Global Warming is not only NOT a hoax, but it is about 10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare.

Originally posted by Nathan-D
reply to post by The_Liberator

 

I was expecting a meticulous dissection of their science and for you to burn my eyes out with thousands of paragraphs about why they are wrong. With two years of thorough research that would be the least you could do. Instead you tell me to type their names into Google followed by the word "debunked". Brilliant. You wouldn't be mc_squared by any chance?

edit on 2-11-2010 by Nathan-D because: (no reason given)

I'm taking it that you didn't read the link about Lindzen or watch the videos about Monkton. Why would I write a thesis about their myriad lies when they have already been thoroughly and meticulously debunked by others.

I think I see the point of this "story".

The OP says, I have "studied" this subject for the last two years so I am really smart and if you just watch this hours long video you will be smart too. OH, and if you don't agree with me then you are dumb and deserve whatever. OH, and don;t comment unless you agree with me. How arrogant.

Look, the moon and Mars were having an increase in temperature that was similar to the increase on Earth for a while. The increase and decrease that we are experiencing is because of the Sun and it's changes, nothing more.

The figures used to "prove" global warming were cooked by dishonest scientists and Al Gore who stood to make huge profits by selling carbon credits.

Originally posted by babybunnies
97% of climatologists agree that global warming is real?

Many so called "global warming deniers" also agree that global warming (or at least, climate change, which is what it should really be called) is real (myself included).

However, our biggest question is whether MAN MADE global warming is real. Especially since the global temperatures of every planet and moon in the solar system has increased at the same time as Earth's.

I believe it's real too and there's something strange going on with the sun. Volcanoes have been smoldering for some time now. What's the reason? To be honest, I had a vision of fresh water...oh forget it. What I've seen may not happen and I hope it doesn't. You can't convince people something is going on, if they don't look.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by loner007
reply to post by babybunnies

 

www.skepticalscience.com...

Oh boy not again, and from "skepticalscience?..

The claim that the Sun's activity has been steady, or hasn't increased since, pick your date 1950 to 1980s, is simply FALSE...

The sun's activity had been increasing until 2006, and we know that for at least 100 years the activity of the Sun had been steadily increasing, which in turn causes oceans to become warmer, which causes the atmosphere to become warmer, and a warmer atmosphere causes the water vapor level to increase, which causes a feedback effect warming the atmosphere more, which increases the water vapor content which makes the atmosphere warmer, so on, and so forth.

Since the activity of the Sun changes constantly, we also know the Sun is part of the reason why we can have warmer summer, or cooler summers, and colder winters and milder winters, although the oceans also affects this process as well as activity from outside the Solar System does influence the climate on Earth.

I have shown many times in the past that even back in 1978 scientists already knew that the climate on Earth was very probably going to change dramatically, but they didn't claim it was all because of mankind...

Is the solar system entering a nearby interstellar cloud

Abstract
Observations indicating a hydrogen density gradient in the vicinity of the solar system are reviewed, particularly observations of an anisotropy in the far-UV flux around 950 A from the brightest and closest O and B stars as well as a variation in the local D/H ratio along the lines of sight to Alpha Cen and Alpha Aur. Possible mechanisms that may strongly affect the observed D/H ratio on a very small scale are considered, selected radiation pressure is proposed as the most likely mechanism for deuterium separation, and it is shown that this mechanism would be effective only if the density gradient of the nearby interstellar medium has remained stable for at least about 10 million years. This time scale is taken to imply the existence of a nearby (less than 2 pc distant) interstellar cloud. Observational arguments in favor of such a cloud are presented, and implications of the presence of a nearby cloud are discussed, including possible changes in terrestrial climate. It is suggested that the postulated interstellar cloud should encounter the solar system at some unspecified time in the 'near' future and might have a drastic influence on terrestrial climate in the next 10,000 years.

adsabs.harvard.edu...

NASA Study Finds Increasing Solar Trend That Can Change Climate
ScienceDaily (Mar. 21, 2003) — Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study.

"This trend is important because, if sustained over many decades, it could cause significant climate change," said Richard Willson, a researcher affiliated with NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University's Earth Institute, New York. He is the lead author of the study recently published in Geophysical Research Letters.

