Irish ship on collision course with Israeli navy near Gaza

Hope this is useful as an update, published within this hour.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

SAAABBOOTTAAGGEE

reply to post by Skellon



Thank you for your reply.

I have personally rated your post , hoping that you are speaking the truth. I don't hope so in my own benefit or in others benefit, but in yours

I am saying in yours because duplicity ,inhumanity , perverted characters ( and i can go on for 1 hour ...) is the root of evil in the world today and sooner or later those guilty will pay a price that they never imagined

I admire how you in a way or another ( in a less obvious way ...) you admit of having a derailed objectivity but i understand that as i find myself many times thinking the opposite as how the masses do and questioning many of the reasons that induced that mass belief, but i have to mention that this story with Israel doesn't apply in my case..

If you really believe in what you're doing , keep doing it ! ( this is actually my motto)

reply to post by charlie_the_loafer


Thank you for the respectful manner in which you have replied.

I respect your opinion on this recent incident and hope to both agree and disagree with you in the future.

I appreciate your maturity and understanding.

Star back at ya!

Originally posted by UKDavidUK
Hope this is useful as an update, published within this hour.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

SAAABBOOTTAAGGEE

Interesting article, I am not sure whether this comes before the news of the flotilla now arriving later this afternoon after losing contact or after.(will check that out)

I see atleast two sides to this;

Israel being condemned for preventing the Rachel Corrie from reaching its desired destination.

Israel sabotaging the Rachel Corrie to avoid a repeat of the Mavi Marmara tragedy.

How do you guys interpret it?

It was Posted about 10am British time by the telegraph and its not coming upto 11am, either way western media's going to ram it with celebrity faces and eastern are going to condemn it. Its like a show, with an outcome i'd rather not see.

Also, this answers why ATS members didnt get an update of the ships stop after malta

Agree?

Skellon...

Please tell me why Israel does not have a free press and has filtered internet.

Last time I checked, only regimes based on propaganda and fear need to do this.

Your balanced and unbiased view would be interesting.

Turkey to decrease relations with Israel

Turkey's deputy prime minister says economic and defense cooperation with Israel will be reduced amid tensions after the killing of nine Turkish activists by Israeli commandos on an aid ship.

Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc says all deals with Israel are being evaluated. He said Friday "we are serious on this issue. New cooperation will not start and relations with Israel will be reduced."

reply to post by john124



I believe that they used the word "serious" because they are aware that they made these kind of statements almost monthly but never they decrease in doing businesses with Israel

Originally posted by charlie_the_loafer
reply to post by john124

 

I believe that they used the word "serious" because they are aware that they made these kind of statements almost monthly but never they decrease in doing businesses with Israel

Up until the point where tensions become so great that business with Israel becomes more than unfashionable, it becomes illegal.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Skellon...

Please tell me why Israel does not have a free press and has filtered internet.

Last time I checked, only regimes based on propaganda and fear need to do this.

Your balanced and unbiased view would be interesting.

Hi thedeadtruth,

First off, I would like to thank you for addressing me as Skellon this time instead of Skellop.

In the 3 links below you will find examples of censorship in different countries to include both the United Kingdom and the United States.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...



It would appear that only New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, Iceland, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Slovakia, Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Sweden and Finland have true 'Free Press'.

Internet
Main article: Broadband Internet access in Israel

The Internet companies market are divided into two: infrastructure providers and service providers. The infrastructure providers are Bezeq and Hot. The biggest Internet service providers are Bezeq international, NetVision 013 Barak, 012 smile, in addition to 35 smaller companies. The highest speed available nowadays to the domestic Israeli internet user is 100MBit in download and 1MBit in Upload - which is provided by Hot and NetVision, and other providers are expected to follow.[2][3]
[edit] Wireless Internet

The future of broadband Wireless Internet will be decided towards two possible directions - one possibility would be the takeover of the Cellular companies' third generation and fourth generation systems and the second possibility would be the other communication companies with their WiMax technologies.

en.wikipedia.org...

Israel

Israel is not categorized by ONI and is not on RSF's internet enemy list. The Orthodox Jewish parties in Israel proposed an internet censorship legislation would only allow access to adult-content Internet sites for users who identify themselves as adults and request not to be subject to filtering. In 27/02/2008 the law passed in its first of three votes required, however it has been rejected by the government's legislation committee on 12/07/2009.

en.wikipedia.org...



Here is the RSF's(Reportes Without Borders) internet enemies list of 13 countries.

en.rsf.org...


