Plane crashes into Austin building

Some here was asking "how bad it could have been? he owned a place. how many of us own a plane?"

I believe he owed a lot of money to the IRS, and if he decided to actually pay, the plane would have been gone. So instead of selling it, he gave it to them in alternate way.

He isn't suicidal. He's homocidal. And willing to use himself as part of the weapon. It isn't the same thing.

Quoting of literature isn't exactly novel in suicide noties either.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
Very interesting words. It seems rather odd to me that a suicidal man would take the time to quote Einstein and Shakespeare?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
If he was angry at the IRS...he took out his anger on the wrong people...he attacked the workers and not the IRS.

Exactly my point...

If his motivation was to kill civilians in furtherance of an anti-government/anti-taxation stance, then it was an act of terrorism.

If his motivation was revenge against "The IRS" regardless of who was in the building, then it was an act of a pathologically disturbed individual.

From his writings & family issues, I'm leaning to the later.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by thomasblackraven

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
If he was angry at the IRS...he took out his anger on the wrong people...he attacked the workers and not the IRS.

Exactly my point...

If his motivation was to kill civilians in furtherance of an anti-government/anti-taxation stance, then it was an act of terrorism.

If his motivation was revenge against "The IRS" regardless of who was in the building, then it was an act of a pathologically disturbed individual.

From his writings & family issues, I'm leaning to the later.

reply to post by triplescorpio


I don't know about you but... myself as long as I have been able to write, as well as many others since, oh, I dunno, the early 1900's have "petitioned the government" for redress of grievances.

I'm sure that is coming any day now right? They were just saving that for when they can do it all together at one time.

The Colonists said "Hey King George, we don't want these taxes." and he taxed them harder. We say "Hey government, we don't want these taxes/war/health care/ ect." and they push them harder.

How is this any different whatsoever than to what happened in the times of Revolution? I'll tell you.

Instead of King George being 3000 miles away, he sits on our doorsteps just a few miles away in any direction. Sometimes he is watching from your back window, or watching through your computer as you type.

reply to post by Rising Against


Well, for somebody to take a plane loaded with fuel, run it into a building, and kill nobody, if it was as packed as you say, Well then I think he should have been playing the lottery instead cause I don't believe anyone gets that lucky.

I just can't believe that a man who's had that many run-ins with the IRS would not know that a much bigger IRS building is so close by, with so many more workers in it, if his plan was to kill people.

It is my observations over time that tell me, if his goal was murdering people, he would have done so already. You think somebody so bloodthirsty would spend over 20 years fighting the establishment by non-violent means?

If the guy was as bloodthirsty as you make him out to be, he would have gotten a gun and shot up an IRS building the first time they screwed him. People that are blood thirsty are looking for an excuse to kill.

I'm betting his main priority was causing as much damage to an IRS building as possible, and the people were collateral damage. Not kill as many as possible, and the building damage is an indirect benefit to his cause.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by grimreaper797]

reply to post by thomasblackraven


What! flying a plane into a building is no longer an act of terror then!!

Wow that really is surprising to hear.

Maybe if he had darker skin and prayed to a different God people would be leaning towards branding him a terrorist!

www.businessinsider.com...

Joseph Andrew Stack Did Software Work For Hughes Aircraft, Warner Bros Studios Stores, More

Software engineer Joseph Andrew Stack, the pilot who intentionally crashed a plane in Texas this morning, did contract work for several companies including Hughes Aircraft, Equinox Industries/Warner Brothers Studio Stores, Sorrento Electronics, according to his business website

Interstate Electronics Corporation
Project: IEC 9002 GPS-based Flight Management System
Project: The IEC 9002 Navigation Database Update Processor, a Windows-based, off-line data reduction tool
Project: IEC 9002 MCDU, an ARINC-739 compatible Multi-purpose Control and Display Unit
Project: GPS Satellite Simulator (Military & Commercial unit)
Project: IEC Military Plasma Display, an 80186/82720-based "intelligent" terminal boasting multi-mode text graphics display, ANSI Standard compatibility, multiple virtual screens, and downloadable display generation capabilityEverett Charles Technologies
Project: ECT 9090(tm) Bare Board Tester

[edit on 18-2-2010 by JBA2848]

It is disturbing that though this guy brought his situation upon himself, people are so eager to find a martyr to follow that they are ignoring the facts.
People need to think.

Wow, took me an hour to get caught up. I just read everything including his manifesto.

His story in the manifesto does not quite jive entirely with his life. He owned a private plane (I can not afford one, so he makes more than me and I earn around 100K) the house he lived in and left a family behind.

If you read between the lines, he basically repeatedly tried to find loopholes in the tax law to get out of paying, trying to imitate big business and kept getting caught and having to start over. I'm familiar with the tax law he cites and it is not as hard to understand as he represents it to be.

