Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

On a brief side note:

"Russia's leaders, rich with oil wealth and corrupt with power, have rejected democratic ideals and the obligations of a responsible power. They invaded a small, democratic neighbor to gain more control over the world's oil supply, intimidate other neighbors, and further their ambitions of reassembling the Russian empire."

- John McCain: RNC 2008


This might need an update if Senator McCain wins on November 4:

wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

Oh, and here:

wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_for_military_action_against_Iran

Hopefully not here:

wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_3


Fingers crossed, though, eh?

U.S. appeals to Ukraine to unite with West

* Cheney appeals to Ukraine to unite

* Russia criticises Cheney visit

* U.S. Sixth Fleet flagship docks in Georgian port

* EU foreign ministers discuss sending monitors to Georgia

By Tabassum Zakaria

KIEV, Sept 5 (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney appealed to Ukraine's divided leaders on Friday to unite and forge closer links with the West, pledging Washington's support for Kiev to join the NATO military alliance.

Cheney was visiting amid a political crisis in Ukraine which has split the ruling coalition and sparked fresh debate about whether the former Soviet republic should draw closer to the West, to Russia, or pursue a neutral stance.

"The United States has a deep and abiding interest in your wellbeing and security," Cheney said after meeting President Viktor Yushchenko, a pro-Western seeking rapid NATO membership.

Ukraine's best hope to overcome threats, he added, "is to be united, united domestically first and foremost and united with other democracies."

(AlertNet)

Russia backed over Georgia, angry at US ship

MOSCOW (AFP) — Russia won backing over Georgia Friday from six heads of ex-Soviet states and hit out at the United States for sending a navy flagship to a key Georgian port where its troops have been patrolling.

The renewed support for Russia from the leaders of a Moscow-dominated bloc called the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO) came as US Vice President Dick Cheney wrapped up a tour of America's allies in the region.

Cheney told Ukraine's squabbling leaders they must unite on a pro-Western course if they wanted to avoid the prospect of a Russian invasion similar to the one that befell Georgia last month.

(AFP)

Russian parliament speaker:

- Dick Cheney organized the war; he's an enemy of all humanity.

- War was carried out in order to promote 'puppet' John McCain.

- U.S. military industrial complex wants to leave McCain in office.

- U.S. will confront Russia again in August 2016 (to achieve the same objective).

- Israel will bomb Iran in November; U.S. will support them.

- Saakashvili should have been captured and executed.

- The EU is 'gutless'; they united together because it is much easier to die together.

(Information derived from subtitled English translation)

Truth about how the war started.

michaeltotten.com...

Watch this video below.

app2.capitalreach.com...

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Truth about how the war started.

michaeltotten.com...

Watch this video below.

app2.capitalreach.com...

Thanks for this Link though I'm sure our Russian friends (cough, cough) will dismiss it as biased.

Czechs expect more Georgia-type crises from Russia

UNITED NATIONS, Sept 5 (Reuters) - An increasingly wealthy and confident Russia has been testing the West with its invasion of Georgia and it is likely there will be more such crises in the region, a senior Czech official said on Friday.

"We (in the West) are being tested; we should be careful and we should be firm," said Czech Deputy Foreign Minister Tomas Pojar, who met with senior U.S. officials in Washington this week on Czech plans to host part of a missile shield.

In an interview with a small group of reporters at the United Nations, Pojar said his country believed the Russian invasion of Georgia was not the last crisis that would pit the new bolder Russia against the West.

"We would not be surprised if similar events ... develop in Crimea," he said.

Some analysts have also said the Crimea region in southern Ukraine could be used by Russia to destabilize the country. It hosts Russia's Black Sea fleet in the port of Sevastopol, and the majority of people living there are ethnic Russians.

"We hope that this is not going to happen," said Pojar. "But ... the situation there is not very stable and to provoke more instability would probably not be that difficult."