Hope this answers your questions.



[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by UndergroundMilitia


Hi UndergroundMilitia, you made a mistake, the response you quoted was a reply to my own post- I was not the author!

Originally posted by hippomchippo Originally posted by Mobius1974 reply to post by vagabondrobb

Brave and inspirational???? OMFG.. Our planet is doomed. I hope they charged that guys family for the clean up of his flat butt. Then make them clean the tank treds. If you feel strongly about something.... What good will you do for the cause after you are dead? Live to fight another day.. Laying down in front of heavy equipment = S-T-U-P-I-D

That's honestly a disgusting statement. The tiananmen protests are some of the biggest inspirations for anti-war protests and anti-war activists today, and for you to say it's stupid, because of the fact that this man could have died by being crushed is honestly revolting. This man didn't even die from that, he apparantly was executed by the chinese government afterwords, would he live if he hadn't have done it? Sure, but would he have lived with himself after he let tanks go and murder innocent people? [edit on 3-6-2010 by hippomchippo] Agreed, some things are better left unsaid. That man had more guts than 100,000 of your average American and he is nothing short of a hero in my book.

Vagabondrobb, please think before you speak. [edit on 3-6-2010 by UndergroundMilitia]

I refuted the pointlessnes of Rachel Corries death by drawing on the Tianamen square 'tank man'.

This was my reply to the above post:

The guy didn't get ran over, the tanks stopped and he even chatted to the tank commander, he was eventually yanked away and never again seen by the secret police. Executed probably. You can either call him stupid, as you would, or you can regard the man as a man of incredible bravery, somebody who had the balls to stand in front of a column of tanks because he felt it might make a difference. It did, the image became a 20th century icon of defiance, no doubt inspiring countless others throughout the world to stand up against injustice. And for your information, standing in front of bulldozers DOES sometimes prevent families homes from being destroyed. Remember you are not up against a bulldozer, it is the guy who is driving it, Rachel was unlucky.

Sorry to make a big deal about a simple misunderstanding but I feel strongly about the post!

We agree with eachother!



[edit on 4-6-2010 by vagabondrobb]

reply to post by Skellon



Sorry not even close to trying to answer my pretty basic question.

" Why does Israel not have a few press and internet access " .

I do not need a list of countrues that also do not have a free press please. You are not sticking up for those countries, you are defending Israel in the last few posts I read. So lets be specific.

Please note, I am from N.Z. so know what free press is.

Please respectfully answer the question.

www.haaretz.com...

They censor any news that might cause the voters to question their treatment of the Palestinians. The Govt need people to be afraid to stay in power.

If they were so righteous, they would have nothing to hide.

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
They should reach Israel by early Friday.

I sincerly hope no harm comes to that ships passengers. Our Prime Minister or 'Taoiseach' as we call him has made his feelings abundantly clear, he was outraged at the attack on the flotilla and at the arrests of the Irish civilians who were there at the time (one of whom is a good friend of mine, im so thankful he is okay ).

This has really taken over the Irish media, the guys that return home arrive to a heroes welcome, i think I can safely speak for the majority of Irish people when I say we are very proud of them and disgusted at the Israeli government for what they did.

If this goes bad then Israel can expect an abundance of Irish people arriving in dingys, boats, canoes, jet skis, hitchhiking etc, all ready to fight. Yeah we havent got much of an army but hey who cares, you mess with one of us and you are taking us all on.

Why is it that people are trying to BAIT and TRAP Israel into doing something wrong?

This boat, I don't care where it comes from, is going to try and land at Gaza which is NOT allowed. The Muppets are simply asking for trouble, why are they doing it?

Israel WILL stop them. They will not risk their country going up / disappearing in a blinding white flash of light because of some stupid piece of paper saying that stopping the boat is illegal, durh! If it's in their waters, then it isn't illegal. In International Waters, then yes, wrong but if these Hamas idiots stopped provoking them, there wouldn't be any problems!

Anybody with more than 2 brain cells can see that Israel are being taunted and I don't blame them for standing up for themselves, any other country would do the same!

Let's send some Iranian vessels with undeclared cargo on board to New York Harbour, see what happens then!

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
Interesting responses...and ones that speak volumes about the people posting them. I guess as long as it is against Israel it is ok to deliberately attempt to create an incident.

