War in Georgia

Interesting.

Obviously timed to not occur before the US finished a major exercise in the area, would have been bad business to attack while the US was training with the GAF!

As far as I've understood from open source stuff the Russians were staging 300+ tanks and troops on the border as well as other elements.

I think the offensive operations (the shelling of South Ossetia) the GAF took immediately following the bulk of the US departure was a calculated move to try and halt the pending invasion by Russia, bolstered not by the training they received but the support that was given by the US. Russia also knew that it would not be wise to attack while over a 1000 US Military were on location. But I feel that they also planned to attack as soon as the US left.

OK here:

Russian tanks and troops surged into Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia province on Friday to repel a Georgian offensive to reclaim the region amid fighting said to have left hundreds dead.

afp.google.com...

Violence has spiraled across Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia, prompting deep concerns over the fate of the province's 75,000 residents.

Georgian forces overnight began pounding the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, in a large-scale operation to regain control of the Moscow-backed separatist region. Both sides accuse each other of initiating the hostilities.

The offensive -- which followed days of renewed clashes -- sparked a furious reaction from Russia, which sent troops, military aircraft, and tanks to repel Georgian forces.

www.reliefweb.int...

"Huge numbers of South Ossetia residents are leaving for Russian territory," he said. "In principle those who want to leave, leave -- and those who don't stay and pray that nothing terrible happens to them."

I wonder, if Russia is the bad guy then why are the civilians from S.O. running to Russia to save their lives?

reply to post by maloy
Thanks Maloy I appreciate the opinion and I agree, the loss of transport or
personnel at the hands of Russian troops would indeed be bad. It just has a dreadful sound to it. This is fluid right now and moving fast. IMO scalation will be limited hopefully but unfortunately imminent.

Originally posted by gnothiseauton
I wonder, if Russia is the bad guy then why are the civilians from S.O. running to Russia to save their lives?

Oh geeze, I dont know:

-------------Georgia---------Russia
Population--4.6 million-----140 million
Army-------18,000----------1,037,000
Tanks------128--------------23,000
Fighter jets--9---------------1,736

reply to post by Reddupo


Apparently I need to make it as clear as it gets. S.O. civilians are running FROM Georgians. They are relying on Russia to save them from the attacks from Georgia.

Originally posted by Reddupo
Oh geeze, I dont know:

-------------Georgia---------Russia
Population--4.6 million-----140 million
Army-------18,000----------1,037,000
Tanks------128--------------23,000
Fighter jets--9---------------1,736

Little dogs are known to be very hyperactive, and very provocational when they come in contact with a large dog that can easily crush them.

Saakashvilli is goddamn mutt, who is waging war for himself and not for the nation he is supposed to represent. His hopes were to provoke an all out attack by Russia, and that U.S. would step in an help Georgia. He did not predict the limited and precise response by Russia. Now U.S. is unlikely to come to his aid.

Saaka's propaganda machine is now in full swing, hoping to keep the Georgian population under control and keep them from rising up against him. He just endangered 4.6 million of his peopl. Have no doubt the scumbag will pay for it.

Georgia has become a laughing stock over this, their leaders on tv framing the whole series of events in a blatant blanket of lies . Nato will never touch them with their current leadership after this , no chance of joining now for them .

In Georgia , they are rounding up men between 18-50 press gang style to fight Russia. Men are being hidden by their families, taking to hiding in the countryside to avoid recruitment .

Saakashvili's days are numbered .



[edit on 8-8-2008 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

yes Georgia is preparing for the worst. They are preparing to fight to protect their sovereignty and their borders against a nation who previously occupied them. This includes South Ossetia. However, I haven't heard confirmation of the Georgia literally rounding up men between the ages of 18-50 "gang style". I'm not saying that Georgia is completely in the right in this situation, I just don't see how people can blame Georgia completely without knowing all of the facts. Everything I have heard has been hearsay

Georgia was not the first of the two countries to "flex its muscles" in regards to South Ossetia

[edit on 8-8-2008 by unbelievable]

Well you probably will hear it in a few days , I am just trying to do you a favor by passing on the tv news as we hear it outside of the usa , you know .. without the usual block of intellectual content in favor of the latest installment of paris hilton exploits.

Why do people feel the need to blame the US for all of the problems in Europe. These problems were around before the US had an interest in the area. These tensions are because of the Soviet Unions rule in the regions before. Come on people lets use some brains before we accuse the US for actions that we had no control over. And dont try to make a conspiracy out of it linking iran and russia together. Stop trying to find a reason to blame the US. If things turn out to be the US's fault then blame them all you want.

Also if the united states enters the war and russia does use their nuclear arsenal, countries around the world will react to this and and invade russia also. So their likely will not be a nuclear outbreak because it is too risky for Russia. I also doubt that Russia would want a war with the US knowing their economic state as of now, they are close enough as it is to a depressive economy im sure the last thing they would risk is a World war 3 or more a less fighting with Georgia.

