Feb. 14, he began to erase the Little Ice Age; on Aug. 11, the Medieval Warm Period. In October, he turned his attention to the hockey stick graph. He rewrote articles on the politics of global warming and on the scientists who were skeptical of the band (of climatologist activists). Richard Lindzen and Fred Singer, two of the worlds most distinguished climate scientists, were among his early targets, followed by others that the band (of activists) especially hated, such as Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, authorities on the Medieval Warm Period.

All told, Connolley created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles. His control over Wikipedia was greater still, however, through the role he obtained at Wikipedia as a website administrator, which allowed him to act with virtual impunity. When Connolley didnt like the subject of a certain article, he removed it -- more than 500 articles of various descriptions disappeared at his hand. When he disapproved of the arguments that others were making, he often had them barred -- over 2,000 Wikipedia contributors who ran afoul of him found themselves blocked from making further contributions. Acolytes whose writing conformed to Connolleys global warming views, in contrast, were rewarded with Wikipedias blessings. In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.
...

spectator.org...

Wikipedia has been one of the indoctrinating tools being used by the AGW religious fanatics to indoctrinate into people the lies about AGW...

It is very easy to indoctrinate people who have no idea about Climate Change and have never read any real scientific research papers which show the contrary to the AGW claims...

By comments you just made

Wikipedia has been one of the indoctrinating tools being used by the AGW religious fanatics to indoctrinate into people the lies about AGW...

It seems you support this nonsense of global warming and defend al gore in a strange way and your posting claims from american spectator.org ? lol that site? typical

reply to post by Wertdagf


It is simply amazing to me what is left out, hung out to dry ! The cycles the earth goes through, minimums, maximums and the who freakin cares anymoreums... I am really sick of the global warming debate. Nukes or plagues will be the death of us all...

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
It's official. The MWP has just been debunked by this convincing piece of evidence.


You know, I would think that they needed all that armour otherwise they would have gotten all slashed up by swords.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
...
So again can you prove me the cliam of Medieval Warm Period? i guess not, trusting the chinese sources its pretty laughably for your global warming period.


And also please tell do me why is the ice growing and not melting like your claims are saying?

Kid...or are you drunk or something?... First of all what is laughable is the claim that because "knights used armor" then there couldn't have been a Medieval Warm Period...

I showed PEER REVIEWED PAPERS from all over the globe, not only China, and what have you to say?... Your claim that because knights wore armor there couldn't have been a Medieval Warm Period...

This is the kind of idiocy we must deal with when the AGW mob try to present evidence for their FALSE RELIGION...

Stay on topic or i will alert a mod on your off topic comments

Kid...or are you drunk or something?...

Its also no surprising that your avoiding the issue of growing ice a reply i made a while ago.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

It seems you support this nonsense of global warming and defend al gore in a strange way and your posting claims from american spectator.org ? lol that site? typical

Now I know you must be drunk, or there must be something really wrong with you...

So I posted evidence that shows wikipedia has been rewritting articles to back the AGW scam, and you claim that I am supporting AGW/Global Warming?...

BTW, the fact that wikipedia has been doing this is known, and has been posted in many websites. Of course the AGW mob are either unawares of this, or you people just ignore it, like you do with any evidence that shows your AGW false religion is nothing more than a scam...

www.studentnewsdaily.com...

www.energy.probeinternational.org...

24ahead.com...

i could keep going, but anyone with any intelligence would understand by now how biased wikipedia is regarding this topic, and other left leaning topics...

Originally posted by mc_squared

Originally posted by Faiol
study a little about al gore and you will have to assume that global warming is a hoax, otherwise, there is something very wrong with that guy

Yeah because as we all know Al Gore invented global warming. He used his evil witchcraft powers to travel back in time 150 years ago and discover man made global warming - that devious bastard!

American Institute of Physics: The Discovery of Global Warming

congratulations, you just proved to be ignorant on the subject

I was talking about the politic that AL gore want to implement, that wont save the planet ... you can research that too .. but I will let you do that, since, there are a lot of threads already about it ... google youtube carbon trade

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Stay on topic or i will alert a mod on your off topic comments

I was on topic, who is offtopic and making stupid claims is you.

First of all, knights could not stay inside THEIR armor for long, and the fact that knights used armor does not refute the Medieval Warm Period.

You want to alert a mod? go ahead.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Its also no surprising that your avoiding the issue of growing ice a reply i made a while ago.

What?... growing ice?... What in the world are you talking about now?...

The one avoiding the facts are people like you.

You need to learn to make an intelligent argument if you want to participate in any serious discussion instead of coming up with an argument like "but the knights used armor, hence there was no Medieval Warm Period"... One thing has NOTHING to do with the other... Not to mention that knights were not in THEIR armor all day long...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



What about the fact Al gore is getting richer by all this global warming nonsense?
newsbusters.org...

newsbusters.org...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

something you should know back in the 90s Ignore the earth climate changes or cooling changes and all of sudden when al gore showed up the media somehow seems to care, by tele marketing our children about it and by using fear

remember the famed exploding heads ad about the carbons? the ad clearly shows that we are the problem.

