Irish ship on collision course with Israeli navy near Gaza

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
The only thing that will make this go away is if The Palestinians vote Hamas OUT!

Now that's damn interesting. I haven't Googled it yet but I'm curious as to when their next elections are. That said, IF it's a fair vote and they vote Hamas back in, what would that say?

reply to post by rationaluser


Thanks for the comments rationaluser. I also don't want to see anybody hurt on the Irish ship. Maybe cooler heads will prevail this time around.

I at least think there's a chance for civility.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
The only thing that will make this go away is if The Palestinians vote Hamas OUT!

Now that's damn interesting. I haven't Googled it yet but I'm curious as to when their next elections are. That said, IF it's a fair vote and they vote Hamas back in, what would that say?

That would say that the people of Gaza would rather be bombed back into the stone age on a regular basis than reject the leadership of an international terrorist organization, which has earned the worlds condemnation for its terrible acts.

reply to post by intrepid


The sad thing is that yeah .. Hammas is largely responsible for most of the terrorist attacks against Israel.. But Hammas was (maybe still is I don't know) Palestine biggest charity and social networking provider.. I remember when Hammas won the election, TIME did a bit going to small villages and people were in shock mayors actually showed up for work. Before the last election they purely worked behind the scenes..

The reason Israel threw a hissy fit (and tried to spark a civil war) was that once Arafat had gone to hell .. I mean died.. the game changed. It was easy with arafat.. park a few tanks in front of his "compound" and preach to him while he ate caviar and enjoyed is western luxuries. Then eventually he would do whatever they wanted him to do, until a few months later. Worked well for both sides I think.

www.jpost.com...

July 17th 2010 is the next municipal election.

[edit on 6/3/2010 by Rockpuck]

Luck 'o the Irish!

Come on me boyos!

Well..thats a very distant family ancestor talking

reply to post by Chamberf=6


And NATO

USA and NATO/EU means ouch time for Israel.

As a an earlier poster said if they use kid gloves it will antagonise the Turkish more and if they attack the ship like with the Turkish one the outcry will be far worse.

I guess the Rachel Corrie should be there within the next 48 hours judging by the 31st May position.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


That post alone is why i love the Irish!

There are only two peoples in the world you should fear and that is the Irish and the Scottish.

Combine them both and may God have mercy on all your souls

Getting on a ship with the intention of delivering aid is noble.

Getting on a ship with the intention of delivering aid knowing that you will not get there is illogical.

Getting on a ship with the intention of delivering aid knowing that nine people recently lost their lives doing the exact same thing is stupid.



To conclude; Boarding the Rachel Corrie whilst knowing that you fit into the latter two points, can only be descibed as an act of stupidity, political provocation and defiance not to mention that you are responsible for encouraging more 'like minded' people to follow your example with no guarantee for their safety.

You may not resist the boarding yourself, but can you trust others not to risk the lives of yourself and the passengers on that vessel?

Coming back with the argument that Israel has no right to board the vessel is irrelevant as you know it did and you know it will.

Therefore all of the above is correct.



[edit on 3-6-2010 by Skellon]

now that i understand the person of which this irish boat is named after (and her stupidity), i am ever so slightly starting to lean on the side of others here on ats that have said that this is nothing but a planned provacation against israel....

and if they are there to provoke under the guise of bringing aid relief, and the same scenario breaks out, well it will serve them right, they are a civil registered ship so the same laws apply, the irish government can only do so much as protest....

reply to post by Skellon


Have you heard the saying....

" if you want to try and change something, be prepared to make enemies "

Not everybody wants to play it safe. That is where heroes come from.

reply to post by StealthKix


A lot of people are saying that Israel is breaking international law - specifically due to intercepting the ships in international waters. Here is a pertinent quote:

"The Israeli blockade itself against Gaza itself is not illegal, and it's okay for Israeli ships to operate in international waters to enforce it," said Allen Weiner, former State Department lawyer and legal counselor at the American Embassy in the Hague, and now a professor at Stanford Law School. Beyond that, he said, Israel has a legal obligation to allow humanitarian goods into Gaza and to exercise proportionality in the use of force.


Here are the facts in my mind. Israel pulled out of gaza in August 2005. Since the time they left, over 6000 rockets have been fired from gaza, as far as I can tell from my internet research. If I was Israel and 6000+ rockets had been fired at me, I would be pretty pissed. Actually I would make them pay dearly, I'd kill two of them for every one citizen killed in my own country. So I suppose it's good I'm not in charge.

Look, anyone with a brain knows how this is playing out. Israel, past and present, exists on land that the muslims claim is theirs. They want it, and all of it. Not all of them want all of it, but some of them want all of it back. It doesn't take that many to screw it up for everyone by hiding in the population and firing off rockets, blowing themselves up, etc. Israel will never stop getting rockets fired at it, will never stop being pestered until they can convince all muslims, everywhere that the fight is utterly hopeless. That Israel is here to stay - and that Israel gets to keep the current land base (1/19th the size of california - versus their 22 surrounding arab neighbor countries with a land base 640 times the size of Israel). I found that information: www.masada2000.org...

