Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by Shirakawa


I cross referenced the USGS already for that. the only one large enough globally that *might* account for that is the Haiti 5.9 at 11:03 UTC (corresponding with the 4:11 local time I referenced) and seven minutes for a pick-up is WAY stretching it-the others don't correspond to any times of other quakes. Pretty sure they are harmonic, as they carry the signature and I eliminated other variables.

reply to post by Shirakawa
Ah .. I am, looking for someone nearby Yellowstone to TXT me when the rim were to begin it's unzipping. And yes of course it is not near that stage now,. I am just looking ahead..

I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, I just wanted to be absolutely sure before posting.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Buidhe]

reply to post by Buidhe


I uploaded a new video of "seismic sounds" of the third day of earthquake swarm activity from YMC and YPM seismic stations in Yellowstone park, which are very close to YMR (unfortunately not available for real-time data streaming). It includes a waveform view (above, virtually same as webicorders) and a spectrum view (below). Please tell me where harmonic tremors are.


(I've just uploaded it so video/audio quality will improve as time passes, as Youtube states)

[edit on 2010-1-20 by Shirakawa]

Originally posted by Buidhe
reply to post by Shirakawa

 

I cross referenced the USGS already for that. the only one large enough globally that *might* account for that is the Haiti 5.9 at 11:03 UTC (corresponding with the 4:11 local time I referenced) and seven minutes for a pick-up is WAY stretching it-the others don't correspond to any times of other quakes. Pretty sure they are harmonic, as they carry the signature and I eliminated other variables.

Well, if you think those are harmonic tremors, you are going to have several things refuting that theory:

1) The signature- this is a harmonic tremor signature:
upload.wikimedia.org...

To me, that does not match anything YMR is showing.

2) Lack of corroboration in GEE. I have been monitoring GEE now since the start of this last swarm, and I am quite familiar with the look of a harmonic tremor in GEE from watching the Redoubt volcano. No such signature has been present at Yellowstone, either in this current swarm on the western caldera, or in the less talked about activity up at YPK- in the northeastern area of the park. Because we are getting quakes up there too.

3) Lack of any alert change status at the YVO. If there were indeed harmonic tremors occurring, you could pretty much bet that some mention of this would be made immediately at the YVO. All concerned know that these are some of the last signs of an impending eruption.

In addition, the YVO has specifically stated these swarm quakes appear to be tectonic, as in plate related, not magmatic. A harmonic tremor occurs when magma finds a new opening and then fills the cavity, vibrating the walls of that cavity to cause this type of tremor.

4) Here's a real harmonic tremor, and I don't believe we have any reports of these:



And you might take a peek at who posted that video on youtube.

Yep.

[edit on Wed Jan 20th 2010 by TrueAmerican]

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Look at the time parameter in your link. A 2 1/2 "10 seconds" is going to look VERY different than a 1 centimeter "minute"
Think: Accordion.
Also look at my second link from Montana tech (they have a larger time parameter spread), and you will note seismographic signatures that very closely resemble the harmonic example in your link.
I don't think anyone would speak of harmonic signatures until they stopped being short duration and started becoming longer. Why cause panic?


[edit on 20-1-2010 by Buidhe]

reply to post by Shirakawa


I saw this same video yesterday elsewhere. I am speaking of today's activity.
Apples and oranges.

***noticed that you made three at your youtube channel and this was indeed today's-I'll eat that crow, but also noted that this info is taken from YPK and YMC, both of which are set at very high microvolts, making them much less sensitive, and aren't at the area I noted them at.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Buidhe]

reply to post by Buidhe


That *is* today's activity, it's a similar video, but not the same.

Also have a look in the previous page at the waveform/spectrum view video of harmonic tremors, volcanic earthquakes @ Redoubt volcano occurred in 2009 made at the same playing speed as other recent Yellowstone videos I made.

Hm, probably better if I repost it here:



Please note that it's a different video (read the title), although it might seem the same.

[edit on 2010-1-20 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by Buidhe


I really hope you're wrong.

2.7 Just now. Details below:

Magnitude 2.7
Date-Time

* Thursday, January 21, 2010 at 01:19:47 UTC
* Wednesday, January 20, 2010 at 06:19:47 PM at epicenter

Location 44.569°N, 110.976°W
Depth 9.9 km (6.2 miles)
Region YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, WYOMING
Distances

* 15 km (9 miles) SE (135°) from West Yellowstone, MT
* 30 km (18 miles) ENE (75°) from Island Park, ID
* 56 km (35 miles) SSW (202°) from Gardiner, MT
* 431 km (268 miles) N (10°) from Salt Lake City, UT

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 0.3 km (0.2 miles); depth +/- 1.1 km (0.7 miles)
Parameters NST= 26, Nph= 26, Dmin=11 km, Rmss=0.1 sec, Gp= 86°,
M-type=local magnitude (ML), Version=2
Source

* University of Utah Seismograph Stations

Event ID uu00000954

Original Source

Originally posted by Buidhe
***noticed that you made three at your youtube channel and this was indeed today's-I'll eat that crow, but also noted that this info is taken from YPK and YMC, both of which are set at very high microvolts, making them much less sensitive, and aren't at the area I noted them at.

The microvolts value you see there affects only the vertical scale of the webicorder view.

