Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists

Originally posted by dominicus
Isn't the whole NDE thing an intellectual surgery for most atheists?? Specifically since most NDE's speak of a God.

reply to post by mmariebored

 

I have an anti-liar agenda, to be correct. I don't like to see people controlled by people posing as some higher-power authority, and this is what religions do.

Isn't this what your doing now? Posing as a higher authority by saying that others are posing as higher authority. Its the big paradox some dont see.

What you just said is, anyone with an opinion is posing as a "higher authority". I was saying that people who stand behind a religion are standing on what they claim is the "Word of God", which makes my argument factual, they ARE posing as some higher authority, by claiming that what they are saying came from God himself. In order for me to be doing the same thing, I would have had to say that God told me that what I'm saying is the truth, but in fact I said it was MY OWN opinion. I never said it was God's. As religions claim. That whole statement of yours lacked some serious logic and I debated on even responding to the rest.

Subjective proof is proof also, just for that 1 person. If a bunch of people share the same subjective proof, doesnt it make it objective?

No. No it does not. Because that is like saying that everyone who believed the earth is flat, was right.

What if there really is a religion that does know "it" and really is teaching the true path to experience God and be free to see things that are real, beyond the imagination???

What if we all just talk to each other like each other's opinion is what it is, an opinion.

Wouldnt that suck for all those who were bashing it and by doing so missing the point?

"It would be bad" ONLY if we had an unfair God who created us with a brain but did NOT expect us to use our brain, INSTEAD, made us to deny the brain he gave us and believe only what we're told by people claiming to be speaking for him. That would most definately "suck", as you put it.
I wouldn't even want to go to "Heaven", in that case.

Fortunately, I don't believe this is the case. But this is merely my opinion. I do not, in any way, have delusions of grandeur, superior authority on the matter based on some one time experience. No, this is my public forum opinion as one human being speaking to other human beings who also have opinions.





[edit on 22-11-2008 by mmariebored]

reply to post by kindred


You are right onto it!

In fact right now as I write to you there is a device being introduced in about 16 months if all goes well.

It is an optical Interface with the True Mind and is capable of doing exactly what you have said.

It involves a Geometric Processing System that Interfaces with the True Mind.

This is Not an Invention but has been produced by back engineering a huge amount of information recorded in history back to about 5,500 years ago or more.

The reintroduction of this technology is to stimulate humanity to look into a whole new field of understanding and technology involving Life processing systems that are responsible for manifesting the Universe Earth and your experience in this.

This Universe you see is Holographic and has been produced in each independent soul of which are in a huge network that is in conceptual form within The True Mind that has No shape or Size.

This is why most primates have been unable to understand this universe which incidentally is only one of so many it is impossible to count them.

All has been created through fixed rules of Conceptuality, through a processing system based on conceptual Geometry produced by The True Mind in the first Place.

God is Not a primate but God is actually made of two components.

1. A "Word", or more correctly a geometric image formed by a "Word" INZ.

The "Word" God, or in Greek fonts (Not as in the translation of the word though) Gamma Omega Delta translates into Zionic fonts A 6 pointed Star (Star of The House of David) formed by two Delta inside a Circle with 4 little diagonal lines Formed from two Omega, connecting the Circle into the Corners of a Box formed by two Gamma..

2. Life Spirit or The True Mind which your Mind is a Droplet of the All.

So The Component God is a Part of The All!

But this Structure called "God" was in fact Created through the Conceptual Word of INZ.

(Incidentally this word was on the front cover in early bibles even though the Romans coveted the Image)

The "I" in INZ gives the "First" Concept of Movement by The True Mind that was To and Fro.

The "N" was formed by the "2nd" Concept of Movement by The True Mind
To and Fro action in 2D..

Now The "N" was Conceptually Rotated to produce the "Z".

This was the 3rd Concept of The True Mind, "Rotation"!

So we have the Two Base Building Blocks to The All!

"To and Fro" = Straight.

"Rotation" = Curved.

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong in finding anything at all in your Universe that is either Not Straight or Curved or the Combination of these Two....

Even empty space if it could exist at all has dimension!

whether in 2D or 3D or any other Dimension.

So you can now see you are definitely onto the correct understanding of the All.

Good Work and I hope to read more of your comments in the Future.

reply to post by mmariebored

No. No it does not. Because that is like saying that everyone who believed the earth is flat, was right.

