Irish ship on collision course with Israeli navy near Gaza

Very interesting development. Pope says he will not attribute this to Turkey. Turkey will attribute to whom? Mentally ill driver or maybe .... Mossad? We'll see.

Pope 'saddened' by murder of Catholic bishop in Turkey

Pope Benedict XVI said he was deeply saddened by the killing of a Catholic bishop in Turkey, but he believed the murder was not politically motivated.

He said he hoped the case would not cloud his visit to Cyprus - the first time a pontiff has gone to the island.

Bishop Luigi Padovese, who was to meet the Pope in Cyprus, was stabbed to death at his home.

His driver, Murat Altun, has been charged with murder. It is thought the man had mental health problems.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Autopsies reveal 9 men on Gaza aid boat shot, 5 in head

www.cnn.com...

In one case, Ince said, a gunshot victim had been shot at at extremely close range.

"From the analysis of the bullet distance on one of the bodies," Dr. Ince said, "the gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters' distance from the victim's head."

In remarks to the press, Yildirim said his colleagues fought Israeli troops in self-defense aboard the Mavi Marmara. He added that in the early stages of the clashes, his activists captured several Israel commandoes, as well as their weapons, and took them below decks.

The Israeli troops were given water, Yildirim said. He insisted none of the activists fired the captured Israeli guns.

Israeli officials have accused the protesters of firing captured weapons during the battle at sea. The Israeli military has also shown images of a commando being beaten with a plastic chair, as well as photos of knives, metal poles, slingshots and marbles as evidence that the Mavi Marmara was a "ship of hatred" full of terrorist sympathizers rather then a "love boat" filled with peace-loving human rights activists.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

/\ /\ Danger, those two above posts have nothing to do with the Rachel Corrie so why are you adding them in this thread?

The Corrie, if they decide to approach will meet the same fate as the freedom floatilla, will be boarded and checked and guided to the other port.

reply to post by captiva

The "Rachel Corrie" carries the hopes and prayers of more than the palestinians in Gaza. It carries the hopes and prayers of everyone who opposes tyranny, murder and imprisonment. With that in mind I can only suggest that the antics online by the Israeli lobby are in fact creating more support from those who were undecided.

I am one who "opposes tyranny, murder and imprisonment." I also oppose most of the Israeli govt policy's.

My hope and prayer is that the captain of any of these blockade runners UNLOAD all of their civilians and take on the blockade THEMSELVES.

The deaths of innocents will not change Israels policy, that much is certain. The only thing these deaths accomplish are propaganda and sensational media.

Human life is too precious to 'used' for political gain. Unload the civilians.

If you know you are going to get stung by bees when fooling with a bees nest, do you still play with it?

Does the political or social objectives of the bees change the fact that you are going to get stung? do you bring your friends and family with you to get stung?

Common sense, if you want to affect change on the blockade, bring bigger guns, not HUMAN SHEILDS! This is immoral.

Originally posted by habfan1968
/\ /\ Danger, those two above posts have nothing to do with the Rachel Corrie so why are you adding them in this thread?

The Corrie, if they decide to approach will meet the same fate as the freedom floatilla, will be boarded and checked and guided to the other port.

Sorry, but it has to do with the whole incident.

The same day flotilla was attacked and massacred by Israeli commandos, Turkish base was attacked by Kurdish rebels, and Turkey accused Mossad of organizing that attack. There is a lot more in play than you would like to present here.

Keep raining.

The Rachel Corrie is expected to arrive at approx 8am Saturday.

A ship carrying aid to Gaza is still heading for the blockaded territory, despite Israel insisting it will not be allowed to dock. The MV Rachel Corrie, which was part of the original Freedom Flotilla intercepted by the Israeli military, leaving nine activists dead, is due to arrive in Gaza at 8am on Saturday, organisers said today.

www.guardian.co.uk...

I hope there will be no more bloodshed-and this time I think there will not be,as I really hope the Israeli Admin do not want any more bad press at this time.

The people on board wish to continue and have said they will sit down,rather than resist any boarding by Israel.
They are carrying cement as part of the aid though,so Israel will take that from them.

Although,saying that this was said by Israel today:

"We have no interest in boarding the ship. If it sails directly to the Ashdod port, we will secure its crew and refrain from boarding it. Israel is prepared to receive the ship and unload its cargo. After it is checked to make sure it contains no weapons we will be prepared to transfer all of the goods to Gaza," he added.

www.ynetnews.com...

I doubt they will let the cement and educational materials through though.
And what does "Secure the crew" mean?
Will they get arrested if they do what Israel ask(go to ashdod,not Gaza)?

reply to post by DangerDeath


The San Remo manual on international law is recognized by the International Committee of the Red Cross as it reflects customary law and is the most recognized standard of international law in the maritime community since the 1909 London Declaration.