For my videos I take the raw waveform data and maximize the amplitude until the maximum possible reading (all seismic stations in Yellowstone except for some newer digital ones and LKWY are of the same type and output data in the same scale) almost reaches audio saturation. There can be small calibration differences between these stations, but they don't affect the data as a whole. If something shows up on only one station, it's most probably a very local surface event.

[edit on 2010-1-20 by Shirakawa]

I would like to see what the microvolts of the Redoubt recording was vs. the YPK/YMC recording you did also. If they aren't the same, you have really small apples vs REALLY big oranges. And don't mistake my meaning either, I am not saying the harmonic signatures are the type that immediately precede an eruption or that they are indicative of one. Harmonic tremors can be just movement without eruption ESPECIALLY these short bursts and being that they are so weak in signature. Strong, long period Harmonics are the worrisome ones.

reply to post by Shirakawa


Surface events from about Dillon, MT to close to Old Faithful? that's close to 100 miles apart. Doubtful... I'm pretty sure it's just that YPK which is on the other end of YS isn't getting the movement, whereas the western portion is.

My prediction- I predicted- I predict... I predicted we would have some sightings of harmonic tremors. That's exactly why I asked Shirakawa to explain it to me. I was hoping this would clear it up for everyone.

I suggest that anyone joining, before you make an observation or ask a question, you go back and read Shirakawa's postings. He'll probably has already posted some great graphics and information. Of course you want an alternative view, I've got lots.

There is one thing I'm absolutely sure of, that is that if there is harmonic tremor. Shirakawa will be one of the first to notice it, and he/she will post their findings out here almost immediately. The man/woman knows their stuff and is an avid poster. Go a ways back and read and then you'll have a better sense of what's happening at Yellowstone and this giant thread. I'm absolutely sure that somewhere is this monster there is every bit of Yellowstone information collected, and even more. Until I read Shirakawa say there some sort of harmonic tremor, or notice something obvious myself, I'm not going to worry. Right now I'm just wondering if we'll reach the 900 that occured during last year's swarm.

Originally posted by Buidhe
reply to post by Shirakawa

 

Surface events from about Dillon, MT to close to Old Faithful? that's close to 100 miles apart. Doubtful... I'm pretty sure it's just that YPK which is on the other end of YS isn't getting the movement, whereas the western portion is.

just curious but are you an armchair EQ buff or do you have some background in all of this? No need to get specific but im curious.

Originally posted by Buidhe
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Look at the time parameter in your link. A 2 1/2 "10 seconds" is going to look VERY different than a 1 centimeter "minute"
Think: Accordion.

Yes, I realize that. In fact, in GEE real harmonic tremors look much more saturated than that, as they come across in near real time. And they last much longer, and are more intense in magnitude. They will also have closely spaced ball looking blimps among them.

But one thing I am sure of, and that is if I had seen any harmonic tremors in GEE I would recognize them immediately, and there have been none, I promise. I am routinely monitoring 13 stations live in GEE, with emphasis on the western caldera near Madison River, and then some up near YPK as well.

Harmonic tremors can be easy to confuse with truck or train signatures though, and some other man made events, if you were to just look at one isolated. But see, therein is the problem- harmonic tremors tend to come in packs, rather than isolated, solo shot events. And isolated events is exactly what you are looking at on the YMR webicorder.

Also look at my second link from Montana tech (they have a larger time parameter spread), and you will note seismographic signatures that very closely resemble the harmonic example in your link.
I don't think anyone would speak of harmonic signatures until they stopped being short duration and started becoming longer. Why cause panic?

The only panic being caused is by people suspecting harmonic tremors when they are not actually harmonic tremors. But if you really feel convinced, then write to the YVO or USGS, and ask them whether they have detected any in this recent swarm. And if so, ask when and where, then see if those match up with the ones you suspect. Then you can come back and nail us to the wall.

Harmonic tremors at Yellowstone and I'd be starting a new thread called "Yer all toast! Get out fast!"

reply to post by whoshotJR


You caught me alas, I am just an avid autodidact with an interest in geology. My area of expertise is in social anthropology.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


You may very well be correct, however I would ask you to explain how 2 seismographs nearly 100 miles apart recorded what appears to be a weak short period harmonic signature at exactly the same time? Surely that can't be a truck? Right?
What other phenomenon can explain it?

reply to post by Buidhe


Well, when you've been monitoring a while, some things you may notice are that when a tectonic type quake hits in one place, its decay is shorter near the epicenter. As you view the quake further away from the epicenter, the decay becomes more blurred, and can appear longer, thinner, and have more of the appearance closer to a harmonic tremor. This may be what you are seeing to a small degree. But a real harmonic tremor is unmistakable when you see it, and again, chances are you will see many many in a row, as was the case with Redoudt.

But hold on, I'm not done. I did understand your question and know exactly what you mean. You saw pretty much the exact same signature at two different stations 100 miles apart, that both appeared to be weak harmonics. Well, not all quakes are created equal. And here, since we are talking tectonic/fault type quakes according to the YVO, why couldn't it have simply been a smaller, longer fault slippage for those two signatures you saw? Nothing they have suggested indicates this has anything to do with magma or hydrothermal, so therefore that's probably exactly what it was, imho. Hope I am helping, but seriously, if you have any doubts, write to them and they will usually respond.

TA

Originally posted by Buidhe
reply to post by whoshotJR

 

You caught me

alas, I am just an avid autodidact with an interest in geology. My area of expertise is in social anthropology.

Cool, I just wanted to know because if you were like part of the vulcanologist team at YS I would probably start monitoring it even more lol.