I said subjective proof. "Thinking" that the earth is flat isn't subjective proof. Its a subjective theory. Im speaking of subjective proof such as experiencing that oranges , when eaten, taste rich in citrus flavor, and vary in taste. When others, also subjectively experience this, it becomes objective.

Then it becomes a separation of "experiencers of oranges" vs. "readers & speculators of oranges"

Truly you would agree with me that in this matter the former holds the higher and more truthful perspective over the reality of the orange over the latter.

What if we all just talk to each other like each other's opinion is what it is, an opinion.

Sure we could do that. We could put forth opinions all day long until we take our last breath, making points back and forth, debating, sure we could. But, what if there is a level of truth, a higher way of seeing things the right way. What if there is a set of people who have the right truth about a whole bunch of things???

Then those "truthers" have it right but everyone else not in this category thinks its "just" opinion, when in all reality they could be the highest authority of the truth. we see all the time that many opinions have it wrong, like the flat earth opinion.

There is such thing as absolute truth. Personally I could care less about a bunch of revolving opinions, i want absolute truth and it exists, and some people are right and many people are wrong, about allot of things.

"It would be bad" ONLY if we had an unfair God who created us with a brain but did NOT expect us to use our brain, INSTEAD, made us to deny the brain he gave us and believe only what we're told by people claiming to be speaking for him. That would most definitely "suck", as you put it. I wouldn't even want to go to "Heaven", in that case.

Well the brain is a double edge sword. It can choose to deny truth or accept it. To deny, it would come up w/ a whole bunch of excuses, intellectual traps, and biases. To accept, it would look at all the facts good & bad and decide to wrestle with it enough to accept it.

What if there is a group of people that really is speaking for God and what their asking you to believe really is real?????

What would suck about this??? You have free will to go which ever route you wish. But if there is a higher state of being and knowing truth, and if your not there and if Im not there, then we sure are missing out on allot. And if there is truth, and we dont have it, then we're just a bunch of opinionators and speculators missing the point.

Fortunately, I don't believe this is the case. But this is merely my opinion. I do not, in any way, have delusions of grandeur, superior authority on the matter based on some one time experience. No, this is my public forum opinion as one human being speaking to other human beings who also have opinions.

The key word here is that you dont "believe" this is the case. There is a difference between believing and knowing. Also one may think that another person merely believes, but in realty that person may know. Difficult to distinguish this, yet easy to assume belief over knowing.

........based on some one time experience ....what if your one time experience becomes your "all the time," never ending reality, and others share it, and its a better and a higher form of being than the previous reality??

we can speak human to human using opinions all day. But I'd rather find absolute truth, and if God is as real as all these NDE's are saying, I want to meet the maker. Opinions mean nothing and are worthless if truth and God are real, and there is someone speaking the truth.

Its a very credible concept to say there could be a person or group of people that really "know" about these things we are discussing

reply to post by dominicus


Look the only proof of anything regarding death so called and what happens next can only be found by the Individual that reaches that stage in his Life when the Story is about to change and has to face the experience in his own way and entirely by himself.

What we expect to happen shall Not happen and what we don't expect to happen Shall happen !!!!

At that Time all of us find Truth.

And All the B.S. passes away, leaving pure Truth.

No matter what we believe or reject has No affect what so ever in the End!

But where The End is, There The Beginning is also!

Originally posted by dominicus
........based on some one time experience ....what if your one time experience becomes your "all the time," never ending reality, and others share it, and its a better and a higher form of being than the previous reality??

Then that's fine, but why start a religion over your version of "reality"?

we can speak human to human using opinions all day. But I'd rather find absolute truth, and if God is as real as all these NDE's are saying, I want to meet the maker. Opinions mean nothing and are worthless if truth and God are real, and there is someone speaking the truth.

ONE near death experience cannot possibly define God or the truth about God. There's no way to know if someone is speaking the truth unless you yourself had a similar experience. And even if you have a group of people saying the same thing, you have to take into consideration that they might be crutching off of each other's version of "reality" on the issue.

Its a very credible concept to say there could be a person or group of people that really "know" about these things we are discussing.

"Credible" is a strong word to use to define a group of people who had a similar dream.

reply to post by mmariebored

"Credible" is a strong word to use to define a group of people who had a similar dream.

Except they were clinically dead.

The same/similar experience, yes. Dream, no.

The discussion is returning to where we started. Posting this link in the hope things don't just go in circles:

'Temporary death experience'

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by mmariebored

 

"Credible" is a strong word to use to define a group of people who had a similar dream.

Except they were clinically dead.

