War in Georgia

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by maloy
Russia is invading Georgia? Really? Proof? All I see on the news are Russian peacekeepers moving into S.Ossetian capital by request of S.Ossetian government to prevent ethnical cleansing.

...South Ossetia is part of Georgia.

Ok but U.S. gives Kosovo back to Serbia. Deal? If no deal with Kosovo U.S. and its allies can sit down, STFU, and watch the fireworks. Granting Kosovo independence opened the pandora's box. You opened the box, you ponder who owns what now.

South Ossetia is no more a part of Georgia than Kosovo and Respublika Srpska is part of Serbia.

Plus, Russia never wanted South Ossetia's complete independence. Russia wanted to keep the ceasefire that was in place before Georgia attacked.

reply to post by Fulcrum29


My dear boy, I hope that wasn't aimed at me because I am certainly not a Zionist and I am not fatherless either

Originally posted by I3LiP
reply to post by bruxfain

 

...

Seriously dude. I understand what you are saying about the historical and ethnic ties SO has to Russia, but the point remains, SO is still internationally recognised as a region of Georgia, it is NOT considered a seperate state to the UN.

Regardless of any emotional whining thats flying about the issue, Russia HAS committed an act of war against Georgia whether justified or not.

de jure, SO is part of Georgia. de facto, SO is a Russian Republic. That's why there is a fight. But Georgia lost that fight the moment they sent the military to the region. Saakashvili is a young man, with a dim future.

reply to post by bruxfain

the world is full of plots; islamic among them. since I am not sitting in the room with putin or saakashvili all I can do is make up scenarios. otherwise known as uncovering conspiracies, the basic premise of this website.

Indeed,it's just that the way you put it is like you consider it as a fact.

maybe i am wrong, but south ossetia is not georgia. if it were, then why does georgia have to enforce the georgian constitution? if Russia and georgia share religion, then why are they fighting, right now? there's something that's going on that is obviously obscured from sight.

Like another user said in an earlier page,for land.


I think we all know that Saakashvili was expecting to be backed up in this.I really doubt that he will though.

Originally posted by JSR
i wonder if that flight had a political opposition leader on it, willing to cut a deal with russia.

The opposition that hasn't been yet arrested by Saakashvilli's regime, won't leave the country at a deciding moment. If anything this is time for them to act within Georgia.

Originally posted by JSR
maybe russia just secured the georgian state away from the westen infulence. saw thier chance and is now going to take it.

Depends on how quickly Saaka's regime collapses. The cracks started long before this war, and the conflict might well crush what credibility he has left.

Originally posted by JSR
i read on another forum that russia will be going into tbillis and taking out georgian millitary.

That's unlikely specualtion. Russia will remain within South Ossetia, and carry out limited air strikes against the Georgian military.

Originally posted by JSR
and putting the pres. up on war crimes for the shelling of that town that killed 1000+ ( of course, dont know if any of that is true )

No one knows what's true yet. We are waiting for Russian contingent to enter Tskhinvali.

reply to post by infinite


Can we please retain a civilised conversation here without resorting to personal attacks in order to bully your opinions across.

I UNDERSTAND the history behind the region of the area, I understand how Georgia's actions are provocative and I understand how their President is a war mongering idiot.

THE POINT IS:

Instead of pursuing a peaceful means to resolve the situation Russia has turned to violence and invaded another member of the UN.


Can you honestly tell me you don't think the UN is a worthwhile organisation that helps to promote peace and you think that these disputes should be settled with shooting each other? If Russia was being a responsible member of the UN it would have discussed the issue with them BEFORE sending in troops.

Originally posted by maloy
Granting Kosovo independence opened the pandora's box.

Yup...

Thank BJClinton and Gen. Wesly Clark for that one...


AT this point, the US MAJOR media is TOTALY ignoring this...

So, at best we are getting limited news... here before anywhere...

I have no freakin idea whats going on over there... so, time to look at some maps...

[edit on 8/8/2008 by TKainZero]

reply to post by infinite


As far as i understand - and my info comes from wikipedia - South Osetia was part of Georgia and was annexed by Russian empire together with Georgia. This of course could be wrong due to wiki factor, if you have correct source i will appreciate if you point me in its direction.

Originally posted by I3LiP
Instead of pursuing a peaceful means to resolve the situation Russia has turned to violence and invaded another member of the UN.

No Russia has resorted to protecting ethnical Russians in a breakaway autonomous province of South Ossetia. Georgia started the artillery shelling in the midst of peace talks, and Georgian troops entered prepared to ethnically cleanse the area.

In addition to this 10 Russian peacekeepers were murdered during ceasefire.

What peaceful means are there left? Russia did the only thing it could do to protect the people who appealed for help.

