Near-death experiences are real and we have the proof, say scientists

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by melatonin

 

Don't misunderstand me, but we all have a little problem, that hides in our DNA Structure, that introduces "Double Logic" and this contaminates our whole being.

Okie

doke.



[edit on 11-11-2008 by melatonin]

Electromagnetic treatments using scalar waves are used to create these states: The Wellcome inst. aircraft industry and big bussiness tried to supress that it was possibile to create anything electronically..
The militry in the 1930`s took and still is taking this technology too its fullest form......

Scalar waves or non-linear waves are the basis of how these electromagentic healing devices work, they break the cell membrane according to Dr George Carlo.. Yet many doctors are getting fixted on the healing and out of body states tht can be produced..
They having serious effect on us all, and no one to stop the men as its largely men that have got hold this not so new technology hiddern by the military and industry of the past..

This technology is breaking into the spiritual and changeing our DNA.
There no one to stop them pushing the button and drawing us into the Arc.
Very dangrous and even purvered teritory.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by hypnoticka

 

don't be stupid, history archeology doesn't validate facts, why don't you believe in the ancient Egypt's gods and Asian's gods ? these have the same historically archeology

There really is no need to cast insults & risk further points deductions.

Your meaning regarding archeology is not entirely clear. Suffice it to say I have met a couple of archeology professors who share my faith, one of whom is a leader in his field. (I could list many other scientists who are personal friends and who share my faith such as a research mathematician (who is on ATS), a chemical engineer, a PhD physicist, hospital consultants, a cancer researcher, and on and on, but there doesn't seem much point in listing them all.)

I don't believe in those other God's because they were not able to foretell future events in exquisite detail hundreds/thousands of years in advance, left no god-like moral teachings, never entered the world in the form of a man and never demonstrated their power over death itself.

Let's not drift off topic, though.

well if you go to India,then you'll find millions of Hindu doctors that doesn't prove anything

"I don't believe in those other God's because they were not able to foretell future events in exquisite detail hundreds/thousands of years in advance, left no god-like moral teachings, never entered the world in the form of a man and never demonstrated their power over death itself"

honey you are closed minded like i said there are many religions with historical evidence but what the hell does that prove ? . Buddhism is like god-moral teaching so Hinduism and Islam. yeah if your god is "moral" why the bible demand that we should put homosexuals to death ? did you read the old testament ? that book has many violent passages you can't deny that. you are being tear it apart that's what happen when you don't use your brain. become open minded so you can get rid off your delusional and learn some history.(no offensive)

[edit on 11-11-2008 by hypnoticka]

[edit on 11-11-2008 by hypnoticka]

"Can you answer why many people are revived from death and have no NDE.Someone described it to me as simply waking up after a sleep...ie no tunnels,lights outer body experiences.So if this a natural phenomena that happens to the conscious,then why do these people not have NDE's...im pretty sure they have a conscious.Or could it be certain levels of chemicals released that vary person to person due to body chemistry therefore some people have NDE's and others do not? It is interesting though..."

Good question...therefore it should be studied further....oh that’s what they re doing...So until they determine what the answer is. there is very credible data that suggests there is in fact a duality,even partical physics shows that...why some and not others...maybe others had not reached the point of separation or would not allow the separation for some reason...the fact that there is very credible data that suggests something more after death...would not true "people of science" err on the side of caution and say "looks like there might be" as apposed to "nope! When your dead your dead thats it" Very interesting.

Originally posted by hypnoticka
buddy science doesn't work like that, you are misinterpret every subject of science if science worked like, then we'd not be where we are.

Look at history.

Science DOES and HAS worked like that forever.

As technology and science itself moves forward we always have to erase the rules and write new ones.

I'm not say it isn't useful for practical and reproducible results but nothing is ever absolute.

Unknown variables and a lack of perfect technology are only a couple of the reasons why science is not a "perfect "science".

Preconceived notions also add to this factor because it is impossible to diagnose a situation and analyze evidence without a personal bias.

Especially when the bias concerns what does and doesn't exist or what is or isn't possible.