The same/similar experience, yes. Dream, no.

You can not prove that what they experienced was not a dream that took place during the waking stage of their brush with death.

In read a book dealing with government testing of concentrated '___' on volunteer patients and it had suprisingly interesting correlating facts within each case that to some degree push the ideas of extra dimensional possibilites and such,its fascinating! Check it out, and sorry if this seems o/t. Its just that as I read the accounts of the patients I got the feel of what they were describing as being a momentary hole punch from one reality to another by way of the '___'....makes you wonder what your doing when your dreaming....I always wondered if you tickle the concept of where you go when you die when you dream.There's that saying of course, Sleep is kin to Death *shruggs*

reply to post by Solomons


the reason why hundreds of people dont have them is because... if you were a christian you would know that god selectively chooses the people who he feels fit to share it with the world.... trust me when we die we all go somewhere... say like if you had one... you probably would not make a web page trying to get it ranked in google to share it with the world...you would probably keep it to yourself or just share it with you friends and family..... im not judgeing you.... im just saying

I know it's hard to imagine, but imagine if we come into another body, after being 'dead' (= actually being in another dimension), and as we settle ourselves into the new body (animal, human, tree, planet,...), we do not remember anything about our previouse enterings in bodies. But thinking about 'Previously: time does not exist anymore from the point of view from reïncarnation. If we never remember any other live we have been in, then every generation of life on this planet, happened on the same time from our point of view in our body.

Text Blue
If we enter into a new body and we are a child, we live more in our hearts instead of in our brains. We might even dream about our previouse lives (not previous but at the same time)

If we die, we come (as pure energy) in another dimension, or vibration, or what to call it, and in this state, we remember EVERY life that you've been into. About infinitive amount of bodies? For some reason, we go into new bodies. Is it because we need to live in bodies, in order to search for the beauty of the universe on our own way (free will)? It sounds like a giant simulation.

I believe that dying is not just 'the end'. Everything is energy. Everything is vibration. There is no difference between solid or gas or liquid and one energy form does not just dissapear, no, it changes into another form of energy (another vibration?). Our body is just anorganic material, being organic because the soul that is in it.
Why do we get healthier if we get much love? Because love is pure energy and it makes our body more in the good vibes.

I think really the most important thought about Reïncarnation is: If we do switch from one body into another,
It does matter how we live on the planet in order to give our future, wich means ourselves, a good future in the planet!!

anyone thinks the same or could correct me in some way?
sorry about some language mistakes (i'm dutch)

reply to post by neil a


Dean Braxton Died for 1 hr 45 minutes and came back to life from a kidney infection gone wrong at the hospital. Doctors Reports are in his book.
Also interviewed on The Biography Channel
He tells what he saw:

www.deanbraxton.com... (DeanBraxton.com)

reply to post by neil a

RE: Dean Braxton Died for 1 hr 45 minutes and came back to life from a kidney infection gone wrong at the hospital. Doctors Reports are in his book.
Also interviewed on The Biography Channel
He tells what he saw:

www.deanbraxton.com... (DeanBraxton.com)

________
Hey I saw that Dean Braxton one on the biography channel! He was really neat, his wife too, explains her side.

I would be more willing to believe it if they weren't whoring a book on their website at a rather nifty price

reply to post by blueorder


Then just watch the discovery channel one - it's free on there, plus there's lots on youtube ...

reply to post by neil a


I agree the Near-death experiences are real i had at least two near death experiences.

Who knows!

reply to post by Smugallo


Yea your right. Then how do you account for those experiences with no brain activity. Never mind the fact that their is '___' in the brain.. because honestly the neurons in the brain aren't firing, so their is no activity. Hallucinations, hearing stuff, feelings none of that would register.

If there truly was a void.. nothing after death, then NDE wouldn't be heard of. Everyone would come back saying they don't remember anything.

Death isn't the end of the line. That's the coolest thing of all.

Originally posted by Memysabu
I dont believe it at all.
Chemicals left over cause the experience.

Brain activity does not cease at the second of death.

How does that account for a blind person from birth, seeing the object and able to clearly describe it?

Skeptics always crack me up, must be lonely in your head since you believe it is all for not.

reply to post by Eavel


That's what my money is on, heh. How can the "brain" see? The eyes see everything, but the brain simply translate those light impulses. When your dead, the eyes have stopped transmitting those light signals.

Consciousness exists on many levels. I think it's foolish to classify ours as the only one considering how much we don't know.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.