Whats going on at yellowstone?

Back in January, geologist Jim Berkland appeared on the Coast to Coast Radio show...Host George Noory stated that frequent C to C guest Richard Hoagland had told him that thru his sources he had learned that the USGS was censuring data from YNP .....Berkland replied that he hoped that wasn't true...

Originally posted by WorkinStiff
Back in January, geologist Jim Berkland appeared on the Coast to Coast Radio show...Host George Noory stated that frequent C to C guest Richard Hoagland had told him that thru his sources he had learned that the USGS was censuring data from YNP .....Berkland replied that he hoped that wasn't true...

I personally don't think they are censoring anything. The kind of seismic activity that leads to an eruption would be detectable, not only by all the seismograms, but also by all the visitors to YS. Just like we've seen in the eruption of mt. Redoubt in alaska, the amount of seismic activity is just huge.

Also most of the smaller earthquakes we've seen during the last few days just look very minor to be put on the recent earthquake map.

reply to post by Robin Marks


Date Time Lat Lon Depth Mag Magt Nst Gap Clo RMS SRC Event ID
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2009/04/15 06:54:43.31 44.7148 -111.1410 7.13 0.41 Mc 13 121 6 0.12 WY
2009/04/15 07:03:04.40 44.7178 -111.1313 7.06 0.16 Mc 10 118 6 0.20 WY
2009/04/15 07:22:12.97 44.7148 -111.1390 6.20 0.86 Mc 16 79 6 0.11 WY
2009/04/15 09:03:18.46 44.7162 -111.1385 6.90 0.98 Mc 15 77 6 0.13 WY
2009/04/15 09:17:59.52 44.7195 -111.1440 6.91 0.29 Mc 14 75 5 0.13 WY
2009/04/15 09:42:36.02 44.7172 -111.1435 6.89 0.75 Mc 13 77 6 0.14 WY
2009/04/15 17:34:51.99 44.7193 -111.1357 6.98 1.07 Mc 13 91 6 0.14 WY
2009/04/15 18:57:19.69 44.7202 -111.1407 7.98 0.66 Mc 13 92 6 0.14 WY
2009/04/15 20:01:20.81 44.7235 -111.1442 8.62 0.47 Mc 13 90 5 0.14 WY
2009/04/15 23:33:06.21 44.7220 -111.1450 7.49 0.84 Mc 13 73 5 0.14 WY
2009/04/16 09:11:28.60 44.7125 -111.1533 10.84 0.06 Mc 10 154 5 0.10 WY
2009/04/16 09:16:18.37 44.7143 -111.1565 11.43 0.16 Mc 9 152 5 0.11 WY
2009/04/16 09:16:28.75 44.7100 -111.1445 8.41 0.16 Mc 11 157 6 0.11 WY
2009/04/16 12:15:42.81 44.7102 -111.1452 8.93 0.25 Mc 11 157 6 0.13 WY
2009/04/16 12:29:02.67 44.7153 -111.1522 10.75 0.40 Mc 9 151 5 0.10 WY
2009/04/16 12:37:00.48 44.7138 -111.1537 11.03 0.02 Mc 9 152 5 0.11 WY
2009/04/16 12:51:58.25 44.7307 -111.1697 14.82 0.03 Mc 8 85 3 0.12 WY
2009/04/16 12:52:38.39 44.7315 -111.1712 14.15 0.06 Mc 8 85 3 0.12 WY
2009/04/16 13:12:23.23 44.7147 -111.1560 11.05 0.08 Mc 10 151 5 0.11 WY
2009/04/16 13:45:52.35 44.7118 -111.1552 10.89 0.24 Mc 10 155 5 0.12 WY
2009/04/16 13:57:25.82 44.7182 -111.1732 15.70 0.42 Mc 7 147 4 0.11 WY
2009/04/16 13:58:00.20 44.7188 -111.1433 9.16 0.12 Mc 9 146 8 0.06 WY
2009/04/16 14:13:34.06 44.7232 -111.1437 6.44 0.92 Mc 14 74 5 0.15 WY
2009/04/16 16:16:07.78 44.7245 -111.1430 6.36 0.65 Mc 13 74 5 0.16 WY
2009/04/16 18:16:33.36 44.7238 -111.1480 7.20 0.74 Mc 13 74 5 0.17 WY
2009/04/17 01:02:21.90 44.7213 -111.1338 6.55 1.19 Mc 15 74 6 0.13 WY
2009/04/17 06:37:43.43 44.7103 -111.1288 4.02 0.15 Mc 11 81 7 0.14 WY
2009/04/17 07:02:33.69 44.7577 -111.1308 9.11 0.38 Mc 13 94 5 0.12 WY
2009/04/17 07:10:12.18 44.7520 -111.1317 8.32 1.04 Mc 12 91 5 0.16 WY
2009/04/17 08:32:53.56 44.7540 -111.1323 8.87 0.92 Mc 14 93 5 0.12 WY
2009/04/17 08:57:04.99 44.7588 -111.1382 12.11 0.00 Mc 10 132 5 0.08 WY
2009/04/17 09:36:19.57 44.7625 -111.1333 9.61 1.56 Mc 19 72 4 0.12 WY
2009/04/17 09:39:03.64 44.7513 -111.1270 7.99 0.84 Mc 11 108 5 0.16 WY
2009/04/17 10:22:20.08 44.7637 -111.1393 12.83 0.31 Mc 8 143 4 0.07 WY
2009/04/17 10:30:49.20 44.7585 -111.1325 11.81 0.41 Mc 10 125 5 0.08 WY

