Just wondering, why do so many of you seem to hate Jesus?

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by gordonwest

 

Well dude, appreciate your honest response but to be honest it doesn't make that much sense to me.And why should it I was not raised a christian or born in a religious enviroment. I can respect your beliefs and at the moment you don't appear to be the type who would try to shove them down my childrens throats or dictate to us how we should live or lives.

Yeah! I do belive in Jesus and God. And...As God gave humans ( Free Will ), I belive that it is in everybody's right to have ( Free Will ). I am not one of those people who shove c.r.a.p. down peoples throats or put words in people's heads...What I do write on ATS is my personal experience, and try my best to Answer a Question or statement/comment. "Personal Belief" comes from ( Free Will ), so that when somebody talks about religion that person always should remember that the other personl-people are human beings...Love Thy Neighbour As ThySelf. We are all earthlings sitting on the same piece of rock in space.

reply to post by Rintendo


No worries about rambling dude your post was very refreshing and interesting.

One more dumb question, if you had the final say on the editing of the new testament, with the intent of preserving nothing but his absolute message/teachings of jesus, What would you dump ?

Yeah! I do belive in Jesus and God. And...As God gave humans ( Free Will ), I belive that it is in everybody's right to have ( Free Will ). I am not one of those people who shove c.r.a.p. down peoples throats or put words in people's heads...What I do write on ATS is my personal experience, and try my best to Answer a Question or statement/comment. "Personal Belief" comes from ( Free Will ), so that when somebody talks about religion that person always should remember that the other personl-people are human beings...Love Thy Neighbour As ThySelf. We are all earthlings sitting on the same piece of rock in space.

So may I take that, as much as you may decide to be offended or repulsed, should I decide I would like to marry a man you would in no way try to prevent me ?

I remember reading an item of scripture when I was at school. I think it was from the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus kept asking his disciples who they thought he was. Peter said he was the Son of God. Jesus said that this was revealed to Peter from God and not from man.

When people say they hate Jesus maybe its because they see him the way they want to see him and not the way God sees him. I know my own son better than you can ever know - maybe thats the way God does too. Maybe Peter got to see Jesus through the Father's eyes. What do you think?

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Circle]

Originally posted by IvanZana
reply to post by theindependentjournal

 

The man named Jesus of Nazareth was the most spiritually advanced and morally superior spirit to have incarnated on this Earth. His mission was to provide us with a living example of the level of love, goodness, and values that human beings can attain on this planet. Spiritists consider Jesus to be a model for all humankind and strive to follow Jesus' teachings. That is why many Spiritists call themselves Christians.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by IvanZana]

After 2000 years of christians not displaying the kinds of qualities you describe, don't you think his mission failed ?

reply to post by moocowman


Hey! It would be more Jerry Springer episodes...FreeWill is FreeWill.

reply to post by theindependentjournal


no no no

you just made up two categories of people to fit your theory

there are many ways to look at this ,one of them is to believe people who know there is no such thing as Jesus ,when they tell you they don't hate him or any other non existent things

the other is to accept the fact that just because someone doesn't have a religion doesn't mean they just go about doing whatever they feel like and that that means they will always feel like lying cheating committing fraud raping your daughters or sons, or generally being a public nuisance


Peoples interest in these things is in no way related to belief or not belief in a deity, in short harmful or criminal acts can be committed by anyone


Like wise many people who don't believe in a deity,are tireless in service to public welfare causes and lead happy lives and have no problems sorting out moral issues involving their obligations to life ,community ,or family

if the question cannot be answered by the people of whom it is asked then it must be some sort of internal dilemma within the questioners mind , can't help ya there

reply to post by Circle


Where are you getting the "When people say they hate Jesus " form ? No one's saying they hate Jesus that is the point. To hate jesus is a stupid as hating santa clause.

Some people "hate christianity " this is very true, It's no different to god to the jesusgod hating homosexuality.

reply to post by moocowman


If you are reading Tabor you are likely doing some research...so you understand that there are similarities in the synoptics, as well as, the fragment of the GOM...so you will have context when I state that given the GOM (last pollen and carbon dated at mid century CE, making it contemporary) I would keep Matthew and get rid of the rest. It has always had the best translation, it has been found in: aramaic, greek, and latin forms, etc.