And one last other thing
Its funny how the so called scientists are even avoiding the ice is growing subject matter
wattsupwiththat.com...

www.globalresearch.ca...
www.iceagenow.com...

Sure enough it was a quick job from planetsave.com and tried to dismiss the ice growing subject by using NASAs own data, which was proven false.
planetsave.com...

Originally posted by Faiol

Originally posted by mc_squared

Originally posted by Faiol
study a little about al gore and you will have to assume that global warming is a hoax, otherwise, there is something very wrong with that guy

Yeah because as we all know Al Gore invented global warming. He used his evil witchcraft powers to travel back in time 150 years ago and discover man made global warming - that devious bastard!

American Institute of Physics: The Discovery of Global Warming

congratulations, you just proved to be ignorant on the subject

I was talking about the politic that AL gore want to implement, that wont save the planet ... you can research that too .. but I will let you do that, since, there are a lot of threads already about it ... google youtube carbon trade

What people like MCsquare continue to not want to understand is that Arrhenius was wrong... He claimed that if the amount of atmospheric CO2 was cut by half temperatures would decrease by 4C-7C, but the thing is that we NOW know that for example during the Medieval Warm Period and Roman Warm Period temperatures were globally MUCH HIGHER THAN NOW, and atmospheric CO2 was 260ppm-290ppm...

We also know of other geological periods when the Earth was much warmer and atmospheric CO2 was lower, as well as periods when atmospheric CO2 was much higher and temperatures were cooler...

As it exists on Earth atmospheric CO2 does not cause the warming claimed by the AGW mob.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


So , care to explain the coldest winter we had? or the fact we snow saw in south america, middle east?

Are you going to claim that was caused by global warming to now?


Your still avoiding the issue of growing ice a reply i made a while ago.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


What the heck are you talking about?... When did I say that Al Gore is not getting richer?... Now you are changing the subject, going completely off tangent, and claiming I wrote things I have NEVER written...

Wikipedia is a known propagandist website of left leaning topics, such as AGW/Global Warming.

The Medieval Warm Period, and Roman Warm Periods were WARMER than at present, and atmospheric CO2 levels were LOWER than they are now. Not to mention that knights did use armor even during the Medieval Warm Period but they were not in their armor all day like you seem to think...

Learn to stay on topic, and please learn to make a concise, and intelligent argument.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
So since you must know everything then, care to explain the coolest winter we had? or the fact we snow saw in south america, middle east?

Are you going to claim that was caused by global warming to now?

Wow... You are really confused... Listen... for several years now, since I decided to start researching the AGW/Global Warming lies back in 2004-2005 I have found and posted dozens, upon dozens of peer-reviewed papers that DISPROVE THE AGW/GLOBAL WARMING CLAIMS...

How in the heck did you come up with the idea that I am a proponent of AGW/Global Warming?....

I have said for several years in these forums that NATURAL Climate Change is what has been happening...

I also have to wonder why you have to come up with the claim that because knights used armor it is impossible that the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than now...

YOU seem to be the one backing Global Warming/AGW, not me...

There is an article (that I can't find in this moment) that states CO2 is not a real Green House Gas. It showed graphics from ancient periods were the CO2 followed global temperature (instead of driving it).

I think the scam is not the Global Warning itself, but WHAT is causing it.

There have been some articles like This One, that tells a different history. Is not only Earth getting warmer but the whole solar system:

Mars Melting
Solar System Warming ATS thread

So, yes, things are getting hot... but Humans are not the main responsable. There is some people gaining economic advantages blaming CO2, when Cosmic Radiation has much more responsibility

Just found a couple of articles about CO2 being a global temperature follower:

New Evidence CO2 follows global warming
Global Warming: A convenient Lie

I've reached a conclusion on this global warming / climate change issue. Honestly...I don't care if it's anthropogenic or not. I really don't.

Know what I DO care about? I'm REALLY worried about some of the more pressing environmental concerns that are being swept under the rug while everybody is busy fighting about this global warming crap.

What about deforestation? Maybe we should stop cutting down trees and start planting them instead. Maybe we should start taking better care to preserve our wilderness lands instead of carving out more dead spots in the earth. It would certainly be more effective than bickering about carbon emissions!

Another URGENT issue that needs to be addressed is the danger that GMO crops cause to the environment. Through the winds of cross pollination, these are not only dangerous to humans, but dangerous to other plant and animal life as well. GMO plants have already been discovered growing in the wild where they have not been planted. The implications of that are HUGE. This is a REAL danger to our environment. So dangerous that it could possibly rewrite the genetic code of the entire planet!

Then there is geoengineering (that's chemtrails). Those toxic chemicals they are spraying are coming down and killing our soil and killing our plant life. Please take note that this is not only poisoning us, it is poisoning our planet!

Guess what all these environmental issues have in common!!!! They are all INDISPUTABLY ANTHROPOGENIC. We may or may not have any control over climate change...but deforestation, GMO crops, and geoengineering are all real man made environmental threats that we can put a stop to by simply not doing them anymore. Now if our politicians will get their heads out of their @$$es and deal with these issues first, maybe then I will take global warming a bit more seriously. But until that happens...I see no point.