Originally posted by I3LiP
Can you honestly tell me you don't think the UN is a worthwhile organisation that helps to promote peace and you think that these disputes should be settled with shooting each other?

UN is a worldwide joke. That and a waste of money.

Originally posted by I3LiP
If Russia was being a responsible member of the UN it would have discussed the issue with them BEFORE sending in troops.

No decision can be reached in the UN. U.S. and U.K. will take Georgia's side - thats guaranteed.

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


NATO on highest alert since 9-11. Germany and Poland are moving forces into postion. This is going to explode. JK I think you are right.

reply to post by I3LiP


Firstly, I did not post insults. Just merely made reference to someone's character. Ignorance is not needed in a discussion about war.

As for ;

Instead of pursuing a peaceful means to resolve the situation Russia has turned to violence and invaded another member of the UN.

The War on Terror didn't involve knocking on doors now did it? No, Russia has every right to defend itself - it was carrying out a peacekeeping mission in South Ossetia (which is recognised by the UN, just as EU peacekeeping missions are.)

The "United Nations" is a divided partisan organisation in which nothing gets solved. It ignored South Ossetia for a while, Russia warned that a war could occur - especially when Georgia started making provocative acts.

Georgia's gamble was Russia wouldn't react - but it has. Their army never planned a "what if" if Russia threw a punch.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by infinite]

Saakashvilli have been on CNN saying that the good old bad russians are bombing them and they need help!

CNN, always for democracy right... at least they show who they support... a war criminal and a dictator. Wouldn't be the first time.

reply to post by Vitchilo


The bastard's days are numbered. It's not the Russians he needs to fear, he will be taken down by his own people. Shevarnadze was far wiser, more experienced, and an overall better politician and negotiator. U.S. got rid of the old timer and replaced him with a hotheaded punk with # for brains.

Originally posted by maloy
Ok but U.S. gives Kosovo back to Serbia. Deal? If no deal with Kosovo U.S. and its allies can sit down, STFU, and watch the fireworks. Granting Kosovo independence opened the pandora's box. You opened the box, you ponder who owns what now.

South Ossetia is no more a part of Georgia than Kosovo and Respublika Srpska is part of Serbia.

Plus, Russia never wanted South Ossetia's complete independence. Russia wanted to keep the ceasefire that was in place before Georgia attacked.

I don't get how this has anything to do with blaming the United States for Georgia deciding to try and reclaim control of a rebellious area (not to say that South Ossetia doesn't have the right to be independent, I'm not judging them), and for Russia deciding to go beyond its borders and invade Georgia.

I don't how Kosovo has anything to do with this. That was another war the United States ended up getting involved in for no good reason.



By the way, am I the only one who thinks that Infinite's juvinile attack on me came from out of the blue? Where'd that come from? (This was actually removed by a moderator)

[edit on 8-8-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by infinite


I have never once condoned the War on Terror.

Russia has already begun to bomb targets OUTSIDE of SO clearly showing they are not merely on a peacekeeping mission.

Russia also fears Georgia joining NATO and is doing everything it can to prevent the process. Nevermind the fact that the seperatist factions within Georgia are quite clearly funded and supplied by the Russian government who has been doing little short of inciting the revolts.

How can people possibly blame Georgia for this "war." South Osetia was in fact part of Georgia. Thus, they can send troops in there. They are a sovereign nation that has the right to protect their borders. If the Russians send in peacekeepers to protect rebellious factions inside Georgia, then that is at the risk of the peacekeepers. Russia has no right to invade South Osetia, regardless of the nationalities of the citizens. The fact of the matter is that South Osetia is part of Georgia, so the Georgian government has the right to protect its assets and land.

The BBC World Services has just reported

that bombing of southern ports is taking place,

And also that Air Strikes have taken place on a "key Strategic" oil pieline. That being the one that Bush and Co have placed there to bypass the Russian Pipelines to Europe.
...............................................................................................................

My take on this:

If as has happened in recent years, Russia now cuts off its supply to Europe or cuts it back, most of Europe may wake up Monday morning with very little gas to undergo usual economic activities.

$200 dollars a barrel of oil soon some have said, Well now a little jiggle a tad further south of This area in the Persian Gulf could take it much higher than that, with this new dynamic.

Regards,

Elf

If I was the Georgian President, and I knew that Russia was about to control all of South Osetia, I would attempt to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible along with the infrastructure of the runaway province

Originally posted by unbelievable
If I was the Georgian President, and I knew that Russia was about to control all of South Osetia, I would attempt to kill as many Russian soldiers as possible along with the infrastructure of the runaway province

If you were Georgian President and you did all that, you would be deposed by your own people and your head would be paraded in the streets on a stake.

You would make a great politician... in Africa.