With this kind of bias all evidence can rationalized as inconclusive.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by hypnoticka
buddy science doesn't work like that, you are misinterpret every subject of science if science worked like, then we'd not be where we are.

Look at history.

Science DOES and HAS worked like that forever.

As technology and science itself moves forward we always have to erase the rules and write new ones.

I'm not say it isn't useful for practical and reproducible results but nothing is ever absolute.

Unknown variables and a lack of perfect technology are only a couple of the reasons why science is not a "perfect "science".

Preconceived notions also add to this factor because it is impossible to diagnose a situation and analyze evidence without a personal bias.

Especially when the bias concerns what does and doesn't exist or what is or isn't possible.

With this kind of bias all evidence can rationalized as inconclusive.

im sorry i got it wrong. i thought you were saying something else though i don't know what are you talking about, yes science discover news things and change of course the earth is not flat but what's your point ?

reply to post by hypnoticka


My point is that preconceived notions change the way an individual interprets evidence. Sometimes these preconceived notions come from science sometimes not.

Let's say people in general always just assumed we had souls and we lived forever.

The logic being, we ARE here, the Universe is perfect, we will be here forever in some form of another. We exist. Period.

However, their is no scientific evidence to support that we are separate from our brains. That the mind and brain are separate.

But if these people looked at the OP's evidence, it would support their preconceived notions that people had souls.

The evidence would support their point of view. So it WOULD be conclusive to them.

Here is a little tidbit for all of ya out there.Scientists have weighed the human body many times at the moment of death for research purposes and have found that the body loses a very small amount of weight at that exact moment.What else could it be other than the actual soul(spirit) leaving the body.I read somewhere and cannot remember what famous scientist said that if the human soul is real it would most likely have actual weight.

reply to post by Jezus


When are people on earth going to wake up and realise they are primates in a zoo, But their Consciousness is entirely separate from the Primate ???

Humankind or the Primate is a half breed....

Half of earth and half Alien...

The development of humankind on earth, is an ongoing program, but the Most important of all is The true Mind.

Without The True Mind you can do absolutely nothing at all, so why reject the Mind....

Sooner or later the children of earth will have to accept, they are Not alone and that there are peoples that are millions of years ahead of what are on earth.

There is in front of you, a time of adjustment that involves the human race, both socially and technically, that will bring them into another era of development.

And one day perhaps their rightful place in the Program.

We must lean to stop shutting our eyes to reality, thinking we are the greatest thing going in the universe and realise we are
Not a mistake or just sort of fell out nowhere.

The more you close your minds, the greater the shock will be so lets see a little more trust in Life, or Consciousness rather than putting the primate higher than the Mind.

These changes are knocking at the door as to say, so please be wise and wake up.....

Stop pretending that all that exists, is you and a insignificant little rock called earth.

The True Mind is really the most important part and Not the primate!

Hell if you went only a couple of million miles out into the program as to say you would Not even know where you came from....

You must pre-pair yourselves so you are able to accept what happens in your near future.

Forget the B.S. you have been brought up in, and open your Mind...

Denial will only bring pain and suffering to you...

People Make their own Hell it is Not made for them but is by their own choice as a result of insecurity lack of trust and denial...

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Well personally I think it is evident when looking at nature and life and perfect system that we have here.

Creatures literally die in order to reproduce.

I have no reason to think I will ever NOT exist.

The only reason we perceive death as an end because we can't see past it.

However the system is more perfect than we think, as time goes on science and spiritually will become one.

In fact...it has already begun...

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

Well personally I think it is evident when looking at nature and life and perfect system that we have here.

Creatures literally die in order to reproduce.

I have no reason to think I will ever NOT exist.

The only reason we perceive death as an end because we can't see past it.

However the system is more perfect than we think, as time goes on science and spiritually will become one.

In fact...it has already begun...

Yes I would have to agree 100% with you.

Many are able to see with an open mind such as yourself but unfortunately there are those that are so insecure they are unable to even look at the possibility that the Mind is in fact separate from the brain.

