Global Warming is not only NOT a hoax, but it is about 10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare.

originally posted by: Danbones

Baffled German Government Concedes! “Global Warming Has Stopped…Warming Pause Is Remarkable…Unexpected

notrickszone.com...

oh stop it

Well, now that it's 2016, the climate has unpaused itself with a vengeance. Take a look at the right two bars there.

crudata.uea.ac.uk...

crudata.uea.ac.uk...

The planet has warmed and cooled on its own eons in and out. To think that man, in his pitifully brief period on this planet caused the current change is the ultimate in self-importance. Change has happened before, it is happening now and will happen again. I don't deny that the climate is changing, but taxing the peons to change the course of history is the equivalent to pi$$ing into the wind. We just aren't that important in the geologic scheme of things.

a reply to: Cynic

Wow...this pretty much sums up the denialist ignorance.

We have changed this planet immensely, to pretend we are not significantly changing this planet is beyond ignorant, it is just flat out stupid.

Go outside and look around at the changes human activity has made.

a reply to: jrod

Agreed.

You name it - geology, biology - we have changed it. To think our 'tinkering' would have no effect on our planet's systems is the ultimate in self-absorbed irresponsibility.

originally posted by: Cynic
The planet has warmed and cooled on its own eons in and out. To think that man, in his pitifully brief period on this planet caused the current change is the ultimate in self-importance.

Actually, this is an experimental question which can be asked and measured quantitatively. Not dismissed with emotional reasons.

On a planetary scale we have changed the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to over 400 and going to 500. On a planet wide scale, we change the chemistry of the atmosphere by a substantial amount. That isn't anything small.

Don't misunderestimate the power of 7 billion humans. Before humans there has never been anything on the planet which could take minerals buried a mile deep and expose them to the atmosphere and combust them rapidly.

By the way, where are all the bison?

where did all the bison go?

Humans are as big a shock to the planet as a 5 mile asteroid impactor.

Change has happened before, it is happening now and will happen again.

And when bad climate change happens now, extremely rapidly by geological time scales, and it's our fault, what then?

I don't deny that the climate is changing, but taxing the peons to change the course of history is the equivalent to pi$$ing into the wind. We just aren't that important in the geologic scheme of things.

Our civilization doesn't exist on geologic timescales. What matters is what is happening now, and that change is from humans, because we have measured it to be so.

Mbkennel "On a planetary scale we have changed the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to over 400 and going to 500."

Well alot of people are in disagreement with this and this has been the basis of my argument - that is WE have changed the proportion of CO2. See here: Myths of global warming

And to quote the article:
FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased by about 120 part per million (ppm), most of which is likely due to human-caused CO2 emissions. The RATE of growth during this century has been about 0.55%/year. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.

And another thing - The bison were killed to wipe out the indians. This was a strategy and was on purpose. To compare it to CO2 rise is irrelevant. However I DO AGREE that we should look after the planet and find a way to counter all of the pollution that we are putting into the land, oceans, rivers and atmosphere.

I brought the threat of methane up many years ago, sorry to see it coming true...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Most of us aren't saying the world isn't warming up or that it was always a deliberate hoax....

But....

1) Still no massive increase, even though the science we're supposed to be trusting, predicted it by now.

2) Earth had these same issues WAY before we arrived on the scene. So why conclude WE are the current cause? Seems a bit silly really.

3) We simply don't have the data. We've been collecting temps for what, about a century? And those earlier accounts are suspect to say the LEAST....So, without all that historical temp info, how can we really make any informed assumption on it? (and don't give me ice core sample nonsense...those are not comprehensive of the world at large).

originally posted by: Mez353
Mbkennel "On a planetary scale we have changed the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to over 400 and going to 500."

Well alot of people are in disagreement with this and this has been the basis of my argument - that is WE have changed the proportion of CO2.

This is rock solid observational result and facts. We know it was nearly constant from the dawn of civilization until the industrial era when we could mine and burn coal. We have an idea about the amount of carbon burned. We know that it doesn't go away quickly in the atmosphere and we know from isotopes that it's from fossil sources.

And if there is some other reason, then what is it? You need a better explanation which agrees with the facts better than the one scientists have.

A factless assertion of "It's some natural cycle but who knows what it is? Aliens?" is dismissable immediately.

originally posted by: Gazrok
Most of us aren't saying the world isn't warming up or that it was always a deliberate hoax....

But....

1) Still no massive increase, even though the science we're supposed to be trusting, predicted it by now.

It's coming right on schedule as per actual scientific predictions.

2) Earth had these same issues WAY before we arrived on the scene. So why conclude WE are the current cause? Seems a bit silly really.

Because we know humans are burning and emitting CO2 and emitting other greenhouse gases, we see the atmosphere and ocean changing in chemistry and temperature, and we know how the laws of physics work in the atmosphere, and we calculate the effect, and it looks like the observations and it is worrisome in magnitude.

Science had this all nailed down tight before they went public.

3) We simply don't have the data. We've been collecting temps for what, about a century? And those earlier accounts are suspect to say the LEAST....So, without all that historical temp info, how can we really make any informed assumption on it? (and don't give me ice core sample nonsense...those are not comprehensive of the world at large).

If you don't agree with science about what happened in the past, then how can you say that "Earth had these problems in the past"?

What about the ozone hole from CFC's? What geological paleological record is there about that deep in geological history? None.

But we know the ozone hole is exacerbated strongly by CFC's made by humans, because we know laws of chemistry and have done extensive observational study of the planet and matched it all up. And humans took legal and regulatory action to stop the undesirable emissions, and it is working.

And DuPont never said that it was all a hoax.

originally posted by: Mez353
However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming.

Other than electromagnetism and chemistry.

As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.

So, changes in solar radiation & orbital forcing can cause warming. And that emission of CO2 can also cause warming as well.

Let's take the current observations (in the modern instrumental period). This time, CO2 goes up first, then temperatures go up later. This time, earth's oceans are not expelling CO2, but absorbing CO2, and yet the CO2 in the atmosphere is going up.

Something is definitely different. What is it?

Humans mining and burning fossil fuels primarily. Never happened before.

Now think about the geological physics that you're talking about. That happens over longer time periods, hundreds to thousands of years. What is the implication? It means that there are natural processes that will start emitting more CO2 from the more accessible (non-fossil) sources as the temperature goes up, meaning that the additions we are currently causing by humans will be further enhanced by more emissions, making the warming that much worse.