Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

Originally posted by maloy


The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing? If you really know Timoshenko - then you know that she is not pro-anybody. She is a cunning businesswoman/politician/criminal who uses any opportunity to get ahead. She has no true allies in politics - just temporary "sidekicks". Her ultimate goal is to be elected as President so she can enact her economic policies. Kremlin does not consider her an ally of any kind. In fact Russia had a travel ban and an arrest warrant in her name for a long period of time for corruption and crime investigations.

Sure, she's cunning alright, which politician isn't. But the Ukraine joining NATO won't go down well with Russia.

So Russia has alot to gain by backing her, aslong as she terminates those NATO plans. One hand washes the other sorta thing. Besides, that's nothing new for Russia to do, just look at Ramzan Kadyrov.

U.S. 'stands in solidarity with people of Georgia': Cheney

VP's visit comes after $1-billion aid package announced

U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney arrived in Georgia on Thursday in a visit aimed at showing solidarity with the "courageous young democracy" following its recent conflict with Russia.

Cheney's visit comes just after the U.S. announced a $1 billion aid package for Georgia, which was overwhelmed in brief, yet fierce battles with Russian forces after its attempt to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Aug. 7.

Cheney told Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili at a joint press conference in the capital Tbilisi that his country can count on continue U.S. assistance and support.

"Americans are acutely conscious of the great trials your country has faced over the last four weeks and we stand in solidarity with the people of Georgia," Cheney said.

Cheney also decried Moscow's swift response to the Georgian action to move its forces deep into undisputed Georgian territory as "an illegitimate, unilateral attempt to change your country's borders by force, which has been universally condemned by the free world."

"Russia's actions have cast grave doubt on Russia's intentions and on its reliability as an international partner."

cbc

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Did you see this photo from that event?

Are they both wearing American flag badges?

I'm not sure if this has had a mention yet.

Two Estonian farms establish 'Soviet republic,' seek recognition

Two farms in north-east Estonia have joined forces to declare an independent "Soviet republic" and intend to seek Russia's recognition, a Russian communist organization said on Wednesday.

"We no longer want to live in bourgeois Estonia, where nobody cares about the common people...with raging unemployment and corruption, and where everything depends on NATO and the Americans," Russian communists from St Petersburg, who are assisting the 'republic,' quoted its founder, Andres Tamm, as saying.

en.rian.ru...

Of all of what's going on, that struck me as quite the novelty.

Originally posted by maloy

The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing? If you really know Timoshenko - then you know that she is not pro-anybody. She is a cunning businesswoman/politician/criminal who uses any opportunity to get ahead. She has no true allies in politics - just temporary "sidekicks". Her ultimate goal is to be elected as President so she can enact her economic policies. Kremlin does not consider her an ally of any kind. In fact Russia had a travel ban and an arrest warrant in her name for a long period of time for corruption and crime investigations.

I read that if there is an election those who supported Timoshenko will defect due to them believing she may be pro-Russian due to her aligning with the opposition and instead support Yuschenko.

If that may be the case then Timoskenko will lose her position in the government. Unless she's looking to join another party which I find unlikely.

Originally posted by maloy
Regarding Ukraine - there is major political instability there at the moment. However this is not some "coup" attempt by Russia. This is internal realignment of Ukrainian political parties that was a long time in the making.

Saying Russia is not playing any part in the political activities in Ukraine is stretching it. Russia has interests there even if Ukraine does not manufacture their missiles anymore.

The main asset Ukraine provides is a buffer from NATO and it would be in Russia's best interest to safeguard a pro-Russian government.

To imply that Russia does not or will not influence individuals is spreading propaganda. Let's not be naive here....

Russia wants its fleet to remain headquartered in Sevastopol beyond May 2017, when its $93-million-a-year lease from Ukraine is set to expire.

Ukraine, which hopes to join NATO within the next decade - a move adamantly opposed by Moscow - wants the Russian navy out of its country before the lease expires.

Predictably, the issue surfaces at least once each year - as it did Sunday, when Russia celebrated its Navy Day by firing a salute across Sevastopol's harbor, where Ukrainian battleships anchor beside their Russian counterparts like scowling next-door neighbors.

Source

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dismissed that argument in a sharply worded barb Tuesday, saying Russia's ships don't need any permission to use the port.

Source

Russian nationalists have begun agitating to reclaim Sevastopol and Crimea, although desire for such an action is far from a mainstream sentiment. The mayor of Moscow, Yuri Luzhkov, raised Ukrainian hackles in May when he called for Russia's western neighbor to return "what doesn't belong to it," The Associated Press reported.

Source

So ya.. Russia would never interfere in another countries politics...

