Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists

reply to post by hypnoticka


Hello, hypnotica you called me lazy, but certainly i have not stoped to work since then ,anyway i see you have had time to put multiple replies just to began...

Well there are some points to clarify, first of all i feel some FANATISM in your materialistic point, you never take in account that something more than a material reaction could take place even when the facts maybe are pointing on the contrary, this is as unscientific as a fanatic religious, you want to prove your ideas not reality.
if you read my posts with melatonin (a true polite and clever skeptic) we still cannot determine true death from Near death, maybe there are no fisical diferences, certainly we have not detected theses diferences so at the moment we have a dead brain experiencing a complex process leaving no measurable activity (as melatonin had said maybe this activity is centered in other brain areas but this have not been measured, it's just a theory) but what i said is a fact. This moves me to think that maybe the experience is not taking place in the brain, this is as possible as any other possibility but you reject it directly without proof or studies on the respect.

I will say some interesting things to you, as you like scientific studies i will speak to you about scientific studies centered First in the reincarnation subject that gives SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN cases of reincarnation. This is still more hard than NDE and is proven beyound doubt. i can give you a link:

en.allexperts.com...

You are not lazy as I so im sure this will be enough to began a carefull study by you on this interesting subject.

On the other hand in the soviet union times (comunists are not specially religious people) some studies were done on the telekinetic area with surprising results:

www.whps.com...

Im sure you will read it fully because you are not lazy

Just to end i will say to you that at the moment 90% of the mass of univers is black matter, this means that something we cannot see, smell,touch or taste is around us and is the 90% of our reality, and we ignore 100% about what it is. Look the studies i have shown to you, remember that 90% of the mass around you is invisible, and began to realize that maybe your materialist view point..... is pointless.

Thousands of other studies have been discredit before can be completed, or have been personally menaced, discredited, unfunded,etc... thanks to people that DON'T WANT to belive in something more.

thanks

Originally posted by REIKUKI
reply to post by hypnoticka

 

Hello, hypnotica you called me lazy, but certainly i have not stoped to work since then ,anyway i see you have had time to put multiple replies just to began...

Well there are some points to clarify, first of all i feel some FANATISM in your materialistic point, you never take in account that something more than a material reaction could take place even when the facts maybe are pointing on the contrary, this is as unscientific as a fanatic religious, you want to prove your ideas not reality.
if you read my posts with melatonin (a true polite and clever skeptic) we still cannot determine true death from Near death, maybe there are no fisical diferences, certainly we have not detected theses diferences so at the moment we have a dead brain experiencing a complex process leaving no measurable activity (as melatonin had said maybe this activity is centered in other brain areas but this have not been measured, it's just a theory) but what i said is a fact. This moves me to think that maybe the experience is not taking place in the brain, this is as possible as any other possibility but you reject it directly without proof or studies on the respect.

I will say some interesting things to you, as you like scientific studies i will speak to you about scientific studies centered First in the reincarnation subject that gives SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN cases of reincarnation. This is still more hard than NDE and is proven beyound doubt. i can give you a link:

en.allexperts.com...

You are not lazy as I so im sure this will be enough to began a carefull study by you on this interesting subject.

On the other hand in the soviet union times (comunists are not specially religious people) some studies were done on the telekinetic area with surprising results:

www.whps.com...

Im sure you will read it fully because you are not lazy

Just to end i will say to you that at the moment 90% of the mass of univers is black matter, this means that something we cannot see, smell,touch or taste is around us and is the 90% of our reality, and we ignore 100% about what it is. Look the studies i have shown to you, remember that 90% of the mass around you is invisible, and began to realize that maybe your materialist view point..... is pointless.