People will always blame Israel as the aggressor, but it seems to me that they have to, because everytime they give up land, the other side claims victory and uses it as a rallying cry to get more land back, with the end result being the elimination of what is now Israel in exchange for another arab controlled country.

I am suspicious of people against Israel, because Israel is SO SMALL. They aren't trying to take any MORE land, and in fact pulled out of areas under their control (gaza, west bank, siani). Why would so many people make such a big deal out of such a small amount of land. I mean, just look at the size of all their neighbors. Part of what is now Jordan was supposed to be "Palestine" after British rule in 1948 but was pretty much annexed by Jordan. This is all pretty fishy. What gives the United States the right to Texas versus Mexico for example. No one is asking us to give that back. As far as I see it, when the British pulled out, it was everyone for themselves, and Israel won some land, I say let them keep it, we sure did. They don't even want any more, and they have less than most states!!

By the way, I've been subscribed to ATS news for several months, but this issue is the first that got me riled up enough to actually post something....

Originally posted by Raider of Truth
reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

That post alone is why i love the Irish!

There are only two peoples in the world you should fear and that is the Irish and the Scottish.

Combine them both and may God have mercy on all your souls

Here's some peoples to be afraid of:

Scary Group 1
Scary Group 2
Scary Group 3
Scary Group 4
Scary Group 5
Scary Group 6
Scary Group 7

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by vagabondrobb

 

Brave and inspirational???? OMFG.. Our planet is doomed. I hope they charged that guys family for the clean up of his flat butt. Then make them clean the tank treds. If you feel strongly about something.... What good will you do for the cause after you are dead? Live to fight another day.. Laying down in front of heavy equipment = S-T-U-P-I-D

That's honestly a disgusting statement.
The tiananmen protests are some of the biggest inspirations for anti-war protests and anti-war activists today, and for you to say it's stupid, because of the fact that this man could have died by being crushed is honestly revolting. This man didn't even die from that, he apparantly was executed by the chinese government afterwords, would he live if he hadn't have done it? Sure, but would he have lived with himself after he let tanks go and murder innocent people?



[edit on 3-6-2010 by hippomchippo]

Agreed, some things are better left unsaid. That man had more guts than 100,000 of your average American and he is nothing short of a hero in my book. Vagabondrobb, please think before you speak.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by UndergroundMilitia]

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by Skellon

 

Have you heard the saying....

" if you want to try and change something, be prepared to make enemies "

Not everybody wants to play it safe. That is where heroes come from.

So essentially you are saying "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs" ?

The wall around Israel protects Israelis from the rest of the world...

We should start sending humanitarian aid to Israel...

Break the blockade there

Not eggs...

Breaking evil and ignorance will be enough.

Notice you still have not answered my question about 60 yrs with not 1 investigation leading to a prosecution.

Must be uncomfortable to be on the obviously dishonest evil side while patting yourself on the back.

Seriously.
The blockade in the worlds MSM is nothing compared to the blockade in Israel.
Just take a look at Jerusalem Post or other media there.
Does any one know if they have filtered Internet there?

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
Heres an update of the progress of the Rachel Corrie

[url=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0603/[/url]

Former UN official Denis Halliday who is onboard and currently in Libyan waters said : “We want to emphasise that our aim is not provocation but getting our aid cargo into Gaza” "We are calling on the UN to inspect the cargo and escort us into Gaza, he said, adding “we all remain in good spirits”.

They are bringing medical supplies and construction equipment some of which is banned, so they know if the ship were to dock in Ashdod for Israeli inspection then none of these types of supplies would get to reach Gaza.

I think the UN should agree to inspect the ship on behalf of the Israelis so then they could be assured that the ship is not full of weapons

:

So you admit they are bringing things that are banned but still cling to the load of excrement that they are not trying to provoke? Get real.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by backwherewestarted

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by backwherewestarted

 

I would say murdering innocent civilians is 'creating an incident', and that already happened.

Innocent civilians? It's actually frightening watching people like you buy into the BS shoveled by the MSM.

And this is how you can tell a paid damage control shill.

The BS shoveled by the MSM? The american MSM is clearly pro-israel. Either the conservative FOX or "liberal" CNN, both sides have blatantly shown to be pro israel and anti flotilla.

You can see the tactic here is trying to make Israel appear as though everyone is against her, and everyone is just an anti-semite, even though the US "response" to a NATO ally being attacked has been weak, and the excuse given is our "special" relationship with israel.

You should try reading the full thread before posting responses, so you don't look foolish.