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Willbert]

Yushchenko loyalists pull out of Ukraine coalition

4th Sept 08

KIEV, Ukraine: Lawmakers loyal to President Viktor Yushchenko have formally pulled out of Ukraine's governing coalition after the rival prime minister sided with the opposition to reduce his powers.

The loyalists' decision Thursday began a 40-day countdown for formation of a new coalition alliance or a new election to be called.

Yushchenko's allies have 10 days to change their minds.

Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko sided with opposition parties on Tuesday to pass a law trimming his powers and increasing hers.

Yushchenko called the move unconstitutional and ordered a new coalition formed or new parliamentary elections held.

www.iht.com...

Originally posted by Denied
reply to post by -Rugged Shark-

 

Did you see this photo from that event?

Are they both wearing American flag badges?

Its a bit hard to see.. but the Georgian president is not wearing a US flag... I can definitely see a red line horizontally...

U.S. flagship enters Black Sea


Source

I thought Turkey was to limit ships entering the strait.. not any ships but ships of certain class. Seeing as they let the Mount Whitey throught speaks volumes about Turkeys views and position on the region....

The Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits was a 1936 agreement that gives Turkey control over the Bosporus Straits and the Dardanelles and regulates military activity in the region. Signed on 20 July 1936, it permitted Turkey to remilitarise the Straits and imposed new restrictions on the passage of combatant vessels. It is still in force today, with some amendments.

The Convention gives Turkey full control over the Straits and guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime. It severely restricts the passage of non-Turkish military vessels and prohibits some types of warships, such as aircraft carriers, from passing through the Straits. The terms of the convention have been the source of controversy over the years, most notably concerning the Soviet Union's military access to the Mediterranean Sea.

Source

[edit on 4-9-2008 by Willbert]

reply to post by Willbert


Ahh yes he is wearing a Georgian flag.

I wonder what Cheney is wearing?

My posrt from another thread:

Russia does have a role in what is happening in Ukraine - but it is not what you may think. Here is a summary of what actually happened:


There are tree sides in Ukrainian politics:

1. pro-U.S./NATO Yuschenko.

2. pro-Western but largely independent Timoshenko

3. pro-Russian Party of Regions and allied opposition



Timoshenko's alliance with Yuschenko was always seen as temporary. She has different goals and ideals than he does. She also sees the Yanukovich and Party of Regions as opposition, and shares little with them. However to get to where she is she needed an alliance - and chose Yuschenko. Now Yuschenko centralized power, and she sees him as a threat. Her only choice to undermine his growing power is to ally with Yanukovich. This is only temporary, untill the next elections where she will run with her own agenda.


Now here is where Russia comes in: Timoshenko is a businesswoman first, and a politicians second. She has her hand in many international projects and companies, and benefits greatly from her enterprises. One of her umbrella energy companies recently entered a very lucrative deal with Russian oil/gas company for transport of energy to Ukraine and through Ukraine on to Europe. This deal became threatened when Yuschenko started cutting ties to Russia and outright threatening Russia and the status of the Black Sea Fleet. To prevent further damage, Timoshenko used this opportunity to quickly but quietly rally against Yuschenko - and to innitiate reforms meant to ease the impeachment process.




As you see business and economy won out, and so did Russia. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional in her party's reallignment. Now the Ukrainian Parliament is effectively in charge and has more power than the President. In fact it was the Parliament that blocked Yuschenko's recent decision to freeze the actions of the Black Sea Fleet for duration of the conflict in Georgia.

Yuschenko is now powerless. He only has the power to disolve the Parliament, and call for Parliamentary reelections - but that needs an approval of the Supreme Court. He was at odds with Parliament for sometime now, and already disolved it once. Regardless of the Court decision, my bet is that the Parliament will not give-in. This is a start of a major power struggle. Obviously both Russia and U.S. have a stake. But either way - Yuschenko does not have much time before he is gone.




As for Timoshenko - she has so far not stated anything pro-Russian or voiced any change in her idealogy. In fact her strategy is to lay low - and not to criticize Russia or the West. As someone suggested - her voters will not leave to Yuschenko's side - because there is more to their policies than just being pro-Russia or pro-U.S. Timoshenko has a more solid plan to rebuild Ukrainian economy and move closer to joining EU, and she will likely build her campaign around this. Yuschenko's campaign is reduced to yelling "vote for me I am with the U.S.". This time around people won't buy it.

reply to post by Willbert


Actually he is wearing a Georgian flag.

reply to post by Willbert


The Mount Whitney is not an aircaft carrier, therefore she is allowed to pass through the Straights.