Thousands of other studies have been discredit before can be completed, or have been personally menaced, discredited, unfunded,etc... thanks to people that DON'T WANT to belive in something more.

thanks

AHA but black matter can be measured so take a brake and read again before try to prove me wrong plus did you heard of the LHC or knows as big bang 2.0 ? that largest scientific test in june 2009 is gonna answer many fundamentalist questions in detail like the one you asked and black holes etc...

brain death doesn't mean there is no chemical reaction in the brain, during NDE(death brain) the brain scans the memory that's why people have life reviews scientists said. the brain is not fully understood by nowadays science so making assumption which doesn't belong to science is pointless. its only 3 in 10 people experience NDE during brain death. explain to me why the others experience absolutely nothing if you think we have a soul

Originally posted by Solomons
Consciousness is not some magical thing...i hate when people make it out to be,its a natural survival tool,we share it with other intelligent animals but their level of conscious differs...Again its not some magical force,it is a tool the brain uses,much like fight or flight is a tool for dangerous situations etc conscious of your surroundings and feelings of others is good for bonding in groups,hunting among other things...Study chimpanzees and you will see this happening all the time.Like i say its a natural tool for the brain to utilize and resides in the brain,its not some cosmic energy or whatever new age cliche.

The question is not where the perception and feeling comes from, that comes from the brain.

The question is, what experiences the perception? Who has the feeling? Where does POV come from?

In other words, what is the entity within the brain that actually perceives the information?

reply to post by hypnoticka


Maybe I can answer a few of these questions......

Your words Quote:-

"AHA but black matter can be measured so take a brake and read again before try to prove me wrong plus did you heard of the LHC or knows as big bang 2.0 ? that largest scientific test in june 2009 is gonna answer many fundamentalist questions in detail like the one you asked and black holes etc..."

No problem here just the ongoing story of human interpretation.

But at the end of the day all of us are only Primates whose Logic is based on "Double Logic" that is inherent with your or our DNA.

How can you dictate to truth and whatever has produced what you experience????? Do Primates make the Rules I think Not!

your words Quote:-


"brain death doesn't mean there is no chemical reaction in the brain, during NDE(death brain) the brain scans the memory that's why people have life reviews scientists said."


Chemicals are Not the Cause but the Result, but in saying this yes you can ad chemicals that make changes but they all have side effects and never work 100% do they ????

And again it is only Primates interpretation of the situation it does Not prove anything at all.


your words Quote:-

"the brain is not fully understood by nowadays science so making assumption which doesn't belong to science is pointless."

True, try asking the ones who have experienced Death in My case more than 30 minutes Dead so called by Doctors...
But listen carefully to them that have reportable died and come back!!!!

your words Quote:-

"its only 3 in 10 people experience NDE during brain death. explain to me why the others experience absolutely nothing if you think we have a soul"

That is quite Easy to Answer....

When you come to know yourself, that is if you can, you will come to know what you are a part of, and what your so called universe really is....

Your Experience is only a Holographic experience, generated inside the Soul.

The Soul is Not your Mind or Spirit or Primate body.

The Soul is a bit like a Video player of sorts ... LOL..

Now you can't work out how a TV works, by studying the programs shown on screen, now can you???

You have to go round the back and take the back off, to understand the TV in how it works, or look through a few manuals... LOL..

The reason why as you put it.....

"its only 3 in 10 people experience NDE during brain death. explain to me why the others experience absolutely nothing"


Many people are only straight Program and do Not Live.

Others are viewing the observed, from the place of Life.

DNA is only a Chemical program and has No life.

If you do Not know The Life that is Looking out of Your Eyes you are only a Program and are already Dead.

After all DNA is a Program and No one is silly enough to deny this now are they????

It is written in ancient writings,

"He ho has found the world, has only found a Corpse, and He who has found a Corpse, is Superior to the World!"

Not my words, but I agree with them, as I am looking from the Place of Life myself and Not a Brain but rather through the brain...

The Brain is only a Decoder/Encoder between the Consciousness
And the Holographic based Program you call your Environment....

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Solomons
Consciousness is not some magical thing...i hate when people make it out to be,its a natural survival tool,we share it with other intelligent animals but their level of conscious differs...Again its not some magical force,it is a tool the brain uses,much like fight or flight is a tool for dangerous situations etc conscious of your surroundings and feelings of others is good for bonding in groups,hunting among other things...Study chimpanzees and you will see this happening all the time.Like i say its a natural tool for the brain to utilize and resides in the brain,its not some cosmic energy or whatever new age cliche.