I suppose it depends what you define as a 'number' of small earthquakes. You can't really count before the 15th as there was only 1 on the 14th and 2 on the 13th.

This is based on delta=44.735,-111.13,0,5 in the ANSS catalog. The latitude and longitude are a mid point between what is currently seen in Google earth USGS quakes and at 5 km radius pretty much encompases those and almost out to West Yellowstone.

Does not qualify as a swarm in my humble opinion.

Edit: As a comparison there were in excess of 100 per day in the Dec/Jan swarm.

[edit on 20/4/2009 by PuterMan]

uh oh...


but it might just be rumbling, maybe it wont erupt for years yet. but rumblings do precede volcanic eruptions. there would probably be a big lot of rumblings, pretty obvious (hopefully) before it blew?

reply to post by PuterMan


Don't be humble. Life is too short and glorious. I was merely playing around with the definition I got from that news article I provided. I wasn't trying to compare directly to the Yellowstone Lake swarm. It may be a precursor to another large quake like '59. And when I think of swarms I can't shake the process that's underway concerning the swarms under Vancouver. I found a good article about the Cascadian Fault off Oregon. It's very disturbing.

www.oregonlive.com...

And the activity which we are discussing seems to have putered out and has all but stopped. I really have nothing more to say other than SUSAN BOYLE ROCKS!!!! She's tilted the world's axis. Did you feel the earth move?

addendum: I bet at the moment I finished writing my opinion that the activity has ceased, that's the moment a 1.5+ seems to have been registered around Hebgen Lake. And regarding the list, I suppose your list is incomplete because they still haven't posted events which occured on the 18th, 19, or today.







[edit on 20-4-2009 by Robin Marks]