"Historical records of solar activity indicate that solar radiation has been increasing since the late 19th century. If a trend, comparable to the one found in this study, persisted throughout the 20th century, it would have provided a significant component of the global warming the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports to have occurred over the past 100 years," he said.
...

www.sciencedaily.com...

The research above only covered only 24 years, from 1978 until 2002, and what Wilson found was that the Sun's activity had been increasing until the last year of his research, and we know for a fact that from 2002, and even before that, that the Sun's magnetic storms had been increasing in magnitute and frequency, and we know that when one factor of the Sun's activity increases it means all other factors, such as irradiance, the solar wind, cmes, etc, all increase in frequency and magnitute at the same time, and this had been occurring since 2006, and since we know that studies conducted by other scientists have shown that the Sun's activity had also been increasing for at least 60 years until the 1970s, we know for a fact that the Sun activity had been continuously increasing for 80-100 years and possibly more which has been the main reason for the Climate Change we have been experiencing.

Sunspots reaching 1,000-year high
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

A new analysis shows that the Sun is more active now than it has been at anytime in the previous 1,000 years.
Scientists based at the Institute for Astronomy in Zurich used ice cores from Greenland to construct a picture of our star's activity in the past.

They say that over the last century the number of sunspots rose at the same time that the Earth's climate became steadily warmer.
...
Latest warming

Dr Solanki is presenting a paper on the reconstruction of past solar activity at Cool Stars, Stellar Systems And The Sun, a conference in Hamburg, Germany.

He says that the reconstruction shows the Maunder Minimum and the other minima that are known in the past thousand years.

But the most striking feature, he says, is that looking at the past 1,150 years the Sun has never been as active as it has been during the past 60 years.

Over the past few hundred years, there has been a steady increase in the numbers of sunspots, a trend that has accelerated in the past century, just at the time when the Earth has been getting warmer.
...

news.bbc.co.uk...

The research from Wilson has demonstrated that the early claims that the Sun's activity had stopped increasing since the 1980s is in fact false, and the Sun's activity has in fact continued to increase until 2006, when suddenly the Sun's conveyor belt slowed down to a crawl for about 2-3 years, and now once again the Sun's activity seems to be picking up, but who knows what the Sun will do next?...

But of course, scientific evidence is nothing for the Al Gore religious fanatics... These people rather keep lsitening to a man who continues to use his private jets, and goes to Global Warming meetings in a suv convoy, and drives in an expensive Lincoln Town limo.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/acc6db29519d.jpg[/atsimg]

www.miamilimoservice.com...

I wonder who the truly ignorant people are...

edit on 2-11-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: add link

I appreciate the time you took to write that post. However, are you saying that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas with the proven ability to heat the planet? We have added 100+ ppm of CO2 and that is why the earth is warming and the arctic is melting.

Whether or not the sun is active or inactive is irrelevant. The Sun's effect on temp is minimul when compared to CO2 and other greenhouse gases. The case is closed on this matter.

Originally posted by romanmel
I think I see the point of this "story".

The OP says, I have "studied" this subject for the last two years so I am really smart and if you just watch this hours long video you will be smart too. OH, and if you don't agree with me then you are dumb and deserve whatever. OH, and don;t comment unless you agree with me. How arrogant.

Look, the moon and Mars were having an increase in temperature that was similar to the increase on Earth for a while. The increase and decrease that we are experiencing is because of the Sun and it's changes, nothing more.

The figures used to "prove" global warming were cooked by dishonest scientists and Al Gore who stood to make huge profits by selling carbon credits.

edit on 2-11-2010 by romanmel because: (no reason given)

Ok, then perhaps you would prefer the post that I was originally going to post (with no long video in it).

Here it is:

I have been reading ATS for a few months and this is my first post (or thread or whatever you call it). I decided to post it because I feel that you, as open minded people, have a right to know the truth about what is going on regarding global warming. Plus I’m tired of the posts on here that claim global warming is some kind of hoax.

It’s not simply that global warming is worse than you think…rather global warming is about 10,000 times worst than you think.


This post will probably be uber-disturbing to many of you, so if you aren’t a fan of horror movies, or if you are someone who doesn’t enjoy being terrified to the point that you practically soil your pants, I would suggest moving on to another thread and not reading any further.

For those brave souls remaining, here goes….