Wasn't this scenario part of the first Ghost Recon???

Slackers, get off your butts and get to the recruiters!!

Now, on a more serious note, most of my friends that had contact with Georgians in Iraq said they were good people, and they really hated the Russians.

reply to post by maloy


you damn sure know your politics maloy...I am in full agreement with your views.I was reading on yahoo earlier that GW is in support of georgia on this!!shows what an idiot the guy really is afterall.IMO georgia has sealed its own fate by starting this war,what did they expect...russia to sit back and watch them take this area with force.I think georgia will now lose all western support apart from US support however.I hope the russians get this over with as quickly as possible (and pray for few innocent casualties).I have a question for you aswell,is it possible for russia to take back georgia or are the russians not interested in reclaiming the ex soviet states?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Also if the united states enters the war and russia does use their nuclear arsenal, countries around the world will react to this and and invade russia also.

Fortunately the world is not quite so naive to believe the Russians would use a nuclear weapon so indiscriminately. Not sure if you have realized , but Russia is seen as a far more stable nation than the USA these days . Most people would be thinking what their nation would do if USA started to launch nukes .

Yes, Russia with all of its political and economic stability.
I wonder how Medvedev will be remembered now that oil is plummeting, and Putin, taking reigns of the government again has begun a Yukos-style attack on the countries mining operations.

The best Georgia can really hope for is to give Russia a bloody nose and hope it stops caring about the ordeal -- The loss of five(?) jets certainly helps accomplish that. Now let's see if they can begin hitting bombers. [Assuming an entirely defensive battle.]

Anyone have a synopsis on Georgian anti-air, and anti-ship capability?
I kept looking for anything aside from Hawk missiles that they've been using and very little has shown up, even at Global Security.

Originally posted by defcon2
I was reading on yahoo earlier that GW is in support of georgia on this!!shows what an idiot the guy really is afterall

Well George Bush was the key supporter of Saakashvilli since the coup that ousted the elected president Shevarnadze. You could call Saakashvilli's government Pentagon's little project. After all Saaka studied in the U.S., and I wouldn't be surprised if he has ties to U.S. intelligence. Of course Bush supports this aggression by Georgia. U.S. has been arming and training Georgian troops for three years now. Time to see if the training has paid off. U.S. spend hundreds of millions of dollars on the Georgia project - someone in DC will be sad to see Saaka's regime go up in flames.

Originally posted by defcon2
I think georgia will now lose all western support apart from US support however.

Well it's not like Georgia has much foreign support other than U.S. these days. The only supporters of Georgia are other U.S. puppets - Uschenko in Ukraine and the Baltics. Without U.S. Saakashvilli would be long gone.

Originally posted by defcon2
I hope the russians get this over with as quickly as possible (and pray for few innocent casualties).

No conflict in the Caucasus so far has seen a quick end to hostilities - and there has been nearly a dozen conflicts. This will not see a quick resolution. Even if shooting ends, the situation will remain more tense than ever before. Then there is another break-away republic - Abkhazia - in question.

Originally posted by defcon2
I have a question for you aswell,is it possible for russia to take back georgia or are the russians not interested in reclaiming the ex soviet states?

Russia does not need Georgia, and stands nothing to gain from occupying Georgia. That is why I call any rumors of Russia invading all of Georgia to be bs. Anyone who knows relation between the two knows well enough that Russia has no interest in invading Georgia.

Georgia is a sovereign country, and Georgian people deserve to be sovereign - make no mistake about it. However the country is being run very recklessly, but even then their independence is not in question. What could happen is a political coup with Russia backing the opposition party. So far Georgia had three Presidents, each one except for the first - Gamzakhurdia - coming to power through a coup. Both Gamzakhurdia and Shevarnadze had countless assassination attempts against them, but managed to keep some stability.

I suspect Saakashvilli survived at least a few assassination attempts, but they went unreported. He has one of the largest bodyguard forces of any national president.

Originally posted by Iblis
Yes, Russia with all of its political and economic stability.

As opposed to what - the U.S. economic stability? Kind of ignorant for Americans to mention this as a weakness for Russia. And you must not have seen Russia's GDP growth in the last 5 years.

Originally posted by Iblis
I wonder how Medvedev will be remembered now that oil is plummeting, and Putin, taking reigns of the government again has begun a Yukos-style attack on the countries mining operations.

What mining operations? In Georgia? What are you talking about. What does Putin's ousting of the oligarchs from power has to do with Georgia attacking the peacekeeping force in S. Ossetia?

And how is Putin taking reigns. He is in Beijing right now, while Medvedev is working around the clock to resolve the situation in Moscow. So far all official Russian statements have came from Medvedev.