Wait a minute! Wait a minute, hold on! The USGS is withholding information! They're not omitting it, they're delaying it. All seismic activity which happens within the USA is posted on the ANSS maps. Except around Yellowstone! The information and seismic stations are beening monitored by university students. During the week the Recent Map is udated but not on weekends. Why? Because the students must get authorization to pass on the information. And this policy is unique to Yellowstone! For some reason it has to be channelled through the executive branch- executives who are off work on weekends. This must be directly related to Chris Sanders posting his warning on You Tube. Because the Yellowstone Lake swarms happened during the holidays, the university students posted the information immediately. Due to the speed of action on the net and the instantaneous spreading of information, this attracted the attention of this site, blogs, and as well as Chris Sanders. He was ahead of any official media annoucement, and for the causal observer it seemed like it was from the USGS. This cause quite a controversy within the USGS and the general public. To avoid this in the future, all quake analysis for Yellowstone, has to be passed up the chain of command for authorization. I don't have any official proof of this. But it seems to be the only logical answer. And the weekend delay is my circumstantial evidence. The USGS is not censoring information, but they are controlling it's flow. They can't stop the public observor from accessing the data, but they can slow down the release and respond to media attention. No one will be able to post an earthquake list before the official USGS stamp of approval. The media is, for the most part, off work on the weekends as well. Is this a conspiracy? Yes, but not a shadow conspiracy, it's called government policy and prerogative. Is information being withheld indefinately? No. But the message is being controlled that's for sure. The data has been politicized. Would they stop the webicorders if there were signs of harmonic tremor? Would they post fradulent webicorder readings to prevent a panic? That's something you got to ask yourself. Do I think they would or could do that? I don't fully believe anything until I have some evidence. Slowing the flow of information is not censoring. But is it deception? One thing is certain, it sure as hell can be called manipulation.
I know we've brought up this in the past, but there was a possibility the delay was due to a back-log of data. But this would not explain the continued delay. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. But without an answer this bugs me. I need an answer for everything. Even on weekdays the information is slow to be released. It has to be passed through somone's office. The quake releases in Alaska around Redoubt are not under this policy directive. Only Yellowstone!

(I'm not an American Citizen. I can't really phone up the USGS or my Representatives to demand an answer. And I'm not particulary good in one on one situations.)

reply to post by Shirakawa


Dear Shirakawa, I cannot contain myself. Firstly, thank you for providing the videos. I finally found some time to watch, but I've had to stop after starting the second one to write because I am livid. The videos are tilted, "Yes, Yellowstone is a Volcano. An Unscripted Interview. Jan 09", with Jake Lowenstern. This is a giant (profane expletive) lie. There is nothing UNSCRIPTED about it. From the USGS LOGO all the way to the graphics and the fact that it was SCRIPTED to be read in three parts. I know how hard it is to do a You Tube Video presentation. Jake Lowenstern is adept at talking to film crews, having appeared in many documentaries and media interviews. But give me a break. This is as phony as a three dollar bill. They're lying to us. They are managing the YVO as any professional P.R. firm would, and it's disgusting. These videos are a blatant attempt to counteract the videos made by those in the general public about the swarm. It's UNSCRIPTED assertion is unnecessary and that's what should drawn your attention to it. Especially when it's glaringly obvious there's nothing casual about it. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." William Shakespeare. They are so conspicuously trying to be You Tube savy. Or are they trying to be ironic? I expect this kind of PR from the agency selling me cereal flakes, not a federal scientific agency. Who have they hired? Cause they're bad at it. The information is fine. But I'm not going to be lulled back into forgetting that Yellowstone is a giant volcano with a nifty infomercial. They were speaking directly to those of you that have just tuned into the fact that Yellowstone is a giant volcano and you were seeing videos about it on You Tube or were informed through the media. I'm seriously p.o'd. They are doling out information at their discretion. The Most recent map says maps udate every five minutes. This is not true. And when quakes appear on weekends and when they show up on Monday they are version # 2. We aren't getting version #1. If the YVO isn't hiding anything. Why are they actinglike they have got something to hide, well not exactly, but like they've got something they have to manage. They are managing the message throught the medium. "The MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE!" MARSHALL McLUHAN. A public image is being projected, protected. Me thinks me smells something that smells. What the hell? Really!? I believe this to be an insult to my intelligence and yours. Sorry, someone started this by asking the question, or making the claim they are hiding data. I'm just investigating the facts as I find them. Tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me why they lie and say it's unscripted. You watch. Why does he repeat his introduction if it's unscripted? The USGS wrote it and directed it. You can't get more scripted than that.

more stuff, (shut up robin), Yellowstone Lake's discharge was measured April 16, 700 cfs, roughly in the 90th precentile. Note, before I stopped watching, returning now, Jake Lowenstern said that Hydro-thermal eruptions can occur when they have changing lake levels. I believe that is indeed the case in the lake. (shut up robin)