Before I get started, I ask that you give me about 10 minutes of your time. I realize that is a lot of time to spend on a single thread, but considering the magnitude of what I am talking about, 10 minutes is nothing.

Each link that I am about to present is mercifully brief (the one video I present is about 3 minutes long, and the rest are no more than a few short paragraphs).

I have put quite a lot of thought into this post as I realize I have one shot at convincing you monkeys (myself included) of the dire reality of the situation.

Before I go into just how ridiculously dire our situation is, let us first establish the fact that global warming is real, and not a hoax as many on this board appear to believe.

Exhibit number 1:

(paraphrase of following article) 97 percent of climate scientists say that global warming is real and is a direct result of carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted by man. The 3 percent that do not subscribe to this theory are far less qualified and included people like Richard Lindzen (google his name to see how he has been proven time and again to be a lying sociopath).

content.usatoday.com...

Exhibit number 2:

The Arctic is melting. 2010 had the 3rd lowest sea ice area but the LOWEST VOLUME EVER RECORDED.

www.youtube.com...

Exhibit number 3.

THIS IS THE BIG KAHUNA PEOPLE!!

The East Siberian Arctic Shelf, which was previously considered an impermeable cap to VAST amounts of methane is melting and is venting untold amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Methane is 20-70 percent more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2, depending on the time frame (because it degrades to become CO2 after a few years, depending on its concentration). According to researchers, so much methane is stored in the East Siberian Arctic shelf, that if only 1 PERCENT were to be released, it would cause

climateprogress.org...“catastrophic” warming, practically overnight.

That’s right, IT IS MELTHING NOW PEOPLE…..

Exhibit number 4:

2010 is the hottest year ever so far, with the past decade being the hottest on recorded record, followed by the 90’s, and with the 80’s coming in third place. Russian officials used to joke about global warming…until this last summer when they hit the highest temps ever recorded which started historic fires.
I realize that I only have your attention for another minute or 2, so I would like to

The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is also melting…. as is Greenland, and so far the warming of our planet has surpassed the worst-case scenario put forth by the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) just a few years ago. (remember that Antactica and Greenland are land masses with ice on TOP of them so if they melt, sea level will rise by METERS!!!)


Exhibit number 5:

Ocean acidification is considered the “evil twin” of global warming. CO2 dissolves in sea water to become carbonic acid which is slowly making the ocean inhospitable for the vast majority of marine life. Don’t believe me….then see exhibit number 6.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Exhibit number 6:

Phytoplankton in the worlds oceans have declined by FORTY PERCENT because of global warming and ocean acidification. Phytoplankton is the base of the food chain and if it disappears, we all go extinct.

www.csmonitor.com...

I could go on and on but I’ll leave it at that. If you want more, go here and click around: climateprogress.org...

We have already warmed about a degree since the start of the industrial age, and experts say that anything above 2 degrees would make the earth inhospitable for life as we know it (not to mention Greenland and Antarctica would melt completely meaning bye-bye Miami)

Bottom line….global warming is real, is far more serious than even the worst case scenario projected just a few years ago, and is happening FAR faster than even the most dire predictions. What’s worst…. there is simply nothing we can do at this point to stop it.

In fact, if we were to stop all emissions tomorrow, temps would actually shoot up. Why? Because along with CO2, we are also emitting tiny particles (the ones that form smog) that hover in the atmoshphere and slightly dim out sunlight (it is known as global dimming). This has a cooling effect which has helped to counter the heating effect of CO2.

This means that if we stopped all emissions, CO2 would remain constant while the cooling effect of global dimming would disappear shooting the temperature up worldwide OVERNIGHT.

It is a conundrum for which there is no answer.

Enjoy life while you can.

I chose to go the video route because Miller beautifully articulates the problem with fancy charts and graphs....not to mention it's a DAMN good lecture.

I never said I'm smart. I said I have studied the topic for over 1000 hours. Relative to the general public, I happen to be an expert on the subject. Relative to a climate scientist, I am an ignoramus. It's a matter of perspective.

I should probably have chosen my words more carefully.

Originally posted by The_Liberator
I believe I have presented a lot of evidence.

You did not, you just showed the claims from those who have been part of the scam...

This is what people like you don't seem to want to understand. There are a lot of rich people, and a lot of groups involved in this scam, and their reason for doing it is to implement a One World Government, which they tried at the last Copenhagen meeting. They want to create a one world government, were even fewer people have all the control to "combat Climate Change...