Russia invaded Georgia last month to thwart an attempt by the Georgian military to retake the separatist enclave of South Ossetia, which, like another Georgian rebel region known as Abkhazia, broke away from Tbilisi in the early 1990s.

CZECH WARNING

Pojar said that the Czechs, who were subjected to a Soviet-led invasion 40 years ago of what was then still communist Czechoslovakia, were not surprised when war broke out in the Caucasus last month.

"We were predicting it was possible, that there may be some escalation," he said. "Of course, we didn't know when, if it would be for sure. We were trying to avoid it and warn everyone to be cautious."

Western officials have said the Georgian leadership did not listen to those who advised caution.

U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney has been touring southern Caucasus and Black Sea states this week, where he told Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili that Washington remained fully committed to Tbilisi's bid to join NATO, despite Russia's fierce opposition to the alliance's eastward expansion.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko told Cheney on Friday NATO membership was vital to protect his country, which shares a long land border with Russia and has many ethnic Russians.

The Czechs and the Poles have infuriated Moscow by agreeing to allow the United States to build a U.S. missile shield. Pojar said the Georgian conflict had no impact on the Czech negotiations with the United States on the radar system to be built on Czech territory, if it is approved by parliament.

One senior Russian military officer recently suggested Moscow could use military force to destroy interceptor missiles to be stationed in Poland.

Pojar said he was confident the Czechs and Poles could rely on their fellow NATO members to come to their aid militarily in the event Russia attacked the missile shield, something he said Prague doubted would ever happen.

(AlertNet)

Well the Russian speaker sure knows what he's talking about! Cheney being the enemy of humanity, you got that right!

Yes the neo-cons wants McCain in office, because he's more extremist than Obama, who is still corrupt and a puppet. The man behind both is Brewzinski, the polish NSA former adviser, strongly anti-Russian and pro-NATO expansion.

About an attack on Iran, he may be right... but if Israel go ahead alone, they will have to lose pilots. First they had Georgia airfields, now they have nothing.. unless Georgia is put in NATO before Bush leaves office... then they can launch the strike from Georgia.

Anyway we'll see.

reply to post by Sky watcher

Truth about how the war started.

There's nothing to substantiate it . All we know is this Worms person , who was interviewed in this totten report , is in the employment of a Belgian Public relations company working for Saakashvili . He is employed to tell a public relations story beneficial to his client , he is unlikely to give an interview stating it was all Saakashvili's fault is he ? His story depends entirely on the Russians being held up at this bridge for 2 days after they emerged from the Roki tunnel before the shelling of Tskhinvali by the Georgians began, and that their (delayed by the bridge) presence was the cause for the Georgian offensive.

That means , contrary to all other reports, the Russians attacked on the 6th August , not the 8th . You find me any corroborative evidence of this or even a satellite image of any Russian tank columns entering SO before the 8th and /or this bridge they supposidly destroyed to keep the Russians delayed for the 2 days and the Russian army waiting there for it to be repaired all that time and then come back and claim this is the truth about how the war started. You think that Russians tank columns held up at some bridge for 2 days in SO prior to the events in Tskhinvali would have been missed by the MSM hungry to find anything that'll pin the blame on Russia ? One article by an obviously biased [ PR company] source doesn't equate to some new found oracle of knowledge and truth on the subject .

If the fabrication of this 2 day delay at some bridge in SO is taken away, the whole story falls down like the pack of lies it is . So, there is your mission , proof of this supposed Russian attack on the 6th and verification of this bombed bridge and the consequent delay for the Russian army by a reliable source.. not a belgian PR company, or this account is nothing but PR fiction .

And anyway , the Georgians themselves don't agree with it :

Georgia did not believe Russia would respond to its offensive in South Ossetia and was completely unprepared for the counter-attack, the deputy defence minister has admitted.

Batu Kutelia told the Financial Times that Georgia had made the decision to seize the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali despite the fact that its forces did not have enough anti-tank and air defences to protect themselves against the possibility of serious resistance.