The question is not where the perception and feeling comes from, that comes from the brain.

The question is, what experiences the perception? Who has the feeling? Where does POV come from?

In other words, what is the entity within the brain that actually perceives the information?

Awesome you understand I wish others did Not have the problem of knowing Life or Consciousness and start learning about themselves instead of being led like sheep.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


i think your case is very interesting as you are a first hand witnes, just to know, in your 30 minutes dead, you don't breathe and you heart was stoped? and of course you have not received special care as you was oficially dead all this time? if it's yes then medicine will have a hard time to explain WHY you have no brain damage. very very interesting!!

About the soul it's obvious that you know more than i as i everytime have had problems to understand fully the diference betwen spirit and soul, i can see how body is moved by mind, how mind extends far beyond the brain and reaches the psychic world where time and space began to dilute, then how the spirit moves the mind as the mind moves the body. But what is soul and how the soul reaches the divine reality is a mistery for me.

Originally posted by neil a

scientist are giving near death experience a serious look and it has turned skeptics into believers! some very interesting stories in this article from people describing light fixtures and objects only visible from the ceiling to people blind from birth able to see in there experience with death. a lot of scientist now believe the mind and brain are two different things (no news flash there lol)

www.newsmonster.co. uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Breaking News Forum Submission Guidelines – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/11/2008 by Mirthful Me]

You are mistaking belief for fact. It's obvious you believe your "mind" is independent of your brain but you can't prove that. We do not have technology or sufficient understanding to even BEGIN to tackle that question. The brain can exist w/o consciousness. The question is can consciousness exist w/o a brain. Most people do not like the possibility of the answer being no so they cling to the view that we are more than physical meat. I have had personal experiences which have left me wondering but since in the end anything we experience CAN be explained in terms of the brain's electrochemical workings it's impossible to say. Try to remember we do not understand the human brain very much. It's still largely a mystery.

[edit on 11/13/2008 by norman619]

[edit on 11/13/2008 by norman619]

reply to post by norman619


That's exactly right, there's no way to prove the mind can exist without the brain to come back to. How could it be proven? It can't.

FTA: “We now have the technology and scientific knowledge to begin exploring the ultimate question,” says Dr Sam Parnia, leader of the research team at London’s Hammersmith Hospital. “To be honest, I started off as a skeptic but having weighed up all the evidence I now think that there is something going on.

“It’s not possible to talk in terms of ‘life after death’. In scientific terms we can only say that there is now evidence that consciousness may carry on after clinical death. Our work will prove one way or the other whether a form of consciousness carries on after the body and brain has died.”

This is sad. They come off as believers seeking to validate their own unfounded belief. We do not have the technology to test for the existance of something non-physical like the soul or the existance of an afterlife. Their claim that they have the tech is proof they are full of crap. All we can do is examine what goes on inside our physical universe. We are a LONG way away from being able to tackle questions like "Does the soul exist?"

reply to post by vehemes terra eternus


what is nothing? nothing is impossible.So there must be something.

Originally posted by Antigreed
reply to post by vehemes terra eternus

 

what is nothing? nothing is impossible.So there must be something.

you can't say there must be something without logic and scientific evidence. super man existence is possible because nothing is impossible-logic fail

[edit on 13-11-2008 by hypnoticka]

Originally posted by norman619
You are mistaking belief for fact. It's obvious you believe your "mind" is independent of your brain but you can't prove that.

All fact requires belief.

As of right now we couldn't even prove that the MIND exists.

Scientifically we are biological robots.

And as evidence begins to support the idea that the brain and mind are separate entities it still won't be definitively proven.

No evidence on this subject can prove that the "mind" and brain are different OR the same.

However, my interpretation of this evidence points in one direction. That the mind and the brain are not at all the same. The brain may be the receiver of information but what does the examination?

reply to post by norman619


Can you prove to me you exist because I can't see you or feel you what is appearing on my monitor may be only a program.

Now let me see i9f you can prove Scientific and mathematical prove your existence.

If you can prove to me you exist then you never know I might listen to your argument but some how I think you will be struggling to prove to me you have a conscious state.