Global Warming/AGW is nothig but a scam to create this One World Government, and it is an excuse to starve more people so we are all more easily controlled by this One World Government.

Climate Change HAS HAPPENED MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, and Earth has experienced even FASTER Climate Changes which has caught people completely unprepared.

The AGW believers now claim " oh now there is nothing we can do" simply because THERE NEVER WAS ANYTHING WE COULD REALLY DO", but this is their new scare tactic to try to get more people, who sorry to say are also ignorant, and would embrace this new religion which is nothing more than a scam...

NATURAL Climate Change will continue happening, and depending of what the Sun does, and what we encounter in our voyage through the Solar System it can either get worse, or get better, but we have no control whatsoever on this.

What these rich people are doing is taking control over everything, including education, and even children are being indoctrinated to believe in this scam, and they are even taught that "it is ok to explode children to save the planet"...

We had a couple of threads about the new video made to make people accept this scam in which school children who do not accept Global Warming are made to explode... We have also seen videos from "Greenpeace" in which children are giving a warning and saying anyone who doesn't believe in the GLobal Warming scam is an enemy of children...

People who believe in AGW/Global Warming have been indoctrinated into beleiving in it, and through education children are being indoctrinated to think that anyone who doesn't believe in this scam is an enemy of the planet, and an enemy of children...

Pretty soon we are going to have every country become into Iraq, as children are indoctrinated into believing that they must also kill anyone who oposes this greatest scam in the history of mankind.

Yes, we are in grave danger, and that danger comes from this indoctrination, and the brainwashing that is going on...

This new religion is turning people, and children into mindless machines who are being indoctrinated into believing that "it is ok to explode, and die for the good of the planet, and to save the planet"...

This is part of the rich elites who want to take control over everything in this planet, and you people are so ignorant, those who believe in the AGW/Global Warming scam, that you are going along with it...

Originally posted by Onboard2

Originally posted by babybunnies
97% of climatologists agree that global warming is real?

Many so called "global warming deniers" also agree that global warming (or at least, climate change, which is what it should really be called) is real (myself included).

However, our biggest question is whether MAN MADE global warming is real. Especially since the global temperatures of every planet and moon in the solar system has increased at the same time as Earth's.

I believe it's real too and there's something strange going on with the sun. Volcanoes have been smoldering for some time now. What's the reason? To be honest, I had a vision of fresh water...oh forget it. What I've seen may not happen and I hope it doesn't. You can't convince people something is going on, if they don't look.

As Ice melts in Greenland and West Antarctica, thousands of tons are released into the water. This mass redistribution means less mass at the poles.

This slightly changes the shape of the planet and can cause increased volcanic activity and earthquakes. So crazy as it sounds, there IS a connection between global warming and earthquakes and volcanic activity.

If those proposing the carbon tax credit fiasco as a solution cared about "global warming" and really believe that it is man made, they would not be proposing a system within which we give the heaviest polluters permission to keep on polluting so long as they pay enough money for the privilege. Do you want to solve the global warming problem, or just use it as a ploy to control the people and become even more filthy rich?

By the way, I do not believe that global warming is caused by man, and that is not the same a saying pollution should not be curtailed, it should, or that methane production should not be minimized, it should, or that deforestation should not be halted and reversed by replanting as much forest as possible, it should.

The "global warming" issue as posed by Al Gore and his followers seems to me to be just a money-making, control-grabbing, freedom-destroying scam and not a solution to anything. How can you tell? It's the money-making element of it which exposes its true nature.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Hows this for evidence:


Arctic permafrost leaking methane at record levels

Scientists have recorded a massive spike in the amount of a powerful greenhouse gas seeping from Arctic permafrost, in a discovery that highlights the risks of a dangerous climate tipping point.

Experts say methane emissions from the Arctic have risen by almost one-third in just five years, and that sharply rising temperatures are to blame.

The discovery follows a string of reports from the region in recent years that previously frozen boggy soils are melting and releasing methane in greater quantities. Such Arctic soils currently lock away billions of tonnes of methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, leading some scientists to describe melting permafrost as a ticking time bomb that could overwhelm efforts to tackle climate change.