Or is that what you were asking?

reply to post by gordonwest


So may I take that, as much as you may decide to be offended or repulsed, should I decide I would like to marry a man you would in no way try to prevent me ?

I Have never met a man, woman or child that has ever fully 100% followed their religious doctrate to the T, Hence he is not a Christian, Muslim, Catholic, ect... He is a person who has a belief in Christianity.

And yet they preach like they're God's Lobbyiest.

Most people don't need to be found, most people need to find themselves.

At one point or another Christians will eventually have to realize that the bible isn't a book of laws and morals.

I don't ever think Jesus ever did anything wrong, I think he tried to teach us to view the bible as a map and its up to the reader to choose what path we want to take. I just think most Christians and Catholics alike want for us to follow their path.

[edit on 11/20/2008 by FoxStriker]

reply to post by moocowman


Inrespect to you, I have already answered. It isn't me to judge humans. As I was given the right to walk alongside humans, God didn't give me a ladder to walk and step above humans.

The thing that confuses me about religion is I don't really see the purpose in believing in a supernatural deity.

If people are unable to see the value in being kind, merciful loving without being told to by a big ghost then where is the value in it?

Surely if person does these things because they believe it the right thing to do, that has a greater value than someone who does it because they are either afraid that God will punish them if they don't or he will give them eternal life if they do?

If you need to be told not to murder and fornicate by a big bully then that doesn't say a lot for you as a human being.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Circle

 

Where are you getting the "When people say they hate Jesus " form ? No one's saying they hate Jesus that is the point. To hate jesus is a stupid as hating santa clause.

Some people "hate christianity " this is very true, It's no different to god to the jesusgod hating homosexuality.

All I'm saying is you see Jesus the way you want to see him that's all. Jesus said that when you see him you see the Father as well. I guess that a family likeness thing. A bit like when people see my son they see his Dad in there as well.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Circle]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Circle]

reply to post by Rintendo


Rintendo:

I am going to tell you a story that I don't speak of often as it is still very painful. My oldest child, a boy named Craig, died 2 weeks short of his 8th birthday. He drowned in a pit of water. No need to describe what this pit looked like or how deep it was. Let me paint the day for you and oh, by the way, at this time in my life I was a believer but certainly not a follower of Christ.

The day was a Tuesday, September 6, 1977. Craig came home from school, put his lunch box up, changed clothes and hugged his little sister, Lynette and went out to play with two of his friends. Twenty minutes later all HELL came knocking on my door. His two friends came telling me all out of breath from running so fast to get to me that Craig had fallen into some water and couldn't get out. I of course ran following them as I knew of no such place in our neighborhood. When I got to the mound and had to crawl up on the sides to see where the water was......there was no sign of him anywhere and the boys were so afraid that they couldn't remember where he fell in. This pit was dug by a bulldozer from a construction crew who were building apartments behind our neighborhood. Anyway, I saw bubbles coming up out of the water and I knew that is where he was. I went down the edge went into the water and sunk down into the mud. As I kept trying to get to him I kept sinking deeper and deeper. At last some of my neighbors made a human chain and by one holding onto a tree the others were able to reach out to him. It was my neighbor lady across the street from me that reached him first. She lifted up one of his legs we could see he was pinned down by something. The pramedics got there and they pulled him out and laid him at my feet. I knew he had been in the water much to long to live and I could tell by how large his belly was that his lungs were full of water. Now, my daughter was only two at this time but she knew something terrible had happened to her brother.. My friend this is a charater builder I would wish upon no one. This brought me to my knees. My family went though all the grief one goes through and it boggles my mind that I would have a son that would be 39 now.

Did good come from his death. Yes, there were a lot of good events that were maybe because of what everyone went through. I consider on of the finest ones is I became a FOLLOWER and not just a believer. Because I know if not for the grace of God I would not have come thought this as a sane person.

I often thought of the FOOTPRINTS IN THE SAND poem and it was true in my case. He did carry me though the tears, the ache for my son, the pain my husband carried, and the confusion in my daughter's eyes. Yes, his grace was enough.


God Bless,
Grandma

reply to post by moocowman


I'd like to weigh in.