And that will be the case as long as the Israeli government acts like a bunch of clueless thugs with a "We're God's chosen people so we can do whatever the F we want to." attitude. They are throwing away all the political goodwill they have amassed since they kicked butt in 1967. I'm cheering on the Irish. (And Hamas.)

reply to post by thedeadtruth



To be quite honest, I find your line of questioning insulting.

I have had patience with you, I have addressed your questions factually with citations, if you cannot accept that, then that is your problem and not mine.

I proved your question regarding Israels alleged internet filter to be wrong with just a few quick searches, you chose not to acknowledge this and instead deflected the line of questioning onto Free Press.

You are posting on this forum so you obviously have access to the internet, so maybe you should take the initiative and research the answers that you are looking for, instead of requesting that I do it for you.

I am tired in general, so no I don't feel like answering open ended questions, where I am the main contributer in a never ending line of questions.

I shall debate this further with you if you wish later after some rest and maybe then we can dispense with the baiting.

Good night.





[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by 4nsicphd


Look in the mirror. The clueless thug is who?

reply to post by minkey53


The Blockade itself isnt lawful, and if isreal was punished for commiting piracy, then this wouldnt be happening.

Plus at the end of the day its aid.

reply to post by UKDavidUK


Shoot... Lets all just spout out things we believe as FACTS.. I bet the world wont get confusing..
1) Blockade is legal.
2) Israel has the right to protect it self

Boarding that ship IS LEGAL when it coincides with upholding a LEGAL blockade.

I dont agree with the blockade.. But it IS LEGAL!!!!

I want the palestinians to get weapons.. I want all of Israels neighbors to attack them .. I actually think Israel can take on every last one of them by themselves! Iran/Lebanon/Syria + Turkey ~VS~ Israel would be the only FAIR fight that can come from that area. I just hope lil kim attacks the south soon.. If we are going to have WWIII .. I say we do it right this time!

Here is an interesting video of an Al Jazeera reporter who was aboard the Mavi Marmara giving his account of the events. He claims the Israeli navy fired on the ship first and were shooting from helicopter and boats.



The charity organisers, aid workers & reporters on the flotilla claim the IDF fired first.

Israel strongly rejects this and say they only shot in self defence after some commando's weapons were taken.

This could be easily solved if Israel released all the video they obtained when they confiscated all cameras, videos & any other media equipment aboard the aid fleet. Why would navy commando's confiscate all the video footage from charity organisers/reporters?

They've only released tiny snippits of video containing the activists attacking the commandos, where's all the footage of the bloodbath where 9 were killed and dozens injured? I guess Israel can't look bad in the media.



Its amazing looking at some of the responses saying things like they deserve what they get if the break the blockade.

* The blockade is illegal under international law as mentioned earlier. Israel must either claim Gaza as it's own territory or declare war on Gaza for the blockade to be legal.

* Their attack on the Turkish ship can be considered an act of war as they were attacked in international waters. Turkey has stated after the attack they will use their navy to escort future aid.

* These aren't just some hippies stocking their ships and setting sail for Gaza with no preparation. These are fully organised charities who have stocked aid supplies which are legal under UN law & who have undergone rigorous checks & inspections by customs before leaving port.

*The Irish ship's cargo has been posted and is; 550 tons of bagged cement, 20 tons of printing paper, 25 tons of school supplies/books, 12 tons of toys & 150 tons of medical supplies. It's been inspected already, it's not dangerous, why not let them deliver their aid?

*There is no weapons concealed on board as the ship has already passed customs inspections. Former UN veteran & ship captain Denis Halliday has even requested for the UN to inspect the cargo themselves before then escorting the ship into Gaza, but i doubt they will get involved this early.



The crew has refused offers from the Israeli's to dock in Ashdod & allow Israel transport the aid into Gaza as they believe they will not recieve most of the aid.

The aid which was confiscated from the flotilla was rejected by hamas, some of the items were even damaged & had parts missing.

Hamas Minister of Social Affairs Ahmed Al-Kurd called the Israeli delivery a "media campaign" meant to "divert the attention of the world from their acts of piracy." Al-Kurd said the goods brought to Gaza were broken or missing parts. Among the items delivered were a set of electric wheelchairs, presented with their batteries missing, Ma'an said.

"We will refuse the aid as long as the victims of Israel's attack remain in prison. Without exception we demand their release," Al-Kurd said during a Gaza City press conference.

source


I hope all this media attention of Gaza will make more people aware of the situation there and that it can rally more frequent flotilla's of much needed aid to the Palestinians. They may have an escort in the next time!




[edit on 4-6-2010 by TheSam]