They fear the warming caused by increased methane emissions will itself release yet more methane and lock the region into a destructive cycle that forces temperatures to rise faster than predicted.

Paul Palmer, a scientist at Edinburgh University who worked on the new study, said: "High latitude wetlands are currently only a small source of methane but for these emissions to increase by a third in just five years is very significant. It shows that even a relatively small amount of warming can cause a large increase in the amount of methane emissions."


www.guardian.co.uk...

and this

"Generally speaking, destabilization of subsea permafrost means that it fails to further prevent methane leakage from seabed deposits of methane stored in the ESAS," said Shakhova. "This provides the global carbon budget with a previously unconsidered and very specific type of methane source."

Unlike other terrestrial and marine sources, which gradually release methane as it forms, the shelf is emitting methane that has accumulated in seabed deposits for hundreds of thousands of years and until now was restricted by permafrost, says Shakhova.

"As methane has been permanently originating in the seabed since it was formed, these deposits are huge and emissions of this ready-to-go methane to the water column only depend on occurence of migration pathways (provided or not provided by permafrost)," she said. "These emissions could be non-gradual, sudden, more or less massive, they could even be abrupt."

The methane released from ESAS does not become oxidized by microbes as it passes through the water column, unlike methane released from the oceanic hydrate deposits found at depths of more than 700 m. "In the ESAS this bio-filter does not work because the water is very shallow – mean depth is less than 50 m – and there is just not enough time for oxidation," said Shakhova.

"Moreover, Arctic shallow hydrate deposits are three times more sensitive to warming than oceanic deposits," said Shakhova. "This means that three times less energy (provided by warming) is required to destabilize them compared to deep oceanic hydrates."

iopscience.iop.org...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by The_Liberator


Pure hoax. Purposes: Excuse for government regulation. To facilitate a world government. Hide effects of planetary event / approach of planetary body and effects on planetary weather patterns associated with solar activity and gravitational forces. To make martial law sound "reasonable." And by coincidence to make Al Gore rich.
It's all in the emails. Refer to climategate. Given a reality comparison of Godzilla vs. global warming, or as I like to call it, "summer", I give the nod to Godzilla.

Originally posted by Vicious Jones

Originally posted by lavenlaar
Co2 - natural occurance
Trees produce Oxygen from Co2
Humans need Oxygen to survive
--
Less trees in world + greater population = greater increase in Co2
EASY ! Plant a tree

Why was Co2 emissions at its lowest in the 1940's in the industrial age ?

R u trolling? I hope so otherwise you didn't even bother to read the post or watch the vid. I'll be back with more after I check out the video.

Trolling? I think not. Many members agree as shown by lavenlaar's post receiving as many flags as the OP.

Originally posted by The_Liberator

Originally posted by romanmel
I think I see the point of this "story".

The OP says, I have "studied" this subject for the last two years so I am really smart and if you just watch this hours long video you will be smart too. OH, and if you don't agree with me then you are dumb and deserve whatever. OH, and don;t comment unless you agree with me. How arrogant.

Look, the moon and Mars were having an increase in temperature that was similar to the increase on Earth for a while. The increase and decrease that we are experiencing is because of the Sun and it's changes, nothing more.

The figures used to "prove" global warming were cooked by dishonest scientists and Al Gore who stood to make huge profits by selling carbon credits.

edit on 2-11-2010 by romanmel because: (no reason given)

Ok, then perhaps you would prefer the post that I was originally going to post (with no long video in it).

Here it is:

blah, blah, blah.

Enjoy life while you can.

I AM enjoying life, thank you. No worries whatsoever.

Like your supporter said just before you..."The effects of the sun is minimal, compared to CO2"

Wow, what an ignorant thing to say. Take the Sun away for a few days and see whar happens.

If you are so worried about CO2...how many trees have you planted this past year?

reply to post by The_Liberator

In fact, if we were to stop all emissions tomorrow, temps would actually shoot up. Why? Because along with CO2, we are also emitting tiny particles (the ones that form smog) that hover in the atmoshphere and slightly dim out sunlight (it is known as global dimming). This has a cooling effect which has helped to counter the heating effect of CO2.
This means that if we stopped all emissions, CO2 would remain constant while the cooling effect of global dimming would disappear shooting the temperature up worldwide OVERNIGHT.