The time we are coming into now will be over a number of years with the introduction of new technologies while the old will pass away and science and spiritually will become one.

I suggest to others in this thread to take a look at:-

Project Camelot interview released Sept 2007. Or watch it on youtube, interview 1, interview 2, interview 3 Through ATS.

Interesting and I as one can vouch for this situation he summarises here.

Many may think this is getting of the track of things but it may offer some assurance to do with death or the lack of death in that our Conscious state goes on and never ends.

But seriously, there is far more to Life and your experience than being restricted to a total lack of understand of many.

People have to wake up and realise what has produced their experience is so far beyond their expectations and feeble beliefs it impossible for people to conceive because of not being informed of those things which they know nothing at all about.

So it gives me joy to see your healthy attitude to Life or Consciousness or True Mind...

Peace...




[edit on 12-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Solomons


Thank you for reading my invisible thoughts, with those of your own.

Good topic. If you are really into this topic, then you should search the Internet for the topic,

"The Department of Positive Out of Body Possibilities"

or

"tim484848"

Inner thought energy can not be destroyed. No more than any other energy. According to science. They say that energy can not be made, destroyed, but it can change form.

Science already knows that there is something to this, and that is why they got funding for the next three years to do more research with near death experience people.

I believed they figured this out after their experiment last year back fired on them.

Last year they tricked humans into thinking they were having an out of body experience. It would be the equivalent of tricking a woman into thinking she is pregnant, but after the smoke cleared. Woman can still have babies, and humans can still have out of body experience.

Noe if you go to the topic I spoke of before, then you can find out more about my free idea concept for communicating with afterlife in a way that can be measured, and I will also be glad to answer any questions you have.

Everything in life happens for a reason, and this topic is no different.

One of the Worlds Greatest Inventors, Thomas A. Edison believed it was possible, but he would not build anything, unless he thought he could sell it.

I offer a free way to do it, and I am still having trouble finding people who would want this option.

tim484848






t

And back to NDE's ....

I believe that NDE is a real experience caused (in part) by a sudden release of '___' (Di-Methyl-Tryptamin) in/by the pineal. This occurs routinely at birth and at death, and for some people spontaneously at some point during life. (read Rick Strassman PhD, 'The Spirit Molecule')

The NDE can be created at any time by ingesting '___' in some form, as is routinely practised by many cultures and religions around the world. So if you would like to know what life after death (or at least the initial stages) will look and feel like, there's your ticket

Maybe the people who go through temporary death but do not report a NDE experience are similar to those who ingest '___' but fail to get any kind of experience, which does happen.

edit for spelling

[edit on 12/11/08 by RogerT]

reply to post by hypnoticka

well if you go to India,then you'll find millions of Hindu doctors that doesn't prove anything

On the contrary. It provides further evidence of my point: that spirituality and faith in God are not precluded by being a scientist. There are plenty of Muslim scientists too, incidentally. If you actually focussed on what I said rather than assuming something I did not, you would take things off topic less frequently.

if your god is "moral" why the bible demand that we should put homosexuals to death ?

You are asking theological questions more suited to another thread. A brief response is required, however. The law you refer to was an aspect of the judicial system of the Jewish nation, which included the death penalty for all Israelites who practised sexual relations outside of marriage. It was a theocracy, which God used to demonstrate the degree of his moral purity and, in this case, the seriousness of sexual immorality. This is a biblically and historically accurate explanation. It was not victimization, it was a moral standard that revealed God's standards to be higher than ours. After Christ God no longer operates via a single nation and the theocratic judicial system no longer applies. Mercy and forgiveness prevail through the Cross.

you don't use your brain

Some who read my posts might conclude differently.


reply to post by RogerT

Thanks for taking things back on topic. I would like to pose the question: if NDEs (as opposed to OBEs) were chemical-induced, why would they so frequently involve a meeting with God, describing a city, meeting relatives, aspects of judgement, etc., etc., even in the case of skeptics/atheists, when a chemical would be expected to produce quite random experiences in the realm of hallucinations?