It is certainly a tricky legal issue and one that could easily be debated in the International community. However, no one has ever challenged it to a great extent.

reply to post by jibeho

It is certainly a tricky legal issue and one that could easily be debated in the International community. However, no one has ever challenged it to a great extent.

Except that Israel has challenged it to great extent by using it to justify its murderous action.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Autopsies reveal 9 men on Gaza aid boat shot, 5 in head

www.cnn.com...

In one case, Ince said, a gunshot victim had been shot at at extremely close range.

"From the analysis of the bullet distance on one of the bodies," Dr. Ince said, "the gun was fired between 2 and 14 centimeters' distance from the victim's head."

In remarks to the press, Yildirim said his colleagues fought Israeli troops in self-defense aboard the Mavi Marmara. He added that in the early stages of the clashes, his activists captured several Israel commandoes, as well as their weapons, and took them below decks.

The Israeli troops were given water, Yildirim said. He insisted none of the activists fired the captured Israeli guns.

Israeli officials have accused the protesters of firing captured weapons during the battle at sea. The Israeli military has also shown images of a commando being beaten with a plastic chair, as well as photos of knives, metal poles, slingshots and marbles as evidence that the Mavi Marmara was a "ship of hatred" full of terrorist sympathizers rather then a "love boat" filled with peace-loving human rights activists.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

THe IDF are highly skilled in CQB with small arms and the head shots are no surprise especially if the combatants were wearing body armor as has been reported.

reply to post by jibeho


So you believe the IDF were shooting to kill? Wearing body armor and getting hit with a bullet would still put you to the ground, but they found the need to use head shots. Interesting, sorry for off topic post.

It looks like this may be delayed for a few days


Gaza flotilla organizers may recall 'Rachel Corrie'

Audrey Bomse, one of the organizers of the Gaza aid flotilla told Ynet that following Israel's sabotage of the press ship meant to follow the "Rachel Corrie" en route to Gaza, her group intends on calling the vessel back, pending repairs.

Bomse noted that her group has not been able to contact the ship since late Thursday night, adding it may indicate that "Israel sabotaged the radio system." (Ynet)

source

The Free Gaza Movement is planning to step up its challenge to Israel's blockade of Gaza by filling its Rachel Corrie ship with celebrities and journalists and sending it to the Palestinian territory as early as next week. The Irish boat, named after an American member of the International Solidarity Movement who was killed by an Israeli Defence Force bulldozer, had been expected to reach Gaza at the weekend but the organisers yesterday decided to bring it into port in Greece or Turkey. "We will bring her in and put more high profile people on, as many journalists as we can, and send her with at least one support vessel," said Greta Berlin, a spokeswoman for Free Gaza. "People like Bianca Jagger have expressed an interest in the past along with others with a high profile and we will try and see if they really want to."

It looks like they will dock in Greece or Turkey & suggests at least one support vessel will accompany the Rachel Corrie back to Gaza next week. Given Turkeys earlier statements of a naval convoy supporting future flotilla's, the support vessels could be military.

reply to post by harryhaller


A naval blockade is an act of war, thus they are at war with Gaza.

Thus is it a legal blockade.

Look it up before you troll.

Originally posted by anthbes
reply to post by jibeho

 

So you believe the IDF were shooting to kill? Wearing body armor and getting hit with a bullet would still put you to the ground, but they found the need to use head shots. Interesting, sorry for off topic post.

After being ambushed, clubbed and stabbed I'm sure that they were probably shooting to kill. I also have no doubt that the militants on board these vessels probably seized a handgun or two from the IDF soldiers that they mobbed and bludgeoned.

Furthermore, Any police officer in the US is trained to shoot to kill if they are threatened or attacked with deadly force. One of the IDF soldiers had to pull a knife out of his belly and there is video of another soldier being stabbed in the upper torso/shoulder area. That is considered deadly force. I wouldn't expect a kiss on the cheek from anyone that you choose to beat or stab.

Hi Everyone...

I was doing a search for an update on the situation with the Rachel Corrie and came across this site which is claiming to be showing the live webcast from the boat.

They dont seem to be showing it at the moment however it may be worth keeping an eye on it..

My apols if this has already been posted, i didnt notice it while reading through.

Heres the link:

Live Web Cast - Rachel Corrie

Hope it helps,

Have a great day

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

So tell me, why doesn't the Irish ship send aid to other nations that need it even more?... For example Cuba and Haiti?

Because as far as i can tell, and correct me if i'm wrong, but Cuba and Haiti do not have an immoral, neighbour that likes to systematically butcher their citizens including women and children over decades, and enforce arrogant and illegal naval blockades, with yet more murder and brutality.

Do they!