You see here lies the Problem do you just believe you exist or is it just implied through a program you exist.

Take a good long look at my Avatar and see if it feels familiar to you.

But don't take my challenge personally as though I may be against you because this is Not the case.

I have only said these things to get you feeling more about things that you assume are reality.

Your world is about to change for You !!!

No it is Not I that will change it but it is yourself that is about to change everything for yourself !!!!

Let me know your feelings in a few weeks.....

reply to post by Antigreed


Well what you say is Not Quite true because;

Nothing the only thing that is both "Nothing" and "Something" at the same time.

How often do you say "nothing is there!" or I can't see anything (Nothing) or there is nothing in there ????

How do you recognise Nothing if it doesn't exst..... LOL..

If Nothing did Not exist, then you would not have the Word "Nothing" in the Dictionary now would you ????

Nothing on the "Inside" is defined by its "Outer", in other words if "Nothing is in there", then it has to exist the by the nature of its "boundaries" of that "Nothing" to define that "Nothing is in there"

If you get my point.

And if there is Nothing out there, then this is defined by the existence of something on the "Inside".

So you see the component "Nothing", can be Defined so therefore Noting as a component, does in fact exists, so is in Fact, "Something".

But I understand that this is the only condition that can exist as; both together as One.

Think about it when you have finished your drink of whatever, and look into the glass or cup and see that it is empty and realise nothing is in there for you to drink now... LOL...

So if you want to drink from that glass or cup again, you need to fill it up again.... LOL...

Now what was that you sais about nothing???? LOL..

The Component of "Nothing" is perhaps the least understood of all, by humankind!......LOL.

Happy understanding as you discover in the Future...

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by norman619

 

Can you prove to me you exist because I can't see you or feel you what is appearing on my monitor may be only a program.

Now let me see i9f you can prove Scientific and mathematical prove your existence.

If you can prove to me you exist then you never know I might listen to your argument but some how I think you will be struggling to prove to me you have a conscious state.

You see here lies the Problem do you just believe you exist or is it just implied through a program you exist.

Take a good long look at my Avatar and see if it feels familiar to you.

But don't take my challenge personally as though I may be against you because this is Not the case.

I have only said these things to get you feeling more about things that you assume are reality.

Your world is about to change for You !!!

No it is Not I that will change it but it is yourself that is about to change everything for yourself !!!!

Let me know your feelings in a few weeks.....

your logic is epic fail, he can send you a video or a pic of himself or travel and meet you, he's scientifically communicating with you. do you have a pic and email address of your god that you worship ?

reply to post by norman619


Hi norman619,

Oh Yes The Scientific Industry does....

In about 16 months time we have a product that is being made available to the Public that will allow you to communicate with the other End of Your Mind through The Soul.

We are in the closing stages of preparing a manufacturing program right now as you are so convinced.

I can give you instructions on how to make an inexpensive little device that can allow you to see the soul right now.

If you are really interested in the Truth then contact me Via U2U on abovetopsecret and I will tell you how to get more information on this.

This is in the Form of Technology and has absolutely Nothing at all to do with belief or religious dogma.

And No this is definitely Not a Hoax....

reply to post by hypnoticka


Well come and see me I am waiting for your proof as at This stage your Proof has Failed.

So please complete your Proof for me!

[edit on 13-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by norman619
You are mistaking belief for fact. It's obvious you believe your "mind" is independent of your brain but you can't prove that.

All fact requires belief.

As of right now we couldn't even prove that the MIND exists.

Scientifically we are biological robots.

And as evidence begins to support the idea that the brain and mind are separate entities it still won't be definitively proven.

No evidence on this subject can prove that the "mind" and brain are different OR the same.

However, my interpretation of this evidence points in one direction. That the mind and the brain are not at all the same. The brain may be the receiver of information but what does the examination?

Look You are onto it 110% I just wish others could understand this easily or does it have something to do with their Denial of Life?

If so, this is Tragic isn't it?

Keep up the Good work...

Peace



[edit on 13-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

Post it here.

Is it that box thing you mentioned before to me? I forgot how to do it.



[edit on 13-11-2008 by _Phoenix_]