Irish ship on collision course with Israeli navy near Gaza

reply to post by DangerDeath


I know. But it is funny how some people are delusional or not educated enough and think it is an open and honest regime.

It would be funny if it were not so serious.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


It is so hopeless.
They are going to kill them.
To prove their point.

First of all some of the Irish do have a history of Terrorism?
Iam half Irish so Iam not trying to be insulting.
This is going to get out of hand, just what the Arabs want.
I cannot believe all the anti Israel propaganda on ATS recently, no nation is blameless or are they?
Name one powerful nation that is blameless?
I cannot name one.
Survival is the priority of every free nation.
The Israelis have a right to protect their nation.
That however is my opinion omly.
But alas I believe it to be a sane one.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
First of all some of the Irish do have a history of Terrorism?

I'd rather spend a week in Iraq than a night in Northern Ireland....
AND I'M IRISH!! Well, half, cause my grandparents are from there.

reply to post by thedeadtruth



Hi thedeadtruth,



The short answer to your question; No.



If you care to enlighten me with irrefutable evidence of Israeli military forces intentionally killing unarmed civilians, then I will stand corrected.

Also, if you are not able to provide the irrefutable evidence I requested, it may serve to end the use of the label 'murderers' when refering to any military action of the IDF.

Though I doubt it somehow, as ignorant people only believe what they want to believe, even when confronted with facts.


[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

Divide and conquer is a very common method of controlling groups.
Perhaps the people who are really in control DON'T WANT PEACE in this area of the world.

I read an article - I wish I could remember the source - that compared the wars in Ireland with the Israel/Palestine conflict. Their theory was England didn't want peace in Ireland, in order to control the region. Same with the US and Israel. In both cases, one side did seemed favored but not enough to totally end the conflict.

So if you think about this -the focus now is on Israel and it's blockade - not the on-going US wars in the region. Sure they still may hate America, but right now the focus is on something else.

reply to post by Skellon



Here is proof....

news.bbc.co.uk...

Please note this was not a voluntary investigation. The IDF tried its best to hide evidence for 2 years. Refusing to do an investigation until it was forced to by outside forces.

They do this every day. Murder people and lie about it.

This is what you support.

The only reason you do not know the truth, is because all voluntary investigations claim the IDF never does anything wrong.

And Israel does not have a free media and have filtered internet. Just like Bad Korea and Paranoid China.

What are they trying to hide from their own people ?

So what my question is Skellon , why are you on a forum that has the motto "deny ignorance" but you support censorship of the news in Israel ?

[edit on 11/19/09 by thedeadtruth]

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Skellon

 

Here is proof....

news.bbc.co.uk...

Please note this was not a voluntary investigation. The IDF tried its best to hide evidence for 2 years. Refusing to do an investigation until it was forced to by outside forces.

They do this every day. Murder people and lie about it.

This is what you support.

news.bbc.co.uk...


Please note that from your displayed assumption, this evidence would imply that you consider all US servicemen to be murderers.

Do you believe that to be the truth?

As I do not.


As tragic as those cases are, they are certainly not conclusive in labelling a countriy's entire military force as 'murderers'.


I was expecting atleast the use of White Phosphorus in the Gaza campaign of 2008-2009.





[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by adamo21



Hi adamo21,


I would seriously consider responding to you if I considered your post as something serious to respond to.

Anyway, back on topic.

Originally posted by Skellon

Please note that from your displayed assumption, this evidence would imply that you consider all US servicemen to be murderers.
Do you believe that to be the truth?
As I do not.

As tragic as those case are, they are certainly not conclusive in labelling a countriy's entire military force as 'murderers'.
I was expecting atleast the use of White Phosphorus in the Gaza campaign of 2008-2009.

Oh yeah, for "smoke screening" hey? Damn shame about all those kids whose limbs were melted off while they watched.

You should read my thread on US servicemen as murderers. Yes, if you participate in crimes against humanity, then "following orders" is not a valid excuse. We (humanity) established that at Nuremburg.

EDIT: i can't find anything yet,where is the Rachel Corrie?


[edit on 4-6-2010 by harryhaller]

reply to post by Skellon


No the U.S. has a history of voluntarily investigating war crimes done by their own men. All developed countries do. All Armed Forces have a criminal element in them, but most try to weed them out.

Israel has a history of covering war crimes up and giving the criminals medals and higher positions.

Face facts, you support and elitist group of land grabbers and murderers.
They are as racist and as evil as they come and they need to be stopped.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Skellon

 

No the U.S. has a history of voluntarily investigating war crimes done by their own men. All developed countries do. All Armed Forces have a criminal element in them, but most try to weed them out.

Israel has a history of covering war crimes up and giving the criminals medals and higher positions.

Face facts, you support and elitist group of land grabbers and murderers.
They are as racist and as evil as they come and they need to be stopped.

Each time you post, your argument deteriorates more and more into a personal attack on me, with increasingly greater generalised claims featuring less facts.

Should I take this as a sign that you have nothing of substance to contribute now?

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by thedeadtruth

 

Hi thedeadtruth,

The short answer to your question; No.

If you care to enlighten me with irrefutable evidence of Israeli military forces intentionally killing unarmed civilians, then I will stand corrected.

