Plane crashes into Austin building

reply to post by jam321


Probably about the same chance of civilians being in a compound in iraq and afghanistan.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by MemoryShock

 

Its turning into some kind of memetic virus. Even CNN mentioned that numerous people on twitter, facebook, and myspace were sympathetic to the manifesto and the attack.

If this turns into some kind of memetic epidemic we will see numerous copycats and a larger mess.

[edit on 18/2/10 by MikeboydUS]

...and now you know why he did this.

Yes, this may just start a low-intensity insurgency. Corporate America has been working hard for this for decades, and with the help of their political allies, they just may finally have it. I look forward to the suicide bombers when they start showing up on wall Street.

Originally posted by thomasblackraven
"S: (n) terrorism, act of terrorism, terrorist act (the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear)"

(From wordnetweb.princeton.edu...)

By definition, this man is NOT a terrorist as his intended targets were not civilians, but specific agents (i.e. workers) of an institution (i.e. IRS) who had the perceived notion of being his external enemy. He is an attempted mass-murderer at worst and committed a failed act of treason as best. While the term terrorism is too loosely thrown around in today's society, we need to keep perspective on the roots of the act itself in order to prevent wider hysteria often caused through outside manipulation who exploit a lack of popular understanding in order to enact control, almost always resulting in a financial gain to one party or another.

Yes, by that definition he is.

1. "calculated use of violence" Yep. With a plane. Had the note ready. Burned his house down before the event.

2. against civilians
Yep. Who do you think ran the IRS in that building?

3. "in order to attain goals that are political"
IRS=Government=Political.

reply to post by gwydionblack


This is what we all have been talking about..

This guy well echoes everything we all have been thinking, feeling, saying here on ATS..

The game has started... When it ends lets hope good comes out of it.

And I echo the statement made here..

"One mans terrorist is another mans patriot."

I do believe our founding fathers were in this same boat...

[edit on 2/18/2010 by ThichHeaded]

I said it before and i'll say it again.

I, praise this man. His act was one of sentiment for revolt by the populace against the government for screwing us over and over again. The civilians were simply colateral damage to his revolt.

Suck it up. all of you want change against TPTB but you think you'll be able to accomplish that with zero colateral damage???? you must be nuts

reply to post by gwydionblack


No...this guy is not a patriot...he is a moron.

I questioned your other post about "why is it so wrong for me to want to fight"....and this is the reason why.

This in fact will "wake people up"...it will wake people up to the fact that morons do stupid things and think they are patriots. He burnt down his 232,000 dollar home...I bet his wife and kids think that is very patriotic of him. And poor him...living in a 232,000 dollar home...it sounds like he had it really rough.


It's funny...because when I read his letter it sounds so much like the crap you are talking about in your posts. He and you are mad that you aren't rich and you have to pay taxes. I really don't feel sorry for him...I feel sorry for his family and the family of those that he may have hurt in this stupid stunt. Because that is what it was...a stunt.

You obviously think this is a good thing...look around you...you are outnumbered...most people think this is a very bad thing.

I'm hoping you can see that what he did is stupid and doesn't do anything...and maybe you will learn from that. Your writings are so similar to him...I wouldn't be surprised if you are visited soon for a little chat by some government officials.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by thomasblackraven

Are you saying that there was zero possibility of civilians being inside the building?

just curious

Not at all. To me, they're all civilians. But what were they to him? That's the motivating question.

All of the responses on ATS praising, or at least relating, to this guy's frustration to the point where they "understand" his choice of targets further support the transition of "civilian" to a part of the "system" being attacked. If he saw his own act as being against a "system", then the individuals would not have been seen as civilians, but as enemy combatants. It would have been an act of war in his mind.

If he saw his act as a way to bring attention to his "cause", then the terrorist label may begin to apply. However, without an organized goal set, it's still difficult to apply. A motivation to change can apply, but is still lacking without a group to further the cause, regardless of whether a group forms after the fact around his "deeds".

Was the Unibomber a terrorist? Or was he a psychopathic mass murderer?

[edit on 2/18/2010 by thomasblackraven]

[edit on 2/18/2010 by thomasblackraven]

reply to post by jcjace


No we are not nuts we just know that murder is wrong.

Not all of us aspire to be killers ya know!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Its turning into some kind of memetic virus. Even CNN mentioned that numerous people on twitter, facebook, and myspace were sympathetic to the manifesto and the attack.

If this turns into some kind of memetic epidemic we will see numerous copycats and a larger mess.

That's what I am afraid of. His expression was clear and he isn't far off base. But his decision to harm innocent people is a tragic event and as well, the consequences for people discussing the subject matter won't be good.

He may have just helped to screw more people then he realized...:shk:

Edit for Grammar.

[edit on Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:03:48 -0600 by MemoryShock]

reply to post by Rising Against


and if tomorrow everyone goes on the streets and revolts against the government because of him, 2 days from now you'll be jumping on the band wagon. How do you think all the revolution in history happened? you think that no one ever died?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

No...this guy is not a patriot...he is a moron.

I agree with you.

IMO, if this guy was so unhappy about our government, he could have easily moved to another country.

Sending a plane into the building is merely going to create more laws that will further erode the types of freedoms we have today.

Yes, the game has begun. But the government will be dictating the terms.

Originally posted by thomasblackraven
"S: (n) terrorism, act of terrorism, terrorist act (the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear)"

(From wordnetweb.princeton.edu...)