What if we stopped all CO2 emissions, but continue to supply the atmosphere only with dimming microparticles, till the CO2 does not return to its natural level and rate of change? I believe the best way would be to spray such microparticles from commercial and military jet liners, masquerading them as contrails. No, people, I know what you think, but if what OP says is true, then this would be the most rational course of action.

Maybe add some birth control into the mix for the third world countries which suffer from population explosion, while we are at it

10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare

Didn't know that fear mongering was quantifiable.

Originally posted by The_Liberator
I have noticed that many on this site claim global warming to be a “hoax”, and I realize that many of those people are quite literally inconvincible (try convincing a creationist that the earth is more than 6000 years old and you‘ll understand what I‘m saying). However, there is a large number of you who are simply uneducated on the topic, and you are the people that I am speaking to in this thread.

I can understand your frustrations, but I don't agree with your assessment. Before mankind can be 100% blamed for global warming, the geological and weather history of this planet must be explored. If you look at the data collected over the years, two significant weather periods occurred in recent history.

Little Ice Age
Between the 16th and 19th century, (1650 CE, 1770 CE, 1850 CE), mankind confronted a period called the 'Little Ice Age'.

Medieval Warming Period
Between the year 950 CE and 1250 CE, mankind confronted the Medieval Warming period.

What the data is telling me is that the Earth goes through 'drastic periods of cold and warm'. Regardless about how much mankind is involved, the Earth is going to automatically go through a massive geological and weather pattern change.

Now, if I am correct about the Earth getting ready for a BIG geological change (not caused by man), there should be some other evidence to support my theory. Well, there is...

Giant Crack in Africa Will Create a New Ocean

A 35-mile rift in the desert of Ethiopia will likely become a new ocean eventually, researchers now confirm. The crack, 20 feet wide in spots, opened in 2005 and some geologists believed then that it would spawn a new ocean. But that view was controversial, and the rift had not been well studied.

How can we put 100% of the blame for global warming on mankind's shoulders when Earth itself is still showing us it is still alive and well?

People keep forgetting that the Earth is a living thing in which goes through drastic cycles. Regardless about what we try to do in reaction to those changes, the Earth is going to do whatever it wants to do.

reply to post by The_Liberator


All that you claimed AGAIN, is nothing more tha LIES....

The Earth HAS ALREADY enjoyed temperatures which were 2C and even more than it is now AND THERE WERE NO MASSIVE EXTINCTIONS...

This is what irks me about people like you...

You people make FALSE claims, and think you can get away with it...

Guess what? During the Medieval Warm Period temperatures were up to 2 degrees C degrees higher than during 1998 and 1999, and in case you didn't know 2010 hasn't been that extremely hotter than 1998, yet people like you want to claim that life as we know it will cease to exist with temperatures 2 degrees C higher than they are now when during the Medieval Warm period temperatures GLOBALLY were up to 2 degrees C and PEOPLE WERE THRIVING AS WELL AS ANIMALS?...

BTW, in case you didn't know the Roman Warm period was even WARMER than the Medieval Warm Period, and guess what?... That was during the Roman expansion, and people, as well as animals THRIVED... Yet you people want others to believe there will be massive deaths with temperatures 2 degree C higher than now?...

BTW, meanwhile Russia had higher than normal temps, in the Northwest of the U.S. and Canada we have been seen temperatures cooler than normal. We even had during the summer temperatures go down to 50 degrees at night, something which is very rare for these areas. Not to mention that we saw a longer winter than normal.

I have to wonder where all these claims that temperatures were globally higher when many areas have experienced temperatures cooler than normal...

Do these temperatures come from the same people who were caught as being part of the greatest scam of the 20th and 21st century?...

reply to post by OnTheFelt


I'm just saying you didn't have to get so angry about it. STFU???? Come on the guy can say his piece. Look we know Bush stuck his head in the sand on this and Gore went too far the other way.

Let's keep politics out of this and look at the cold, hard facts. To me those facts point to NO ONE knows for sure what is happening or why. Just that our climate is changeing.

nothing will be done, until the wealthy want it done. our industrialized world as well as our political world is dominated by the corporate and the wealthy. they will make plans for themselves, not the rest of us. i hope my son will be able to be included in those plans. as for me, i can not change what i do not control.