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Irish ship on collision course with Israeli navy near Gaza
page: 23share:
reply to post by caverjamie
Cement and building materials are banned by Israel as they have been used in the past for creating tunnels to smuggle weapons and arms across the border into Gaza.
Cement and building materials are banned by Israel as they have been used in the past for creating tunnels to smuggle weapons and arms across the border into Gaza.
Originally posted by DangerDeath
Originally posted by habfan1968
/\ /\ Danger, those two above posts have nothing to do with the Rachel Corrie so why are you adding them in this thread?
The Corrie, if they decide to approach will meet the same fate as the freedom floatilla, will be boarded and checked and guided to the other port.
Sorry, but it has to do with the whole incident.
The same day flotilla was attacked and massacred by Israeli commandos, Turkish base was attacked by Kurdish rebels, and Turkey accused Mossad of organizing that attack. There is a lot more in play than you would like to present here.
Keep raining.
agreed it is relevent
we need peace, some way ,some kind of lever even a hammer to use on them all.to make them sit down and they can not leave without a positive result ,
[edit on 6/4/2010 by dashar]
reply to post by stannis
I believe this is old news friend and that the Rachel Corrie is now expected to arrive tomorrow.
The Rachel Corrie was part of the original Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla but fell behind due to mechanical problems.
I believe this is old news friend and that the Rachel Corrie is now expected to arrive tomorrow.
The Rachel Corrie was part of the original Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla but fell behind due to mechanical problems.
Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by stannis
I believe this is old news friend and that the Rachel Corrie is now expected to arrive tomorrow.
8 AM Tel Aviv time I believe. If so that's 8 hrs from now.
Remember Edward Norton character in "The Score"?
www.imdb.com...
He played a retarded boy, actually a thief preparing a big theft.
Bishops driver was (mentally) ill, was taking medication...
This kind of medication usually doesn't go well with driving...
Put on your conspiracy gear and tell me is it possible that this guy was planted by someone (Mossad?) and activated at the right moment, the moment when Vatican puts some pressure on Israel to ease its grip and allow people to breathe. "Coincidentally", Turkey puts pressure on Israel too, apparently bigger pressure then Vatican, but who knows? I think we should carefully monitor the moves of Vatican in this show.
[edit on 4-6-2010 by DangerDeath]
www.imdb.com...
He played a retarded boy, actually a thief preparing a big theft.
Bishops driver was (mentally) ill, was taking medication...
This kind of medication usually doesn't go well with driving...
Put on your conspiracy gear and tell me is it possible that this guy was planted by someone (Mossad?) and activated at the right moment, the moment when Vatican puts some pressure on Israel to ease its grip and allow people to breathe. "Coincidentally", Turkey puts pressure on Israel too, apparently bigger pressure then Vatican, but who knows? I think we should carefully monitor the moves of Vatican in this show.
[edit on 4-6-2010 by DangerDeath]
One of the articles that I read said that the ship would stay in international waters so Israel would have to interdict the ship well off the
coast.
So, it they will remain in international waters while Israel waits within their coastal limits, what will happen?
So, it they will remain in international waters while Israel waits within their coastal limits, what will happen?
reply to post by backwherewestarted
You're kind of a fool aren't you. The MSM is totaly pro Israel on this one in case you haven't noticed. The truth is that people died because of the way Israel handled the situation. If they had boarded after the ship crossed out of international waters, in daylight from boats instead of helicopters it is very likely that nobody would have been killed. And incase you hadn't noticed, none of the commandos were on that list of dead people. The picture of the weapons collected by Israeli forces consisted of kitchen knives and wrenches. Boarding a ship without permission in international waters is called piracy and is ilegal.
You're kind of a fool aren't you. The MSM is totaly pro Israel on this one in case you haven't noticed. The truth is that people died because of the way Israel handled the situation. If they had boarded after the ship crossed out of international waters, in daylight from boats instead of helicopters it is very likely that nobody would have been killed. And incase you hadn't noticed, none of the commandos were on that list of dead people. The picture of the weapons collected by Israeli forces consisted of kitchen knives and wrenches. Boarding a ship without permission in international waters is called piracy and is ilegal.