NATO only has one little problem with the Montreaux convention, they're only allowed to send one ship at a time through the Straights, unless ships are used from countries at the Black Sea, Turkey for example.

Georgia war boosts Medvedev's status

Russia's conflict with Georgia has helped President Dmitry Medvedev emerge from the shadow of his mentor Vladimir Putin by letting the soft-spoken lawyer assume the mantle of wartime leader.

Medvedev's problem now is that the international isolation looming over Russia for sending troops and tanks into Georgia could drown out his liberal agenda of opening up the economy to the outside world, analysts say.

Reuters

Originally posted by -Rugged Shark-
reply to post by Willbert

 

The Mount Whitney is not an aircaft carrier, therefore she is allowed to pass through the Straights.

NATO only has one little problem with the Montreaux convention, they're only allowed to send one ship at a time through the Straights, unless ships are used from countries at the Black Sea, Turkey for example.

Without seeing the contract in full for specifics... they do say "types" of ships including aircraft carriers... as to the types, this eludes me presently.

Originally posted by maloy
reply to post by Willbert

 

Actually he is wearing a Georgian flag.

I already came to that conclusion.. I was replying to someone elses inquiry.

reply to post by Willbert


I don't think the convention mentions specificly any types of ships. But it does mention tonnage of ships.

The Convention applies specific individual and aggregate tonnage and numbers limits. These limitations effectively preclude the transit of capital ships and submarines of non-Black Sea powers through the Straits, unless exempted under Article 17 (see below).

Warships of non-Black Sea powers may not remain in the Black Sea longer than 21 days. CAPital ships of Black Sea powers may transit the straits provided that they do so in accordance with the Convention.

Article 17 of the Convention permits a naval force of any tonnage or composition to pay a courtesy visit of limited duration to a port in the straits, at the invitation of the Turkish Government. In such instances, the tonnage and numbers limitations of the Convention do not apply.

Naval auxiliary vessels specifically designed for the carriage of fuel, liquid or non-liquid, are not subject to the tonnage limitations or the provisions regarding notification. They are subject to other provisions regarding the transit of warships.

In time of war, if Turkey is not a belligerent, the passage of warships of non-belligerent states is subject to the same constraints as in peacetime. Turkey may, however, restrict the transit of belligerent warships. If Turkey is a belligerent or should Turkey feel that she is threatened by imminent danger of war, warship transit through the straits shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish Government.

source

Russia may suspend support to NATO's Afghanistan operations

4th Sept 08

Brussels, Sep 4 (RIA Novosti) Russia's envoy to the NATO has said that Moscow may suspend cooperation with the military alliance on Afghanistan over the recent Georgia crisis.

Speaking at a news conference at NATO headquarters in Brussels late Wednesday, ambassador Dmitry Rogozin said, 'Future cooperation (in Afghanistan) will depend on the alliance's position in the Caucasus crisis'.

'We are not satisfied either with NATO's words or actions,' he said.

Russia has already suspended all peacekeeping operations with NATO for at least six months and has frozen its participation in NATO's Partnership for Peace programme.

Rogozin said that Moscow so far had decided to continue supporting NATO operations in Afghanistan only because Russia was concerned by the worsening military and political situation in the country amid a rise in extremism and drug production.

Moscow had earlier agreed to allow non-lethal goods for NATO troops in Afghanistan to pass through Russian territory.

story.argentinastar.com...

en.rian.ru...

Originally posted by Willbert
Without seeing the contract in full for specifics... they do say "types" of ships including aircraft carriers... as to the types, this eludes me presently.

Here you have it, the full text of the Montreux Convention.

I think it may be outdated in what relates to types of ships, but tonnage still applies.

Bush intends to punish Moscow for invading Georgia

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush is poised to punish Moscow for its invasion of Georgia by canceling a once-celebrated deal for civilian nuclear cooperation between the U.S. and Russia.

With relations between the two nations in a nearly Cold War-like freeze over Russia's actions against its neighbor last month, planning is under way at the White House for the largely symbolic move by Bush, according to senior administration officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision was not yet final. However, the decision could come quickly, within days at the most.

(AP)


US Vice President in Ukraine

U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney has arrived in Ukraine as part of a tour of several former Soviet republics, amid an escalating standoff with Russia over its operations in Georgia.

Cheney flew to Kiev from Tbilisi, where he called Russia's recent military action in Georgia an "illegitimate, unilateral attempt" to change the country's borders by force. He said Russia's actions have cast doubt on its intentions and its reliability as an international partner.

The vice president also said the United States is committed to eventually bringing Georgia into NATO. His comments came after talks with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

(voanews.com)