I'm short of time, but hope to explore this topic further.




[edit on 12/11/08 by pause4thought]

reply to post by RogerT

Hi RogerT,

I have never tried it...

When I had my death experience so called where I was pronounced Brain Dead as in 0 or Zero brain activity I was dead for more than 30 minutes as recorded and blood tests were taken at the time as Doctors could not understand why I had died. Nothing untoward showed up other than what happens when you die.

'___' was not mentioned.

Oh by the way in that particular month many young people here died so a lot of information was I understand collected.

When I was aware of your world again I got up and found a doctor who was shocked at first to see me up and walking again and appeared to be very nervous about this and after a little while he had the courage to check me again. At that time my blood pressure was 0 or Zero and I still had No pulse or heart beat.
I was rushed off to another room where I was monitored and a little later my heart started again and I had considerable chest discomfort like cramp and slowly after some time things returned to normal.

Further tests were repeated in the following days and there was No Brain damage found in the scans and my blood pressure became normal for the first time in my life.

Before this experience my blood pressure was always slightly low but never a problem.

All this happened in August 1973....

What I experienced was nothing at all like a human experience, but in that state thinking did not exist but I was aware of the All and after this experience I desired to return to the same state.

In the years that followed I learnt much from what many would call the Light but I refer to It as The True Mind.

For many years latter I had Interviews with Specialists regarding this experience and was often had medical checks.

Today I am meant to b retired after having had my own business designing and manufacturing Automotive control computers.

But I am presently involved with the Development of Optical Interfaces with The True Mind.
At present we are gearing up to put a simple optical Interface into the market place in the form of a child's toy to introduce the technology we have found.

Why a toy?

Well this ios quite simple really because there is a lot of superstition and anxiety around the thought of interfacing with the True mind through an Optical Interface.

So I suppose you could look at our method of introduction as being of an acclimatisation program.

We feel it necessary to introduce this technology and leave it for thousands of others to develop into as many different areas as possible.

I am sure once this has been done more shall be understood about The True Mind and many Questions will be answered involving the subject of Death so called...

reply to post by pause4thought


Can you tell me why humankind needs Justification of what may or may not happen in NDE's or Death experiences.

Where is Our Faith in Life ???

Has No one any Faith in The Life ????

Jesus Said,

"I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life."

or I Am The Way The Truth and The Light."

The Light ( in Greek is Phos or Sun Light or any other Light) of Man, that Lighteth every man that cometh into the World which is The Life of God Which is The Only begotten Son of God.

The Life meaning The Life of God or The Life of The Word God...

Life is Consciousness. Conscience is the the spiritual reaction to our actions and Conscience comes from Consciousness or The True Mind or The Life of The Word God.

But as I have already said many times you have to go back to the Zionic language to understand the True Nature of The Word God.

So why has so many Lost Faith ????

The big red flag in that article is "There are cultural differences in these experiences."
That right there tells me this is a product of mind. There is an archetypal element to the different cultures reaction to near death, but I would suspect it is because the beliefs within that culture have an archetypal element to them.
If it was a glimpse into something that is out of this universe, or even just out of the spere of that culture, it would more than likely have a universal homogenity to it - not be reliant upon your cultural past.
It may be that what is happening can only be understood in terms of your cultural symbology and language, but there are a lot of NDE's that do not represent the models that are shown in the article. It would seem a persons reaction to near-death is personal. That many of them have the same qualities comes down to nothing more than cultural bias. How many of those tribesmen where told that when they die, they paddle the Great River, or how many westerners read a magazine article or watched an Oprah episode where they are talking about NDE's and moving to the light? It is there, in your subconcious, and may well be pulled out of the "what happens when you die" compartment of the subconcious when your mind realises it's just about to die. There is probably vastly more NDE's which do not fit what is 'supposed' to happen, than what actually do, as it is based on personal experience and personal reaction to the death event, and the fact they have never compatmentalised what your supposed to see when you die, as opposed to some mystic intervention.
It's just your bodies defense mechanism protecting you from the shock of your own death.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by hypnoticka

 

well if you go to India,then you'll find millions of Hindu doctors that doesn't prove anything

On the contrary. It provides further evidence of my point: that spirituality and faith in God are not precluded by being a scientist. There are plenty of Muslim scientists too, incidentally. If you actually focussed on what I said rather than assuming something I did not, you would take things off topic less frequently.

if your god is "moral" why the bible demand that we should put homosexuals to death ?