What I laugh at is the description of the "botched" landing on the last ship. How was it botched ? They went there to kill people and they did.
Maybe they mean they did not kill enough ?
Just like the founding fathers if Israel, they had murderous intent long before they arrived. " We turned up with guns and were attacked with tools, so we had to fight back ".
Same story just different year. Pathetic and transparent.
Just like the founding fathers if Israel, they had murderous intent long before they arrived. " We turned up with guns and were attacked with tools, so we had to fight back ".
Same story just different year. Pathetic and transparent.
Originally posted by intrepid
Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by stannis
I believe this is old news friend and that the Rachel Corrie is now expected to arrive tomorrow.
8 AM Tel Aviv time I believe. If so that's 8 hrs from now.
Thank you Intrepid for the confirmation.
2nd line.
Originally posted by Skellon
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread578409/pg20#pid8947399]post by TheSam
00:26
"they've raised the white flag, this after Israeli commandos descended upon the ship"
03:42
No, there's no doubt from what I saw that there was live fire before any Israeli soldier was on deck"
Why not raise the white flag when the "there was live fire before any Israeli soldier was on deck"?
Let's not forget this raid by the IDF was at 4am & still under the cover of darkness. I'd imagine most of the crew were surprised at this & there was a lot of panic and confusion which could easily lead to a delay to raise the flag.
04:10
"you could almost see the umm soldiers pointing their guns down through some sort of hole or compartment at the bottom side of the helicopter and firing almost indescriminately without even looking where they were firing"
Do you see a "some sort of hole or compartment at the bottom side of the helicopter"?
Neither you, nor I were on the boat to see if the helicopter did indeed have an underneath hatch to fire from so this question is moot. I don't think the Israeli govt will be in a rush to show us the blueprints for those choppers either
If we have trained soldiers "firing almost indescriminately without even looking where they were firing" from the blackhawk above, then why did they even bother attempting to board the ship, as obviously he is insinuating that they were killing with intent, so why did they not just drop a laser guided bomb on the ship therefore giving them the deniability that so many here accuse them of in "cover ups". They would have also not risked their own soldiers lives by doing this.
You may respond back by saying that they were not out to kill everyone, only specific targets as implied by the alleged 'kill list' shown.
Then I would have to ask why, according to this reporter were they "firing almost indiscriminatley"?
05:45
"what took place was umm during the period when they first spotted the Israeli ships at a distance and then when the Israelis came, uh the passengers uh took apart some of the railing bars on the side of the ships"
In the video below we see that they have already taken apart iron raillings in this short time period from the "ships"
In the video below we see the water being sprayed but we also see large chains being swung, a stack of dinner plates being dropped onto the soldiers and what appears to be a stun/smoke grenade thrown into the 'raider style' boat.
A closing short piece of video from youtube that Aljazeera has chosen to miss out a few times in its reporting of the incident.
Nobodyatlocalhost - @Burrrry6969
"That, even though it's plain to see from the facts that Israel acted appropriately in this situation, the world's opinion of what happened is unchanged. That is, popular opinion on the matter is based on antisemitism and hatred of Israel."
Hard to disagree with this.
[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]
The footage of them trying to prevent being boarded may be a bit extreme yes, but you will see some similar methods in videos how big ships like whaling boats use water cannons to defend against whaling protestors.
But let's not forget, this was a bloodbath where the latest reports are stating 19 dead, 50+ injured/wounded & many more (mainly journalists) still unaccounted for. Where is all the footage of these killings? How come the only clips of the massacre we are seeing is the victims onboard fighting back? Why is there no wrong doing by Israel on video?
All the video equiptment aboard all ships/passengers in the flotilla were confiscated. This means Israel has ALL the video footage of the events but will only release clips which show Israel as the victim & the activists as terrorists!