And if you don't think I scripted this, I'll let you know I scripted the (profane expletive) out of it. (#%$^^&% damn YVO blowing Polly-Anna commercials up my

[edit on 21-4-2009 by Robin Marks]

Robin, for what its worth and we all know ME by now,
I am totally in agreeance with what you are saying.
I have noticed this "channeling" of information and we have talked about it
on here a bit it seems like. But of course I'm paranoid so I dont know if its true or just me always!
If the info wasn't already "censored" before the fake warning incident happened, it sure was after I would imagine!
Not only that, but this whole thing could be manipulated for the most favorable outcome for the ptb(execs).(in the worst case scenario)
It is a large enough threat to the nation, you can bet we have taken appropriate precautions in all ways already. With fema updated regularly.
At least we know the chain of command!
Indeed, it seems to be turning into a huge benefit to the park itself!
It seemed to come on to the world stage around the holidays and should be a good money maker what with all the new tourists this season!
Just look at the attention it has received through this website alone!
Indeed, thats what brought me here to stay! Cheers! Thanks ATS!
I dont mind a bit if it increases the tourists, their moneys green!
Maybe they can use the money and GET THOSE HELIS FIXED!
Hee hee! Um, Thanks for your info and linkies!
Just my 2
I love it! The snobs in the audience felt pretty proud at first.
People were saying she made them cry on the video comments!
Its hard to get up in front of EVERYONE like that and sing!
Thats what gets me about it. People assume wrong at first.
I dont know why we are talking about her!
What did you say? She tilted the worlds axis!
Hopefully WE are not assuming wrong here, but what else would
explain the discrepancy with the data other than what you say?
Robin, why dont you start a thread on her!!!
I dont know if there is one but if not, then there ya go!
I would post my nonsense on there and draw any flames away!
Anyway good job, I'll get off before I turn it into my personal blog!
Dont get me started Peace to this planet!


[edit on 20-4-2009 by dodadoom]

I know I've said too much. But that's me. I wish I could just let it go. And I tried by investigating further and started to take the counter argument that I am wrong about the unscripted title to prove myself wrong. (ooh, ooh, i know why they called it unscripted, it was unscheduled. A reaction.) I found some interesting stuff on the USGS You Tube Website. Experimental stuff. They started the channel November 9 '07 and they have 79 videos. It would seem like a pet project of someone in the USGS, or an experiment in delivering press releases. There is some odd ball videos, but most of it contains interviews about a prepardness program called the big Shake Out. And simple sit down interviews. None of the saying informing us that they were unscripted, but with out a doubt, none of those being interviewed had scripts. There is one video called Preparedness Now. Lame title. And it is decribed as a video by an upcoming director. They are obivously experimenting and contracting out to filmakers. Jake Lowenstern's video seems to have been hastely conducted, and then sent to someone to be produced. Other than the slick Prepardeness Now video, I believe it's one of the few with music and visual aids and title cuts. One of the most curious things is that three weeks agao they disabled their comments. So if you want to comment and tell them to keep up the good work, you can't. And you can't make any arguments about Jake Lowenstern's opinion. And he states near the end, that there is indeed many unknowns and there is room for debate. But no oppurtunity exists on those videos to do so. What's wrong with public discussion about the YVO's data and conclusions? I must agree with him about the math at the end though. There is no clear way to have a timeline of eruptions based on previous eruptions. (Shut up already.)
Here's the link to the USGS website.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Robin Marks


Robin ,could y ou provide a link to the USGS youtube website , that in it self would be helpfull.

thanks .

reply to post by dodadoom


Dear Dodadoom,

I know I should not talk about the Scottish Queen out here. But I love her. I'd go to war hearing an anthem sung by her majesty. I'd start a thread or blog but there's already thousands. But here's my take on it...

www.youtube.com...