The Georgian military felt there was only a low probability of a massive Russian counter-attack, despite the bloody way in which Russia destroyed Chechnya, on the other side of the Caucasus mountains, in two wars during the 1990s and the fact that separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia had Russian backing

FTimes

Here is our Mr Worms :

And as for his so called 'expert' with him during the Totten report interview , that is what PR companies do, they employ these 'sympathetic' experts to sell a product. Watch a few adverts .




[edit on 5-9-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by chips


Just a disclaimer to the person making that speech:

It is Zhirinovski. He pretty much represents the Russian radicals, and is widely viewed as a political clown. What he says should not be seen as Russia's official stance, and pretty much everything he says is guaranteed to be bull#. If you look at some of the past speeches he made (just look him up on wiki), you will understand what I am talking about.




As for that Worm guy and his theories - he provides no concrete proof, and pretty much relies on theories no doubt arising from his job as a professional propagandist.



There are many facts pointing against what he says, and many holes in his speculation.


For the start how were the Georgians able to capture Tskhnvalli and hold it for 3 days if the Russian troops were already there?

Why did Russia not achieve air supremacy as the first step, if it planned everything?

What about the footage of first Russian armor crossing the Roki tunnel on August 8th?

Why did Russia not achieve it's supposed objectives (such as taking Tbilisi or ousting Saakashvili) despite winning the military victory?

Why did the Black Sea fleet arrive only 3 days after the conflict started; surely Russia could have it nearby right away?

Why was the "Russian invasion plan" theory not presented in Western media (surely it would be a great PR blow to Russia)? U.S. government could not have not known about it (Georgia has UAVs constantly operating in the area for three weeks prior to the war)?

Why did Georgia's respond to the supposed Russian invasion by shelling Tskhinvalli of all places? Why not focus instead on shelling Russian military positions?

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Truth about how the war started.

michaeltotten.com...

And by truth you mean a theory backed up by no proof and only speculation. This story is not substantiated or backed up in any way so ever. We are supposed to believe this based on what exactly? On the notion that the person telling it is some kind of "expert"?


Just a few of the issues I have with what is stated on that site (not to mention that the author uses no sources of any kind):

So back to the 3rd of August. Kokoity announces women and children should leave. As it later turned out, he made all the civilians leave who were not fighting or did not have fighting capabilities.

False. "All" civilians didn't leave, not even the majority - as proved by footage of children, women, and elderly in Tskhinvali during the start of the war (see my other thread with a documentary Wounds of Tskhinvali). Civlians started to be evacuated because the situation was gradually becoming worse over the prior month, and by August 3rd there was constant gunfire exchange, and Georgian military positions were quickly being build-up.

On the 6th of August the shelling intensifies from Ossetian positions.

And proof of this is where? And what were they shelling with? Stones? Unlike Abkhazia - South Ossetia never had much heavy armor or artillery.

On the 6th of August they blew up our troops' four-wheel-drives, our pickups.

Where were those Georgian pickups at the time they were blown up? In Ossetian-controlled territory perhaps?

The Ossetians had a good position on the hill. They could see all our positions and our villages, and they started bombing.

Started bombing with what exactly? Surely military personell must have an idea what kind of equipment was used against them.

What the Georgian soldier pretty much say is that fighting gradually escalated. That is known well enough. But what they don't say is what the Georgians were doing. Ok - if we believe the Georgians, Ossetias were shooting at them and mining the roads. Meanwhile notice how nobody says what the Georgians were doing before this and during this stand-off.

“Yes,” he said. “I saw it. It was the Russian military airplanes. If they knew it was a Georgian village, they bombed all the houses. Many civilians were killed from this bombing.”

Praytell, how did a Georgian civlian tell Russian airplanes apart from Georgian airplanes? Even the soldiers from both sides in the conflict zone usually couldn't tell whose planes were in the air - both sides use identical equipment with few visible insignias.