I love South Park. I remember watching an interview with the creators who said their main goal was to portray children as they really were, not as the angelic creatures that mythos has made them out to be. It struck within me much of what my anthropologist brother always describes.

Children between 2 and 6 are man at his most natural state. Religion, law, ethics have not yet been fully imprinted upon children. Really, truly observe children and see what they are like left to their own devices.

They grab and the biggest kid wins. They push. They shove. They also are "colorblind". They tell the truth and they lie depending on their take of the situation. They are cute as heck, but essentially they do what they need to do to have their own basic needs met. They love you, surely they do, but they will also manipulate you and not see it as a violation of the love. They'll say: "I hate you!" to each other and mean it fully that moment. They'll also swiftly make up and say "I love you".

They are man without guidance. Man is not inherently noble. Man is an animal that is hard-wired to survive as a bipedal predator.

Law, religion, ethics were all inventions of tribal society to "keep order". I am stating religion (not spirituality). When I hear people say: we don't need religion to not be bad, or to not be good, I think that is oversimplifying a situation.

Studies have shown by universities as diverse as U of C and Harvard Med that humans are not monogamous and that 75% of men will cheat in their lifetimes and half of women. Studies have shown that very close to 100% of humans will lie because it is a defense mechanism of the brain.

When there is a punishment/deterrant people...deter.

Punative religion, punative law was the first step in achieving order. People had to know whom all the children in a family belonged to or the family unit would break down. Without paper contracts a man's word had to be his bond, so trustworthiness was essential.

The Hebrew Bible has 663 commandments according to the Chasidem. They are a mix of positive and negative commandments. In other words, the "thou shalls" and the "thou shalt nots".

Where Jesus diverged was that the Gospels in their original language are "positive" commandments only. There is no talk of Hell in the original texts of the Gospels--sorry folks. They were designed to evolve to the next step of human self-reliance. Make people think outside of themselves, train them to avoid selfishness which is an inherent human trait (see Maslow).

So, while you can absolutely be a good person (as defined as having more good qualities than bad) without religion, it is still fair to say that you were instructed by your parents to be a good person and those instructions came from a Judeo Christian root in this society. In Eastern Societies it came from a Buddhist-Shinto root. What we consider "good" is in many cases anti-evolutionary for a bipedal predator 60,000 years ago.

So while we're out there bashing religion, or saying that people learned nothing from Christ, I interject to say that religion predated countries and those "laws" helped form society in ways beyond our capacity to always acknowledge.

the concept of jesus is aces in my book. its all the people who contort his ideologies to justify their own hatred. its the hypocrites who pervert the bible to fit their own hate agendas.

reply to post by MarrsAttax


I think you're on to something,I think excersize of bad or good acts is a product of how we are raised ,if you are raised by hardworking loving kind people ,you have a greater likelihood of growing up to be one. if they believe in a God then you likely feel that that God is good and cares about you


Or if you are raised by the violent and abusive well you are more likely to be that ,if they also believe in a God then you will associate that God with those values

reply to post by Grandma


Grandma,

I thank you so much for your story and I absolutely would give you a hug whether you liked it or not for sharing so much of your life with a stranger. I worked in an AIDS hospice and I have seen my share of suffering. I wondered so often: why? How is this fair? Why these little people? Why should they suffer when the brutal fat cats running their countries live life in ease behind palace walls. The only sense I could make of it is that death is a part of life, that there is a spirit and a life after this one (I could tell you stories that would put the hairs up on your arm), and that we suffer not because a God does not love us, but because this life is temporary and must have its sorrows and it's triumphs.

I know to the atheists there is no life after this one and that what I saw was...I don't know some kind of weird illusions caused by change in weather plus the mango I just ate...whatever. I'm not here to convert them to anything.

I just know that in the death of some of these beautiful people--people I don't think deserved the type of death they got...other people found redemption.

I did not say what I said to make light of your condition or your beliefs, but to say in my own way...that I agree.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Rintendo]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Rintendo]

In the Gospels it says that at Jesus' crucifixtion there were many who jeered and poured ridicule on him. Others attended out of love. A centurion said he was the Son of God. Another asked to join him in paradise while hanging on a cross as well. Same crucifixtion but people saw it differently.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Circle]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Circle]