I think that just about covers your 'question'. Do let me know if you need to know anything else screamingly obvious, and i'll try to help.

reply to post by jibeho

After being ambushed, clubbed and stabbed I'm sure that they were probably shooting to kill. I also have no doubt that the militants on board these vessels probably seized a handgun or two from the IDF soldiers that they mobbed and bludgeoned.

Oh grow up, please!

Ambushed?!! The IDF...ambushed!! Are you out of your block or something pal?

Are you forgetting the IDF murderers and pirates, were the one's rappelling down assault ropes from hovering helicopters?

What...do you think the videos of aid personnel swarming around the decks, during the assault were...hiding? Laying in wait, for the poor innocent IDF butchers?

Get real, if your going to type rubbish, at least try to make it read sensibly.

And you recon a least a couple of IDF 'handguns' were taken by the aid personnel do you? Why not a couple of rifles? A few grenades?

Don't you think that IF that were so, there would have been a *slight* chance that when they were being fired upon with automatic rifles and in the process of being murdered, they would have USED THE WEAPONS if they had them?!

Strewth, give me strength.

reply to post by TheSam

00:26
"they've raised the white flag, this after Israeli commandos descended upon the ship"

03:42
No, there's no doubt from what I saw that there was live fire before any Israeli soldier was on deck"

Why not raise the white flag when the "there was live fire before any Israeli soldier was on deck"?

04:10
"you could almost see the umm soldiers pointing their guns down through some sort of hole or compartment at the bottom side of the helicopter and firing almost indescriminately without even looking where they were firing"

Do you see a "some sort of hole or compartment at the bottom side of the helicopter"?

If we have trained soldiers "firing almost indescriminately without even looking where they were firing" from the blackhawk above, then why did they even bother attempting to board the ship, as obviously he is insinuating that they were killing with intent, so why did they not just drop a laser guided bomb on the ship therefore giving them the deniability that so many here accuse them of in "cover ups". They would have also not risked their own soldiers lives by doing this.

You may respond back by saying that they were not out to kill everyone, only specific targets as implied by the alleged 'kill list' shown.

Then I would have to ask why, according to this reporter were they "firing almost indiscriminatley"?


05:45

"what took place was umm during the period when they first spotted the Israeli ships at a distance and then when the Israelis came, uh the passengers uh took apart some of the railing bars on the side of the ships"

In the video below we see that they have already taken apart iron raillings in this short time period from the "ships"




In the video below we see the water being sprayed but we also see large chains being swung, a stack of dinner plates being dropped onto the soldiers and what appears to be a stun/smoke grenade thrown into the 'raider style' boat.






A closing short piece of video from youtube that Aljazeera has chosen to miss out a few times in its reporting of the incident.

Nobodyatlocalhost - @Burrrry6969
"That, even though it's plain to see from the facts that Israel acted appropriately in this situation, the world's opinion of what happened is unchanged. That is, popular opinion on the matter is based on antisemitism and hatred of Israel."

Hard to disagree with this.



[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by ErEhWoN



I totally agree with you ErEhWoN, it is a total sign of negligence for the lives of the people that choose to make this voyage.

It is an act of stupidity, politcal provocation, irresponsibility and defiance.

The same can be said about the wastefull loss of life that was Rachel Corries', the ship's name sake.

If the IDF was "indiscriminately" firing guns from the air, at the flotilla, why were only the people on the one boat that fought back actually injured? Wouldn't the IDF have been firing at any or all of the boats from the air? Wouldn't there be injuries from other ships?

Also, if the claim that the flotilla participants on the boat that fought back did not use guns, how did some of the IDF soldiers get shot? It is my understanding that some flotilla participants got the guns from the IDF soldiers and used them. The only other option is some of the IDF soldiers accidentally shot others...

To be somewhat on topic, the Rachel Corrie sounds like it is going to go for the peaceful/passive method of protesting and will probably allow the IDF to escort it to their port. I did hear that Israel considers cement to be something that can be used by terrorists. That seems like a pretty minor issue to me, but anyways.

Organisers 'lose contact' with Gaza aid boat

Organisers of the Gaza flotilla said they lost contact with the Gaza-bound MV Rachel Corrie on Friday just as they are seeking to delay the latest bid to bust the embargo with an aid-laden ship.

The ship had been on course for arrival in the Palestinian enclave on Saturday, just five days after Israeli commandos killed nine activists aboard a Gaza-bound aid flotilla in a botched raid that plunged Israel into a diplomatic crisis.

"The situation is we lost all contact with the boat. We assume this was sabotage by the Israelis," said Audrey Bomse of the Free Gaza Movement.

SOURCE

Israeli sabotage? She may be jumping to early conclusions, but it cannot be ruled out.

[edit on 4/6/2010 by stannis]