The shelling intensifies during the night and there is, again, tit for tat, but this time with weapons coming from the South Ossetian side which are not allowed under the agreement.

So what weapons is he talking about? Why not provide examples, preferably backed up by proof?

All [Georgian] armor that was near Abkhazia starts moving, but they are tanks, they don't have tank transporters, so they move slowly. They don't make it back in time.

What about Georgian artillery that shelled Tskhinvali on the 7th? It was strategically dispersed around the city with careful preparation. Are we to believe that Georgians set up these positions in a matter of hours in response to S Ossetia's aggresion?

“On the evening of the 7th, the Ossetians launch an all-out barrage focused on Georgian villages, not on Georgian positions.

And Bush personally told me that he and Saakashvili like to torture Ossetian babies. WHERE THE HELL IS THE PROOF?

That evening, the 7th, the president gets information that a large Russian column is on the move.

Informed by who? Where was the column moving to? Why did it take 3 days to reach Tskhinvali? What was the column composed of?

Later that evening, somebody sees those vehicles emerging from the Roki tunnel [into Georgia from Russia].

Somebody sees those vehicles? Somebody saw Santa and the Easter Bunny getting it on. And I thought wikipedia was a mundane source of facts.

The first thing they did, and it happened at roughly the same time, they tried to get through [South Ossetian capital] Tskhinvali

Georgians had positions north of Tskhinvali, as shown on combat maps earlier. They had access to the Zorskay road north of the city, and could have easily went around the city if their goal was to block Russian troops.

And what about the shelling of Tskhinvali? Why does the author ignore the fact that Georgians shelled the city for nearly half a day, despite it having no major military presence?

The second thing they did, they dropped a team of paratroopers to destroy a bridge. They got wiped out, but first they managed to destroy the bridge and about 15 Russian vehicles.

WTF is this? Georgian paratroopers (?)? Destroyed 15 Russian vehicles? That seems like a pretty major battle, and somewhat unbelievable given. Why is it that there is no proof of this or news from this from any other sources?

They lived in a failed state, then there was the Rose Revolution – it wasn't perfect but, damn, now there's electricity, there's jobs

And before the Rose Revolution Georgians' lifestyles equated to cavemen? Please...





Plus what is with all the propaganda pictures spread throughout the article (if this can even be called an article)? Does the author expect that this propaganda bull# is somekind of proof of what he is saying? Why not show the footage and pictures to back up your claims? Perhaps not having any is a good reason?



Now I want to reiterate that I do not support Russia's actions in this war. Russia made many mistakes and behaved hypocritically. But to use Mr. Worm's fairy tales as anything more than theories and speculation - is just silly. This is a pure political spin, with a nicely laid out speech that is supposed to draw the reader in and make him interested. But it is so incredibly shalow that no factual referrences can be made from this article whatsoever.

news.bbc.co.uk...
Russian action spooks investors
I didn't know where else to put this, Russian offensive in Georgia has cost them big bucks $$

From external source:

Russian traders are nervous
After further falls on Friday, the Russian stock market has plunged more than 30% since the country's invasion of Georgia last month.
Investor confidence has been hit hard by the conflict.
Some international banks estimating that between up to $20bn (£11bn)in foreign capital has been pulled out of Russia in the last month alone.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by all2human


Yes Russian sources are all over this now as well. It appears as though this Russian leadership did not predict an economic hit to be this large (but they still predicted it). Of course a great deal of this is not caused by the actual war, but the stinkfest Europe and U.S. blew out of proportion.

But keep in mind another thing - while all this is taking place gas and oil prices are plunging. Russian economy and markets depends on the prices for these resources to a great degree. Arguably the Russian market crashes in the late 90's were in part caused by rapid decrease of energy resources prices. I think that at least a part of the economic slump described in that article can be attributed to this.


And while this large market decline seems substantial from the point of view of say U.S. or European stock markets, for Russia it is somewhat different. Remember that the Russian market nearly bottomed out in the late 90's, and took only 8 years to climb to where it is today. It is still very volatile, and the growth in recent years has sometimes exceeded 10%. So I think the market will rebound within 1-2 years, as the fears subside and optimism returns.