Also, if you are not able to provide the irrefutable evidence I requested, it may serve to end the use of the label 'murderers' when refering to any military action of the IDF.

Though I doubt it somehow, as ignorant people only believe what they want to believe, even when confronted with facts.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

Interesting position you have. You require so-called "irrefutable" evidence of Israel's wrongdoings before it may be criticised. It sounds like no evidence could possibly satisfy your "irrefutable" standard. But it's designed to be that way, isn't it? Your argument is so transrent it's laughable. And I ROFL at it!

On the other hand, you likely condone Israel's use of of force against others on the basis of the flimsiest evidence imaginable.

Tsk, tsk, we see where you're coming from and what you're all about.

And I must agree with your statement that "* * * ignorant people only believe what they want to believe, even when confronted with facts." It seems that it points right back at you!

[edit on 6/4/2010 by dubiousone]

Contact lost with Gaza aid boat, 'sabotage' blamed [rawstory.com...


Looks like things are heating up over there.

Contact lost with Gaza aid boat, 'sabotage' blamed

Organisers of the Gaza flotilla said they lost contact with the Gaza-bound MV Rachel Corrie on Friday just as they are seeking to delay the latest bid to bust the embargo with an aid-laden ship.

"The situation is we lost all contact with the boat. We assume this was sabotage by the Israelis," said Audrey Bomse of the Free Gaza Movement.

The aid-laden cargo ship carrying Irish and Malaysian activists had set course for a Saturday arrival in Gaza despite warnings by Israel which deployed commandos to halt another six boats on Monday in a botched operation that left nine activists dead.

"As a result of these threats, we're going to pull Rachel Corrie into a port, add more high-profile people on board, and insist that journalists from around the world also come with us," Bomse said.

But organisers said they couldn't communicate the decision to those aboard the vessel, who include an Irish Nobel peace laureate.

"We're hoping communications get turned back on so we can inform them of the decision," Bomse told AFP.

On Thursday afternoon, organisers said the Rachel Corrie was about 250 miles (400 kilometres) from the spot in international waters where six boats were boarded in Monday's raid by Israeli commandos.

reply to post by Skellon


aren't you tired of trying to defend israel in every thread that comes up?
please don't misunderstand me , it;s not an attack or anything , it's just a pure curiosity

I mean since this incident occurred you focused only on threads involving israel and only trying to defend it , even if at first the attempts weren't so blatant , the general idea could easily be spotted

i observed from your lines that your tone is quite different from others , but the idea is the same

I am curios , what make you tick? It's just a personal belief you have , principles of life or just another way of making an income , a way that needs for one to forget everything that is moral , everything that stands to the base of most civilized societies

I repeat myself, don't take it as a personal insult , it is just a big curiosity i am having in the last few days

She could be there by late afternoon, which is only several hours from now.

Activist: Ship could near Gaza by late Friday

NICOSIA, Cyprus — A spokeswoman for a pro-Palestinian group says a cargo ship trying to break the blockade of Gaza could reach Israel's 20-mile (32-kilometer) exclusion zone by late afternoon Friday.

Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza group says the 1,200-ton Rachel Corrie is heading directly to Gaza and will not stop in any port on the way. It is trying to deliver hundreds of tons of aid including building materials and medical supplies.
The cargo ship is trying to run the blockade four days after an Israeli commando raid on a larger flotilla of aid ships resulted in the death of nine activists aboard a Turkish ship.

reply to post by charlie_the_loafer


Hi charlie_the_loafer,

It is a personal belief derived by a long term interest in the Arab-Israeli conflict and habit of mine to be objective. I will admit that in the last few days my being objective has actually led me to defending Israel against overwhelming opposition and has therefore derailed my objectivity in the context of being deemed impartial.

I have a long standing frustration and curiosity of the 'ignorant masses' or 'sheeple'. When I see there is overwhelming faith in one side of an argument, it makes me futher investigate the opposition to that majority belief. This in itself is being 'objective'; examining both sides of an argument.

In the case of the recent flotilla incident, I find myself observing less inconsitencies on the part of Israel than I do of the Arab sourced press.

With investingating or researching this incident, comes the largely used labels of murderers, evil, massacre to describe the actions of the IDF and peace activists, unarmed civilians, aid workers, innocents, blockade breakers etc to describe the flotilla passengers and organisers.

The footage of the 'raid' taken by the Mavi Marmara secuirty cameras, Press.tv, Aljazeera and the IDF tell another story to the one so many have convinced themselves of.

Although posters on here find it fashionable to band about the 'Deny Ignorance' motto as some kind of statement of authority, I question the ignorance of so many involved in this debate the past few days that straight up refuse to believe anything that doesnt support their strong 'anti-Israel' opinion.

I do not hate anyone on here regardless of whether I disagree with them or receive personal insults from them. I try to treat others as I would wish to be treated myself. I appreciate a challenging discussion and respect my opposition except when they reduce themselves to personal attacks on me.

So no, I am not a Jew Lover, IDF serviceman, Mossad agent, Megaphone cell member etc.

I am infact British and an aethist with over 25 years of interest in military history, world politics, conspiracies, philosophy and human behaviour.