You are asking theological questions more suited to another thread. A brief response is required, however. The law you refer to was an aspect of the judicial system of the Jewish nation, which included the death penalty for all Israelites who practised sexual relations outside of marriage. It was a theocracy, which God used to demonstrate the degree of his moral purity and, in this case, the seriousness of sexual immorality. This is a biblically and historically accurate explanation. It was not victimization, it was a moral standard that revealed God's standards to be higher than ours. After Christ God no longer operates via a single nation and the theocratic judicial system no longer applies. Mercy and forgiveness prevail through the Cross.

you don't use your brain

Some who read my posts might conclude differently.


reply to post by RogerT

 

Thanks for taking things back on topic. I would like to pose the question: if NDEs (as opposed to OBEs) were chemical-induced, why would they so frequently involve a meeting with God, describing a city, meeting relatives, aspects of judgement, etc., etc., even in the case of skeptics/atheists, when a chemical would be expected to produce quite random experiences in the realm of hallucinations?

I'm short of time, but hope to explore this topic further.




[edit on 12/11/08 by pause4thought]

if the old testament doesn't apply to you anymore, then why many of preachers still preach the old testament, you are ignoring the fact that modern morality and dark age morality are two different things

"Thanks for taking things back on topic. I would like to pose the question: if NDEs (as opposed to OBEs) were chemical-induced, why would they so frequently involve a meeting with God, describing a city, meeting relatives, aspects of judgement, etc., etc., even in the case of skeptics/atheists, when a chemical would be expect"

people experience religious NDEs because the brain memorize every thing you hear and learn especially if live in a culture where religion is debatable and practiced. like i said people experienced Islam,Hinduism and Buddhism NDEs, doesn't that make these religions true and Christianity false ?. if people think the way you do then everything is real whether is black or white.

here are the visions of which people may experience during brain death:

1. out of body experience
2. tunnel,light and peace
3. religious stuff
4. talking with the death and death relatives
5. life reviewing
6. fantasies ex. mountains,gardens,flowers,universe etc..

which one of these convince you ? but are they all real ? if our soul exist, it is independent ?

the majority of people don't experience any NDE during brain death so do these people sleep forever ?

you can only come to 1 conclusion which is: chemical reaction and nothing else

Consciousness is not some magical thing...i hate when people make it out to be,its a natural survival tool,we share it with other intelligent animals but their level of conscious differs...Again its not some magical force,it is a tool the brain uses,much like fight or flight is a tool for dangerous situations etc conscious of your surroundings and feelings of others is good for bonding in groups,hunting among other things...Study chimpanzees and you will see this happening all the time.Like i say its a natural tool for the brain to utilize and resides in the brain,its not some cosmic energy or whatever new age cliche.

It is interesting in this thread to see many differences of pinions.

Look I have to clarify something here, so it can be understood correctly.

As a result of my own death in August 1973 I have had a few years in trying to understand what took place.

Now I can only tell you my version, because as it has been said by others on this thread, that it is a personal event.

Even though I had been brought up in a Christian family, I found that the experience was nothing like, what I had been taught in Roman Doctrine which is called Christianity today.

But in saying that, I could relate to what was taught by the Churches, but this does Not say that Roman Doctrine of the Western world is correct, as I find a huge degree of mistranslation between Eastern culture and Western regarding the ancient writings.

A number of people on this thread, say the experience is determined by Cultural Influence, and I would have to agree.

But in saying this, there is one thing in common, in all these experiences and that is that people were aware of something....

So the common experience is awareness and this can affect people, in a million and one different ways as many have said it is a Personal happening.