The setback is still dramatic though - and should be a lesson for Russian leadership in the future (on how to wage PR wars).

reply to post by maloy

I disagree with the western media blaming Russia soley for this conflict, and not even considering Georgia being guilty,it is all about money,power and resources? the bs of all these politicians makes me want to


libera Tuam mentem




[edit on 6-9-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by all2human


Since when does a population have more priority than profits and power? People are under the illusion that Western governments support them before corporate interests. The reality is the masses get only crumbs as long as they support corporate interests.

The West will not change as long as it remains largely compromised of a debtor class, who spend unconsciously, see destruction as entertainment, and are easily manipulated by those who control the flow of good and services. In a permanent war economy, the majority is deemed as expendable cannon fodder.




Corporatocracy - sourcewatch

"]'America's Outrageous War Economy!'
Pentagon can't find $2.3 trillion, wasting trillions on 'national defense'

There really is only one answer: Deep inside we love war. We want war. Need it. Relish it. Thrive on war. War is in our genes, deep in our DNA. War excites our economic brain. War drives our entrepreneurial spirit. War thrills the American soul. Oh just admit it, we have a love affair with war. We love "America's Outrageous War Economy."

Americans passively zone out playing video war games. We nod at 90-second news clips of Afghan war casualties and collateral damage in Georgia. We laugh at Jon Stewart's dark comedic news and Ben Stiller's new war spoof "Tropic Thunder" ... all the while silently, by default, we're cheering on our leaders as they aggressively expand "America's Outrageous War Economy," a relentless machine that needs a steady diet of war after war, feeding on itself, consuming our values, always on the edge of self-destruction.

Count on more wars...

Russian units raid Georgian airfields for use in Israeli strike against Iran – report

Israel was said to have used the two airfields to “conduct recon flights over southern Russia as well as into nearby Iran.” The US intelligence sources quoted by UPI reported that the Russian force also carried home other Israeli military equipment captured at the air bases.

www.debka.com...

Breaking:

Russian President Medvedev:

Events in South Ossetia show Russia is a 'nation to be reckoned with.'


- Sky TV (AP)

Russia accuses West of Georgia warship provocation

MOSCOW, Sept 6 (Reuters) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev accused the West on Saturday of acting provocatively in and around the Black Sea, where the United States is using warships to deliver humanitarian aid to Georgia.

"I wonder how they would feel if we now dispatched humanitarian assistance to the Caribbean, suffering from a hurricane, using our navy," Medvedev said, adding that a whole fleet had been dispatched to deliver the aid.

The United States has used warships to ferry relief supplies to Georgia after the brief but intense war with Russia in early August, in part to send a signal to Moscow.

Its biggest ship yet arrived on Friday. The USS Mount Whitney dropped anchor off Georgia's Russian-patrolled port of Poti.

NATO has also rejected talk of a buildup of its warships in the Black Sea, saying their recent presence in the region was part of routine exercises.

Russia has accused U.S. warships of rearming Tbilisi's defeated army, a charge dismissed as "ridiculous" by Washington.

Medvedev was speaking at the meeting of his advisory state council, which regularly meets and is comprised of Russian regional governors.

(AlertNet)

Originally posted by chips
Russia accuses West of Georgia warship provocation

Russia has accused U.S. warships of rearming Tbilisi's defeated army, a charge dismissed as "ridiculous" by Washington.

(AlertNet)

Ridiculous? Before this "aid" mission started, Pentagon Officials themselves said that they would help out the Georgian military! What a load of crock from Washington.

reply to post by maloy


Did you watch the video? You need realplayer to watch it, I forgot to mention that to you all. It explains how the Russians provoked Georgia. Condi even said days later that they knew Russia was going to attack just not when and never thought that Putin would be ruthless enough to do it during the Olympics.