None of us living in a western democracy can judge Israel's actions. Every day Israel struggles to survive in a hostile area. Unfortunately Israel
has to take action sometimes and commit acts that many other countries are lucky to never have to commit.
Israel will never see peace because they continually turned their back on God, and that is their punishment. By the same token, they will never be overcome because God has promised to never destroy them.
Israel will never see peace because they continually turned their back on God, and that is their punishment. By the same token, they will never be overcome because God has promised to never destroy them.
reply to post by TheSam
I totally agree with your last point, very valid indeed.
The answer is of course, we have no idea what happened after the footage ended.
But why assume the very worst?
The footage is not just IDF sourced, it is also sourced from Aljazeera(Arab) and Press.tv(Iran) and the boarding of the ship via helicopter is covered by both 'opponents' or sides..
I am just dealing with what we know rather than what we don't.
I will not defend the IDF in acts that I have no evidence regarding.
I could formulate what i would consider an educated assumption, but that is all it would be.
What angers me is that we have two sides debating here on ATS, one side is using the footage as evidence, the other side is largely dismissing the footage and replacing the reality with fantasy even though the footage is also Arab sourced.
This fact goes against the sites motto of "Deny Ignorance".
[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]
I totally agree with your last point, very valid indeed.
The answer is of course, we have no idea what happened after the footage ended.
But why assume the very worst?
The footage is not just IDF sourced, it is also sourced from Aljazeera(Arab) and Press.tv(Iran) and the boarding of the ship via helicopter is covered by both 'opponents' or sides..
I am just dealing with what we know rather than what we don't.
I will not defend the IDF in acts that I have no evidence regarding.
I could formulate what i would consider an educated assumption, but that is all it would be.
What angers me is that we have two sides debating here on ATS, one side is using the footage as evidence, the other side is largely dismissing the footage and replacing the reality with fantasy even though the footage is also Arab sourced.
This fact goes against the sites motto of "Deny Ignorance".
[edit on 4-6-2010 by Skellon]
Hmmm i'm now torn on who to side with.
After seeing those videos which you cannot doubt.. i think the IDF were right to do what they did.
Seems it was a small portion of the hundreds of passengers.
What i want to see is exactly how it started..if the IDF opened fire first before boarding then yeah the IDF deserves a few smashed skulls and gunshot wounds. Now if the so called activists attacked the IDF first then yeah they deserve everything they got.
The Rachel Corrie crew has stated that if the IDF board their ship via boat or helicopter they will sit on the deck with a white flag they have nothing to hide.
The IDF have to be even more careful now as there are nobel peace prize winners and veteran activists on board. If a bloodbath occurs on the Rachel Corrie then it's tragic due to the namesake.
EDIT: that bloody video from the ship security camera is a green screen! It's a fake!
Look at the waves and how the men look directly at the camera.
[edit on 17/05/09 by Raider of Truth]
After seeing those videos which you cannot doubt.. i think the IDF were right to do what they did.
Seems it was a small portion of the hundreds of passengers.
What i want to see is exactly how it started..if the IDF opened fire first before boarding then yeah the IDF deserves a few smashed skulls and gunshot wounds. Now if the so called activists attacked the IDF first then yeah they deserve everything they got.
The Rachel Corrie crew has stated that if the IDF board their ship via boat or helicopter they will sit on the deck with a white flag they have nothing to hide.
The IDF have to be even more careful now as there are nobel peace prize winners and veteran activists on board. If a bloodbath occurs on the Rachel Corrie then it's tragic due to the namesake.
EDIT: that bloody video from the ship security camera is a green screen! It's a fake!
Look at the waves and how the men look directly at the camera.
[edit on 17/05/09 by Raider of Truth]
that first video that is 2:25 long looks fake at the end, like it has footage from beach waves....