Originally posted by Iblis
The best Georgia can really hope for is to give Russia a bloody nose

All Georgia can hope for is that Saakashvilli withdraws from S. Ossetia or is ousted by a coup. All Saakashvilli can hope for is that he will have enough time to pack and evacuate to the U.S embassy.

Originally posted by Iblis
The loss of five(?) jets certainly helps accomplish that.

What jets would that be. There have been no confirmed reports of any downed jets. Russia is not reporting anything. Surely Georgia can produce some footage since the jets are reportedly shot down over their territory. And since when did two claimed jets become five?

Originally posted by Iblis
Now let's see if they can begin hitting bombers. [Assuming an entirely defensive battle.]

Wow. When did bombers get involved in this? Or do you mean that Georgia will hit bombers in bases near Moscow? Common - if you are going to make claims speculate at least make informed claims.

Originally posted by Iblis
Anyone have a synopsis on Georgian anti-air, and anti-ship capability?

Yeah - Saakashvilli is about to claim that victorious brave Georgian AA's shot down all Russian bombers and figters which were on the way to obliterate Tbilisi and are now busy liquidating the wreckages.

In reality both of these are of little threat to Russia, and be easily eliminated by Russian cruise missiles.

Originally posted by Iblis
I kept looking for anything aside from Hawk missiles that they've been using and very little has shown up, even at Global Security.

Who knows maybe they received a nice package from Pentagon a few days before they started the war. Wouldn't surprise me. Maybe you should check the Pentagons' balance sheets instead of Global Security.

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by gnothiseauton
I wonder, if Russia is the bad guy then why are the civilians from S.O. running to Russia to save their lives?

Oh geeze, I dont know:

-------------Georgia---------Russia
Population--4.6 million-----140 million
Army-------18,000----------1,037,000
Tanks------128--------------23,000
Fighter jets--9---------------1,736

Just because Georgia is smaller, does not make it innocent...

And they don't have 9 jets anymore, one got shot down. Down to 8 lol..

The Georgian President has demanded the US return 2,000 Georgian troops from Iraq (they don't have planes to fly them home, they are stranded in the desert ..) .. Which is I think 6%+ of their army .. mm .. shoulda thought about returning the troops before you start an offensive..

There are two other break away regions of Georgia that side with Russia, I would honestly not be surprised to see both states attack Georgia from the North West and South ..

[edit on 8/8/2008 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by maloy

Many thanks for your informative reply..I didnt think russia would be interested in occupying georgia or rebuilding the soviet union,its nice to have this confirmed.....people tend to forget(including me)that russia is not a commy country anymore its a democracy now (and in some cases more democratic than we got over here in the west
:loli was watching a good russian news channel earlier which a politician said that georgia could have used its money to become more democratic and build its infrastructure(hospitals,jobs etc,etc)instead under their president they increased their military spending from 30million dollars to a billion dollars and are buying from the US.(the US are good at funding other peoples wars,people forget that GWB's grandfather was a NAZI funder and supporter when the majority of the US were against the NAZIs and could'nt wait to get involved in WW2 and help the allies)Im sure you are following this from alot of good news sources but you should check this channel out on freetube,it's from the russians POV its called Russia Today freetube.110mb.com... PS it has english commentary.Again TY for your informative Reply,this is a very informative thread

[edit on 8-8-2008 by defcon2]

i. Please do not assume I am American. That's not only ignorant, but offensive that anyone considering your viewpoint as suspect must be of that particular nationality.

ii. Mechel. Please research before mocking my discussion. Furthermore, it was obviously a direct support to my 'economic stability' topic, as they were in the same paragraph. The fact is, Russia is certainly not a paragon of stability in its present state, and Mr. Putin is driving it into the Earth when it might otherwise flourish -- It's even choking the oil industry, one of the few assets keeping the country in a good place.

iii. Preferably, all would happen.
Militarily, Georgia has no hope against the Russian forces. As said, a bloody-nose would be best.
And as you said, certain leaders would best be ousted and evacuated before they are killed. At-least for their sake.

iv. Five was mentioned earlier in this topic.
www.liveleak.com...
[It was later observed that this was a Russian plane. Incorrect title.]

v. I'd request you start applying basic logic and research to your responses to me. To be responded with ridicule and insults is harsh, especially when unfounded.

My discussion about bombers was regarding the bloody nose. Perhaps Russia would begin bombing with bombers, as opposed to the S-series? I wouldn't really know. It wasn't a realistic observation anyhow, but merely a point.


vi. Your response to my anti-air claim is pretty pathetic. Get your obnoxious bigotry out of here. I asked for a factual response, and you respond with drivel. It's one thing to be offensive to me, another to hijack my post.


vii. Grow up.