Yellowstone. Yellowstone. Yellowstone. Did you notice that in the You Tube video with Jake Lowentstern, he points to the graphics with the logos for the USGS, the YVO, and YNP? How did he know to point to their location if it wasn't planned out ahead out time? And trust me I'm trying to limit myself out here. I could go into great detail about how I disagree with Mr. Lowenstern's logic and reassurances.

Dear Alysha.angel, my Norwegian Princess, here's the USGS You Tube Site

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Robin Marks


thanks Robin for the link, since im half blind half the time i didnt see it intil after i made my post .

well all we can do is wait and see what if any thing hu ge happens at YS .......

Interesting video and I understand what you are saying in all cases!
If you didnt feel something from her performance your brain dead!
Thanks for being you and not being afraid to put it on video!
Just like her you force people to do a reality check!
We need more like you!
Sorry started talking about her again and just deleted it.
....um are you guys watching the history channel tonight?
Lots of infomation on YS! How the earth was made is the name.
Looks like it was first aired at the end of march so some might have seen it. www.history.com...
Do you want to know what the summary was of when it was projected
to explode again?
Anywhere from tomorrow to ten thousand years to a
million years from now. Really? Thats all we get?
After all that and they dont have the faintest when it could blow?
We think we got this all figured out(life)and we really are just foolin'
ourselves, aren't we. Dang it why are we paying taxes anyway?
Oh geez look out I said taxes! Its the new boogey man were to be scared of!
I'll post a comment on your vid and give you 5 stars!
Thanks again for everything!


[edit on 21-4-2009 by dodadoom]

scienceblogs.com...

Please read this article. Read it twice and think about it. When I get time, I'm going to argue the analysis in Jake Lowenstern's Unscripted Interview.

His logic doesn't stand up to a test. Experiments are not always conducted with beakers, bacteria cultures, and particle colliders. Some experiments are conducted in the mind. Reasoned arguments are the genesis of all innovations and discoveries. Mr. Lowenstern's arguments fail using the same logic he used to discount the 600 000 year interval claim. I'd write my critical analysis on his video, but they've recently disable comments on the USGS You Tube Website. I think I'll email him and ask him directly to explain this contradiction.

Hey Everyone!

With all the seismic and volcanic activity going on around the world..
i thought i would inform everyone that today, april 23, there have been three earthquakes in southern california at a reasonable size.

The first one was at 5:00 pm. Second one at about 8:30, with one following right after.

earthquake.usgs.gov...

They are all centered in Yorba Linda,CA.

I felt the first one when i got to the gym. I was in my car, ready to step out, and i felt my car moving around. I looked around to see if someone was possible leaning on my car, but it was actually shaking.

The second and third one i was watching Aladdin (Don't judge me) and i see the chandelier shaking above.

Thought i would add that i live about 10 miles away from Yorba Linda. Its about a 10-15 min drive.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by lovelyn]

Discharge readings for Yellowstone lake are finally back!
They're accessible here (last 7 days).

In in the court of law it is hard to prove intent. It is open to interpretation, therefore it is not conclusive. I may raise doubt about the USGS and Jake Lowentstern's marketing techniques and motives. But I cannot prove anything. I can just assert that their representation is not truly accurate, and claim that they are trying to manage the message and lull us back into complacement. They want us to prepare for the "Big Shake", but they don't want us to prepare and plan for the possibility of an eruption. Didn't FEMA fail because they didn't have a plan? Think of the lost tourism dollars if people wake up to the fact that Yellowstone is, "Yes, Yellowstone is (really) a volcano." So even if I make a great case and present lots of circumstantial evidence, it still doesn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

And that gets me back on track. Debating the information Jake Lowentern provided in his You Tube video. But before I do that, I realized I had better finish my homework and make sure I knew what the hell I was talking about. Although I am not ready to argue specific points yet, I have found some information that will change the way you visualize Yellowstone's magma chamber. I have done extensive research to understand what caused the volcano at Yellowstone. And my research has taught me that Yellowstone is a hotspot caused by a magma plume from the hot mantle. When I was listening to Mr. Lowenstern describe the chamber, I listened repeatedly to him discussing the tomography under the park. I ask you to refer to the video starting at 4:07 of part 3.

www.youtube.com...