But this is meant to be, as we are individuals, and each individual, has different needs even though we are of One.

What we experience, is Not necessarily important, but rather that we find ourselves aware.

In my case there was No thinking involved.

I was merely in the state of the observer, that was neither for or against what was happening.

I saw No human form, or any other form, other than Pure White Light and I became Consumed by this Light, and in that state became one with it.

It had absolutely nothing at all, to do with human expectation, or human understanding.

Even tough I was aware of All, nothing focused down to the point, where I knew of, what my flesh was, or Wife or Children, friends or family were, or that they even existed.

I found the so called tunnel of Light, to be merely ones sensation of approaching, caused by an ever expanding Disc of Light, what turned out to be a "White Mask" in the form of a Face or surface, that was Non dimensional, but in saying this It had only three sensations.

First there was No Judgement in the form of Condemnation.
Second was a sense of acceptance in human terms we would call it extremely deep Love without boundaries.
Thirdly It knew All.

But then many people, also experience this as a common experience.

So I do not regard myself as something special above anyone but rather would serve others no matter what Flack I may receive.

Over the years I have examined every facet of the experience.

I did my utmost to prevent my personal thoughts and feelings from interfering with gaining understanding of the experience.

I felt I had a duty to myself and others to make sure I could truly understand to the best of my ability.

The only Difference, I can find with regard to others experience, is that I entered the Light and became One with the Light.

It was in this Timeless State, I knew All but it was Nothing at All, like any human feeling and I have never experienced anything like it in a human way since.

But in Later years, I became involved in a project in 1993 with R&D in Optical Interfaces, with The Light, or what I call "The True Mind" or Awareness.

To date I have produce more than 30,000 Geometric drawings that are precise, in their structure that explain the whole workings of what is called the soul today.

This has taken about 15 to 16 years Full time (up to 16 hours a day every day) on this subject...

But the Soul is Not known today. The Soul in fact, Not Consciousness or Mind, it is another body, that does Not look human, but is in fact a huge lattice work of light, similar to that shown in my Avatar.

This is a "Partition Map" that is used in the processing of everything.

No Geometric Components are Not shown here, as it is merely the base map that is in The Soul.

The Holographic experience you are witnessing, as your universe is processed in the form of "Virtual Reality" of the perfect kind.

But back to this Death or in some cases near Death experience...

Firstly There are those that are aware of Life, and those who are Not aware...

This has nothing at all to do, with religion or right or wrong.

And Secondly. the world is full of armchair experts, who themselves have forgotten the experience of so called death, as they have fallen asleep, and are Not aware of what is, Truly Life.

They are only aware of their flesh and are totally caught up in their materialistic world and therefore assume falsely, that life is a Human or Primate!

But all in the End those that are alive, or should I say observe from the place of Life, will encounter a transition that is called Death by the Primate.

There is None of you, that can escape this Fact, but I must say it will be the greatest stage of your education, which is part of this whole experience.

You shall, All know what everything is about after you so called death.

This experience of so called Earth, is to set you up, for the Conclusion at the End of the story of Earth, but It is dependent on the full term of your experience, in this Holographic World you call the Earth and Universe, generated by the Soul.

Not One of you, can Dispute the experience, each and every one of you, will experience at the end of your apparent life as to say, on earth, as you have No say whatsoever in what will happen, as it is All the result of a Program produced through "The True Mind" or Consciousness.

It is Impossible for any of you, to change this Fact, no matter what you believe, no matter what your religion is or your beliefs, because they are part of your experience!

But I only wish that a few of you, would listen to or take some notice of what I have written.

The time and effort I put into this, is Not for myself, but for You.

I know First Hand of the Death Experience so called, because I have been where some of you, can only wonder about or deny, according to your superstition and personal fears.

This is intended to offend any of you, but say that I do understand the human condition as an observer.

It was written to merely share with you, for your own benefit, some account of One who has experienced being "Brain Dead" for more than 30 minutes in the Month of August 1973 and returned to be a witness of this event first hand...








[edit on 12-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]