Add to that the people who work in an IRS building are not the IRS but just ordinary people like the rest of us and realize that is who he wanted to kill; you get somebody not in their right mind. This is no different than had he flown it into a shopping mall. The people he attacked were not his perceived enemy, so this is sadly an attempt to murder / slaughter innocent people. This ranks right up there with the lunacy and insanity of the Terrorist mindset, where the killing of innocent people is justified due to some indefensible notion, killing innocent people is somehow right.

Also reading between the lines, he was angry he could not continue charging clients ridiculous rates in Texas like he was in California where overcharging is par for the course. He had to compete and he was not used to that.

All in all, this is very sad and my heart goes out to the victims and their families as well as the family he left behind, that he obviously cared very little about.

He is no Hero. He is no Martyr. He's just another nut job who's insanity hurt innocent people who had never done anything to him. Lets pray no other lunatics choose to copy him.

Folks, I believe you all are getting a little bit too caught up in arguments of whether or not this was a terrorist attack. Seriously, does it matter how it's being labeled? Fact is that this disturbing incident occurred and it doesn't minimize or magnify the incident based upon how it is defined.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Err when did i say he was bloodthirsty??

When did i say the building fully packed??

I never said these thing's but there was civilians inside of that building, you don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.

And like i have said before it sounds like he just snapped and wanted to cause some mindless damage!

And this building was a perfect place for him to strike giving his situation.

reply to post by grimreaper797


They are reporting that he chose this particular office because it is the end of line office. If you have dealings in this office your in deep schnikey even possibly jail time. Apparently he has had several appointments in that office. Hence the target selection. I'm just worried this may start to turn big brother more towards looking at others who voice thier opposition to the gov't. Look for knee-jerk legislation out of this one.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by djvexd]

Furthermore, just to clarify, I am not justifying his actions. I'm merely stating the fact that far too many in this thread are acting like he killed countless innocent people when he rammed that plane into the building.

As far as I know, nobody but the guy flying the plane has died. That is either insanely lucky for the innocent people, are the building had few workers in it for some reason and the guy knew.

People seem to be making this guy out into a vicious cold blooded killer. If that was the case, he would have done it way before now.

Lets approach the mans actions for what they were. An act of violence against the IRS, not the people who work in one of its buildings.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
From the pilots supposed online "suicide note."

"I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different," the online message says. "I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well."

Very interesting words. It seems rather odd to me that a suicidal man would take the time to quote Einstein and Shakespeare?

They do it all the time, where have you been?

This is disturbing. I am taking a break from this until people come back to their senses. Defending this man is ridiculous. He's a terrorist, not a freedom fighter.

I can sympathize with the guys frustration with the way our government is f**king it's citizens and running this country into the ground, but I in no way condone his actions. He had no idea how many innocent people he would kill. He totally went about making a statement to the government the wrong way.

There are thousands of people like him across the country that are truly hurting and losing everything they worked their whole lives for. What will it take to get the government headed in the right direction??????

just posted a link to a pdf of the pilot's suicide note here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

PEACE.
- Jon

Every cold blooded killer has a first time.

This was his.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Furthermore, just to clarify, I am not justifying his actions. I'm merely stating the fact that far too many in this thread are acting like he killed countless innocent people when he rammed that plane into the building.

As far as I know, nobody but the guy flying the plane has died. That is either insanely lucky for the innocent people, are the building had few workers in it for some reason and the guy knew.

People seem to be making this guy out into a vicious cold blooded killer. If that was the case, he would have done it way before now.

Lets approach the mans actions for what they were. An act of violence against the IRS, not the people who work in one of its buildings.

Private plane- Check
Wife and daughter- Check
$250,000 house-Check

WOW!!! This guy was soooo being held down by the government NOT

So he owed the IRS (that is just speculation)

What's the worst that could have happened? Take away his plane? Take away his home? OH NO!!!!!

There are lots of folks in the world that would be happy to have what this guy had....even w/o the plane and house.

This guy was just a nut. I believe the fact that he set his house ablaze with family inside tell it all.

He is no hero...he is not someone to looked up to.

Originally posted by triplescorpio
reply to post by jcjace

 

o so i should buy a plane and use it as a weapon against random civillians this guy was crazy not a freedom fighter good luck in your revolution.

i cannot beleive you would even propose that its better to kill people then encourage real change.
george washington would not look well opon your opinion the people our four fathers faught for are the same people(civilian hard working americans) that you want to see killed by domestic terrorists you support the oklahoma bomber too really odd that any one would even say this guy is correct.

Please continue to missquote everything i say and twist my words around.

Go ahead and write to the people elected and see how far that will get you. Go ahead and start your grassroot movement like the tea party. we all know how well that went.

i did not say to go get a plane and kill innocent people. it still remains colateral damage, what part of those two words can you not comprehend?

Do you think the british just handed over america because of letter from frustated people?

i'm not for killing innocent people but sometimes # happens dude, its life.

Oh and just so you know, i'm from austin TX, my job is a few miles from where this happened. i have one of my co worker who's siter works with the IRS along with 5 friends who all work for the IRS. yeah its scary. But a few of them said that it was bound to happen the way things are currently.