By definition, this man is NOT a terrorist as his intended targets were not civilians, but specific agents (i.e. workers) of an institution (i.e. IRS) who had the perceived notion of being his external enemy. He is an attempted mass-murderer at worst and committed a failed act of treason as best. While the term terrorism is too loosely thrown around in today's society, we need to keep perspective on the roots of the act itself in order to prevent wider hysteria often caused through outside manipulation who exploit a lack of popular understanding in order to enact control, almost always resulting in a financial gain to one party or another.

Since when are government employees not civilians?

They are trying to feed their families like everyone else.

If he was angry at the IRS...he took out his anger on the wrong people...he attacked the workers and not the IRS.

The thing I find tragic is that he at onetime approached the IRS topic proactively and intellectually by participating in a research group who even went so far as to hire tax lawyers to help translate and understand tax code ( according to his " manifesto " ). It appears he made a sincere and lucid effort to understand the laws and act accordingly, displaying much more effort than most. And then ended this way. Not encouraging, IMO.

Originally posted by s4dreamlnd93
reply to post by freetree64

 

Look at all that black smoke, that couldn’t come from airplane fuel could it?

The black smoke comes from the incomplete burning of he avgas. The optimal stoichiometric air fuel ratio is about 14.7 to one by mass. For complete burning the 300 pounds of fuel would need 4410 pounds of air. At standard pressure and temperature, that would take 1670 cubic meters of available air, since at sea level and at 15 degrees C, air weighs about 1.2 kg. per cubic meter. If you're old enough to have driven a car with a manual choke, you probably noticed that with the choke pulled out, reducing the air through the carburater, black smoke came out the exhaust. Same reason - rich mixture.

Hmm i don't ever remember saying i dont think any has ever died during a revolution.

But this guy is clearly a freaking moron, setting fire to his house (whether his family was inside or not) is truly dreadful, either way he screwed over his family now hasn't he.

That kind of behavious i 100% refuse to agree with!!

Just as much as i refuse to agree with his attempted murder of innocent people!

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Rising Against]

I was at the University of Missouri: St. Louis this morning walking between classes at about 12:15pm CST. The campus is very close to Lambert Int'l Airport.

While I was outside, I noticed a fighter jet flying in a tight loop over the vicinity of the airport. I watched it for awhile; it flew out of my sight briefly (although I could hear it), then it circled back again and I saw a jet of some kind (passenger plane size) coming in for a landing along the normal flight paths, as I see them every day, except the fighter escorted it all the way to the ground. The fighter did not land, it continued past the runway (I could only hear it at this point), but then it circled around again and escorted another plane down. I personally witnessed at least 2 planes landed in this way.

The first thing I thought was, "oh man, something's up." Then I heard about this story on the way home.

Your thoughts on this?

Originally posted by ProUSA
I can't believe some of you people are praising this guy...

You do realize that he tried to kill civilians, right?

Though this guy may have had some valid opinions and arguments, he was still obviously crazy.

I don't get it either.

He attempted to kill AMERICAN citizens. If he was from a different country he would be a terrorists.

He is no better than a terrorist.

Tried to look at his website and this was what I got!

"This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI. To see an archived version of the original letter, please go here: www.thesmokinggun.com... Please visit our forum if you wish to discuss anything related to this incident: Texas crash pilot left suicide note on Web site - embeddedart.com.

Regards,
T35 Hosting - www.T35.com"

WOW, that was friggin fast. Don't try to go there now if you are worried about being logged by the FBI

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

No...this guy is not a patriot...he is a moron.

I questioned your other post about "why is it so wrong for me to want to fight"....and this is the reason why.

This in fact will "wake people up"...it will wake people up to the fact that morons do stupid things and think they are patriots. He burnt down his 232,000 dollar home...I bet his wife and kids think that is very patriotic of him. And poor him...living in a 232,000 dollar home...it sounds like he had it really rough.


It's funny...because when I read his letter it sounds so much like the crap you are talking about in your posts. He and you are mad that you aren't rich and you have to pay taxes. I really don't feel sorry for him...I feel sorry for his family and the family of those that he may have hurt in this stupid stunt. Because that is what it was...a stunt.

You obviously think this is a good thing...look around you...you are outnumbered...most people think this is a very bad thing.

I'm hoping you can see that what he did is stupid and doesn't do anything...and maybe you will learn from that. Your writings are so similar to him...I wouldn't be surprised if you are visited soon for a little chat by some government officials.

People on the left and the right are fed up with the way the rich and well-connected have been ravaging this entire society for their own benefit. In decades past, their fathers had restraint, and it worked for them - even if a few people got pissed. This generation of rich kids lost all perspective and got reckless with the thievery, and people are simply realizing that there is not a lot to lose anymore by killing it all off.

You can thank GW's 2001 9/11 boondoggle and his 2008 TARP raid on the Treasury for all of this. Maybe no one was ever going to be treated fairly anyway, but the clumsiness of these bookend attacks on our nation's reserves made the whole scam too obvious for the average person to ignore. I guess we'll just have to see where it goes from here. All I know is that more people agree with the suicide pilot than disagree with him - regardless of whether they approve of his methods or not.

Originally posted by bonebo64
The thing I find tragic is that he at onetime approached the IRS topic proactively and intellectually by participating in a research group who even went so far as to hire tax lawyers to help translate and understand tax code ( according to his " manifesto " ). It appears he made a sincere and lucid effort to understand the laws and act accordingly, displaying much more effort than most. And then ended this way. Not encouraging, IMO.

I think you need to read his manifesto again.

He didn't spend all that time revewing the tax code in an attempt to understand it. He spent all that time in an attempt to exploit it. And then when he was caught...he cried about it.


There is a big difference between the two. He tried to cheat the system and got burned.