This should give you a good idea about how it works and the structure of the chamber. Then when you read the links I'll post, you'll understand that a USGS sponsered study called The Iceland Hotspot Project, shows that there is no plume under Iceland. And it calls into doubt the Magma Plume Theory. In fact it's a heated debate going on now between professional geologists. I now see Yellowstone in a whole new light. I dug deeper and found that the same geologist who headed the study, Professor Foulger, has developed a hypothesis that there is no plume under Yellowstone. Using tomography and following a hypothesis based on tectonic processes, he casts more doubt on the Magma Plume theory. But since the plume model is the accepted science, not enough research has gone into determining it's validity of Professor Foulger's research with extended seismic tomography and study. Sound familar. Another great idea hidden away on a shelf because it's not the mainstream view. I just stumbled upon it as I hunted. There is a multitude of sites which show the plume and it has been entrenched in my pysche. Now I need to rethink the whole thing. I still intent to argue with Mr. Lowenstern's logic and assesment. It's just that Professor Foulger has given me a whole lot to think about first.

www.nerc.ac.uk...

www.mantleplumes.org...



[edit on 24-4-2009 by Robin Marks]

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Robin Marks]

I find that today's science is just the same as it ever was - it is very difficult to change the "official" story, as it is used for political purpose, and heavily guarded.
Yet, this is a nice research, and I truly appreciate it. Earth is one big mystery, and if you don't accept the carbon dating as a proven method (I don't), then everything is even more mysterious.

So, if I understand well, there may be horizontal rivers and lakes of magma, closer to the surface than official science predicted? I may have understood it wrongly, but it seems that the whole mechanism of eruptions has to be analyzed again, we really do not know how and why volcanoes erupt.

I believe that Earth is growing, and volcanoes are the builders of Earth. As simple as that. Volcanoes also serve as cleaners - their task is to get rid of dirty creatures like humans, and restore natural order. They are purifiers. They are also there to remind us that we are NOT THE OWNERS OF EARTH, unless we behave like responsible, selfless guardians of this great gift, the Earth.

In essence, as I see it, we have the following:

1) USGS is delaying data - we know that and have done for some time and as I pointed out it has the highest number of deletions of anywhere, despite the delayed data.

2) The videos were not unscripted. Yes I will definitely go along with that.

3) The 'scientists' don't actually know anything for certain and like all of science float along with the current "accepted" theory. (I am still trying to get my head round the fact that the Earth is not flat according to some modern theories! I really can't believe that!)

4) If you suggest anything that does not fit the current "accepted" theory you are a charlatan and/or a fool.

5) The aim of any of these quasi governmental organisations is to reduce panic. They are NOT ever going to say "It's about to blow". The best you are ever likely to get is "There is an increased chance of volcanic activity". After all, if it blows who is going to be asking questions?

6) The "ice" melted at the lake outlet. Now let's see how the data looks and extrapolate the missing data after a couple of weeks.

7) There is no magma plume, therefore it is not cooling and is NOT a crystaline slush - if we believe the results of the Iceland project - and why wouldn't we? If it is not a plume and therefore not a crystaline slush, and not cooling, then it would seem that the potential for, at the minimum, large rhyolitic flows must still be there.

8) Robin has been distracted by an anomalous earth movement, apparently centred in Scotland somewhere.

Yellowstone is rockin and rollin'

MAP 2.0 2009/04/29 01:17:12 44.591 -110.632 2.9 38 km ( 24 mi) ESE of West Yellowstone, MT
MAP 2.5 2009/04/29 01:14:35 44.614 -110.673 0.1 35 km ( 22 mi) E of West Yellowstone, MT
MAP 2.5 2009/04/29 01:13:23 44.614 -110.729 0.2 30 km ( 19 mi) E of West Yellowstone, MT
MAP 2.6 2009/04/29 01:12:58 44.541 -110.874 12.3 23 km ( 14 mi) SE of West Yellowstone, MT



[edit on 28-4-2009 by spinkyboo]