Originally posted by OverSword
reply to post by backwherewestarted
You're kind of a fool aren't you. The MSM is totaly pro Israel on this one in case you haven't noticed. The truth is that people died because of the way Israel handled the situation. If they had boarded after the ship crossed out of international waters, in daylight from boats instead of helicopters it is very likely that nobody would have been killed. And incase you hadn't noticed, none of the commandos were on that list of dead people. The picture of the weapons collected by Israeli forces consisted of kitchen knives and wrenches. Boarding a ship without permission in international waters is called piracy and is ilegal.
Awww, how cute another person who starts off with insults. Why is it that you anti-Israel people always start off with insults?
The truth is that people died because of the way one of the six ship decided to act.
Why would any commandos be on the list of the dead? They are trained to defend themselves.
Boarding a ship is not piracy, but people like you prefer not to understand things like that in order to spew your anti-Israel venom.
Anything else I can shred?
The one thing in all these threads about this that I find interesting is how the anti-Israel people will tout any quote or clip of someone claiming
Israel did bad things but will immediately shoo away any quote or clip that says the opposite using reasoning that would shoot down their quote or
video.
LIVE reports of warships alongside rachel
corrie......www.livestream.com...
Nation unknown 30 miles from gaza
[edit on 4-6-2010 by gambon]
Nation unknown 30 miles from gaza
[edit on 4-6-2010 by gambon]
reply to post by OverSword
Ok I will explain this for the last time.. I have relayed the LAW several times .. Now sit down turn off the TV and listen closly!
The blockade has been in place long enough ...it's practicly grandfathered in.
It is a legal blockade. Fact! look it up.. You may not like it (like alot of the planet) But it is a legal blockade! It may be morally wrong ...but to repeat myself ... IT IS A LEGAL BLOCKADE..With that being said.. A ship CAN be boarded and stopped IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS to enforce before mentioned LEGAL blockade. Now.. With that FACT out there...
The law states .. To repeat again.. comprehension is low on this thread.
THE LAW STATES.
According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994:
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.
For those that think this was piracy:
the definition of piracy under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, section 101, is clear that piracy can only occur where there are “illegal acts of violence or detention” that are “committed for private ends.” Israeli actions were legal under the law of armed conflict (as evidenced by the San Remo Manual) and in any event, were not committed for private ends. Anyone using the term piracy to describe the Israeli action is clearly not aware of international law on the subject.
Some more raw facts on the matter. Blame the captain of any ship that chooses to violate a blockade for any repercussions that follow.
* A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
* Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
* A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.
The blockade might be wrong.. I 100% agree.. But as of right now it is LEGAL and boarding that ship was LEGAL.
If you have proof otherwise..other than feelings and opinions..please share .. If not.. STOP SAYING PIRACY!!!
Now that you have facts..dispute the facts... or just stop lying and making up truths!
Ok I will explain this for the last time.. I have relayed the LAW several times .. Now sit down turn off the TV and listen closly!
The blockade has been in place long enough ...it's practicly grandfathered in.
It is a legal blockade. Fact! look it up.. You may not like it (like alot of the planet) But it is a legal blockade! It may be morally wrong ...but to repeat myself ... IT IS A LEGAL BLOCKADE..With that being said.. A ship CAN be boarded and stopped IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS to enforce before mentioned LEGAL blockade. Now.. With that FACT out there...
The law states .. To repeat again.. comprehension is low on this thread.
THE LAW STATES.
According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994:
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.
For those that think this was piracy:
the definition of piracy under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, section 101, is clear that piracy can only occur where there are “illegal acts of violence or detention” that are “committed for private ends.” Israeli actions were legal under the law of armed conflict (as evidenced by the San Remo Manual) and in any event, were not committed for private ends. Anyone using the term piracy to describe the Israeli action is clearly not aware of international law on the subject.
Some more raw facts on the matter. Blame the captain of any ship that chooses to violate a blockade for any repercussions that follow.
* A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
* Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
* A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.
The blockade might be wrong.. I 100% agree.. But as of right now it is LEGAL and boarding that ship was LEGAL.
If you have proof otherwise..other than feelings and opinions..please share .. If not.. STOP SAYING PIRACY!!!
Now that you have facts..dispute the facts... or just stop lying and making up truths!
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